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Old 12th May 2011, 21:20   #196
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

I am not complaining much as I am okay with manual focussing and acquiring old fast lenses for cheap . This might be the upgrade body I have been waiting for.
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Old 12th May 2011, 23:26   #197
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
So why no fast lenses yet on m4/3 and other EVIL cams?
I think its because its a new format, geared towards entry level. Entry level people rarely buy very expensive lenses, so F2.8 lenses may have a few takers.
With a 2x crop, shouldn't the lenses be comparatively cheaper to make as well, for the same FOV ? So does the design/infrastructure cost negate any materials cost savings due to the smaller lenses requiring much less glass/plastic/metal ?

There are Olympus DSLRs aimed at professional photographers, so fast lenses very well must exist, if not in abundance as with Canikon.

EVIL market is likely to get more fractured, the Nikon EVIL is said to be 2.6x crop , so there will be 2x ( Oly , Panasonic ) , 2.6x ( Nikon ), 1.5x ( Sony ) , 5-6x ( Pentax, whose EVIL line is expected to be 1/2.3" sensors ), and no news of Canon EVILs.
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Old 12th May 2011, 23:40   #198
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by Ricci View Post
There are Olympus DSLRs aimed at professional photographers, so fast lenses very well must exist, if not in abundance as with Canikon.
Well, they do exist. Good enough to make you go weak in the knee. But they have not been serious about their m4/3 lens offerings.

Zuiko Digital Lenses
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Old 13th May 2011, 00:03   #199
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

m4/3 lenses range is different from the 4/3 range. It makes sense, the lack of mirror clearance so the rear element can be closer, and thus smaller lenses. Prices aren't all that low as I'd expect , some are similar to APS-C Canikon prices. What doesn't make sense is big lenses on small bodies, contradicts the very point of EVIL, at those sizes it's almost as big as DSLR+big lens. Maybe I'll have a different opinion after holding one in hand.
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Old 13th May 2011, 01:17   #200
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

I haven't seen anyone talking about Panasonic GH2 or its followup model. If anyone goes to DPReview.com and compares the output with D7000 or Canon 550D, it is pretty close until ISO 2000. It's only higher ISO where it looses the plot. Apart from that, there is

Panasonic Lumix 14mm f/2.5 G Aspherical Lens for Micro Four Thirds Interchangeable Lens Cameras

Panasonic LUMIX G 20mm f/1.7 Aspherical Pancake Lens for Micro Four Thirds Interchangeable Lens Cameras

and

Amazon.com: Panasonic 7-14mm f/4.0 Micro Four Thirds Lens for Panasonic Digital SLR Cameras: Camera & Photo

How come we are never interested in Panasonic cameras who are making the best of EVIL so far.
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Old 13th May 2011, 05:32   #201
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Tried yesterday Samsung NX-100 , Camera is really good in hands and one button on the lens to control body makes a lot of sense.

But still not for India as support is too low.
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Old 13th May 2011, 12:30   #202
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I have a couple of questions:
1. Is EVIL the official name for these "mirrorless" cameras? Nobody seems to understand when I mention EVIL but seem to catch on the mirrorless term better!

2. Have they started releasing adaptors or other accessories so that we can use our existing canikon lenses on them?
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Old 13th May 2011, 12:35   #203
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajman28 View Post
I have a couple of questions:
1. Is EVIL the official name for these "mirrorless" cameras? Nobody seems to understand when I mention EVIL but seem to catch on the mirrorless term better!
Nope. Infact dpreview,com ran a poll some time back asking people to suggest names. I guess EVIL has caught on because of some *cough* *cough* "EVIL" companies leading the brigade
Quote:
2. Have they started releasing adaptors or other accessories so that we can use our existing canikon lenses on them?
Very hard to find. due to smaller sensor size of most(if not all) EVIL cameras, it may be very difficult.
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Old 13th May 2011, 12:41   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajman28 View Post
1. Is EVIL the official name for these "mirrorless" cameras? Nobody seems to understand when I mention EVIL but seem to catch on the mirrorless term better!
I guess none of the camera makers like that name, because it is EVIL! But it is a generic name coined by somebody long back, eventually a less evil name like mirrorless may catch on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajman28 View Post
2. Have they started releasing adaptors or other accessories so that we can use our existing canikon lenses on them?
Yes, as of now, adopters are available for all platforms. But here is the trouble. The AF is either simply not available or not optimal. Most dSLRs use Phase Detection AF, while EVIL cameras use contrast detection AF. In my case mating a 4/3 lens on E-PL1 doesn't work optimally thanks to this difference. Therefore, I haven't bothered with getting an adopter myself. No point connecting a big lens to a tiny body and suffer AF problems. People who are fine with manual focus should be OK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Very hard to find. due to smaller sensor size of most(if not all) EVIL cameras, it may be very difficult.
Huh, it is not sensor size, but flange distance. Since m/43 has very small flange distance, it can accept any family lens using adopters.

