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Old 3rd October 2010, 23:19   #31
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The e-pl1 came with a 14-42 kit microfourthird zoom, a 40-150 fourthird zoom and adaptor for the latter. This kinda is a duplicate of the 14-45 and 40-150 native I have for my Oly e300, and I really only need the adaptor. I spot a 18-180 fourthird in Jayesh' shop, and open up my phone browser. The price is good, and Jayesh will trade for the kit 40 -150. This will give me a one lens solution (no need to carry and keep changing lenses!) for a travel cam and partially solve the duplication of lens in my set. But I decide against: I am primarily aiming for a carry always cam, and this solution will be reached when I get a Panny 20mm-f1.7 prime. Others have commented never missing their zooms with this setup. And a travel cam will be better achieved with the Zuiko m43 14-150, which is fast, light, as sharp as the 20mm and with good auto-focusing. The possibiliites of using the cam for a macro rig are endless, with the Nikon and the Zuiko 50mm manuals going very cheap and the 14x magnification on the LCD adequate for close focussing, without springing for the very good (and very expensive) EVF. Here it overtakes the e-p2 in function. So these are the areas where the pl1 excel: versatile pocket cam, capable travel cam, and almost limitless in its macro rig avatar (see the thread in jjmehta that Hellwrath posted). Just a typical train of thought a potential buyer may embark on, which may help some in decision making.

Last edited by proton : 3rd October 2010 at 23:38.
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Old 6th October 2010, 10:46   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
I picked up a made in Malaysia Canon 55-250 IS from bangalore for INR 10.5k last month. The price for the same last week at KL was about 15K. Why is that so?
Shooters from Malaysia go to Singapore for the choice and the warranty (read high end gear). They can claim a tax refund at departure. Shooters from Singapore go to Malaysia for the duty exemption on cameras, which often makes the retail price more attractive.

Camera prices in India are going crazy: I bought the E-PL1 for 24500, while it goes for 28000 in KL. The brands are finding India very attractive and are giving us HK prices!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbraj View Post
Well said. Spending money, carrying lot of lenses in the bag, changing them often thereby increased risk to mount/sensor are practicalities that one need to think about. For me, buying a lens, trying it out and selling soon is not a comfortable option. I would rather try to understand what I want by reading a lot.


Low light capability could be a requirement which makes many think of primes.
Since I travel a bit, photography is a way of extending the personal pleasure experienced by recording the good stuff and reviewing at leisure (though pleasure for some may be torture for those forced to sit through slide viewing sessions!). Selection of a prime is primarily (pun unintended!) based on speed because a prime does not contain the telephoto group required in zooms, leading to less glass and more light.

Secondly, personal tastes matter a lot. A 50 mm lens on a FF gives the same angle of view as human vision (often called a "normal" lens). But we all like to grab as much of a view as we can, so the attractiveness of a "wide", say a 40mm. At 35mm, the distorting effects of a wide become uncomfortable for some, though others may still "like" it.

Using a prime often involves "zooming" with your legs: either stepping back to grab more of a subject or moving forward to "fill" the frame. This works with many situations: think of how many really long shots you actually take. However your mileage may vary.

Learned this by reading reviews: cheaper this way, I think!
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Old 16th October 2010, 10:10   #33
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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
I particularly need a DSLR to take good quality photos 'intra-orally,' IE of teeth and I intend to keep records of the same.

Please follow the links that refer to Lester Dine Lenses

SLR or P&S? | September 2010 | Orthodontic Products

Olympus PEN E-PL1 review diary

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The good thing about Lester Dine lenses is that you see most of them in really good condition. They were mainly bought by dentists and were fairly expensive, so they tended to be well cared for.

Last edited by proton : 16th October 2010 at 10:14. Reason: Added quote