Flange focal distance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Actually, even 4/3 can accept any Canon or Nikon lens with adopter.

Last edited by Samurai : 13th May 2011 at 12:54.
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Old 13th May 2011, 13:06   #205
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Thanks tsk and samurai.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai
Most dSLRs use Phase Detection AF, while EVIL cameras use contrast detection AF.
Didn't catch you on this one. What are these detection methods?
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Old 13th May 2011, 14:42   #206
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajman28 View Post
Thanks tsk and samurai.



Didn't catch you on this one. What are these detection methods?
Autofocus = Autofocus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contrast based focusing is done on the basis that when properly focused - the image (actually the small part of image) will have the best contrast.
Not focused = blurred
Focused = sharp
This is how humans do manual focusing.

So the lens moves in and out trying to focus.
This is done by all Point and shoot cams.
And is usually slow in low light. (because of low contrast even at focused position)

Phase detect is more like rangefinding operation where the cam "knows" how far away the subject (by determining phase difference between sensors) is and consequently moves the lens to focus at that distance.
This is very fast.

However, the contrast based focus can be done by any lens (actually any lens that the camera body can move).

Last edited by alpha1 : 13th May 2011 at 14:44.
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Old 13th May 2011, 20:41   #207
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I guess none of the camera makers like that name, because it is EVIL! But it is a generic name coined by somebody long back, eventually a less evil name like mirrorless may catch on.

Yes, as of now, adopters are available for all platforms. But here is the trouble. The AF is either simply not available or not optimal. Most dSLRs use Phase Detection AF, while EVIL cameras use contrast detection AF. In my case mating a 4/3 lens on E-PL1 doesn't work optimally thanks to this difference. Therefore, I haven't bothered with getting an adopter myself. No point connecting a big lens to a tiny body and suffer AF problems. People who are fine with manual focus should be OK.

Huh, it is not sensor size, but flange distance. Since m/43 has very small flange distance, it can accept any family lens using adopters.

Flange focal distance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Actually, even 4/3 can accept any Canon or Nikon lens with adopter.

I'd like to add only one thing that if you want to use existing canikon lenses, you might have to shoot wide open as there is no aperture ring on most lenses today. I think you do get an adapter that can let you change the aperture for Nikon lenses, haven't seen somethin similar for Canon lenses. But, there are so many legacy lenses available for cheap (with aperture ring) that you may not want to mount the current lenses.

This is one such shot from a very old MF Nikon Ai-S lens (100mm FL, EFL=200mm) on a Panasonic G1. And you can see that these lenses still perform on par with the existing ones.
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Old 10th June 2011, 14:03   #208
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Default Re: The Digital Camera Thread: Questions, discussions, etc.

How is the Pana GH2? Any users here?
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Old 15th June 2011, 14:43   #209
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

Any Idea on the performance of Sony NEX 5 model, i visited Reliance Digital and the sales guy over there told me that it is a professional camera, looks cute but will it equal a DSLR camera ?
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Old 15th June 2011, 16:54   #210
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

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Originally Posted by ukderebail View Post
Any Idea on the performance of Sony NEX 5 model, i visited Reliance Digital and the sales guy over there told me that it is a professional camera, looks cute but will it equal a DSLR camera ?
Yes, it is like a dSLR, but without the viewfinder. But the lens choice is pretty limited for now.
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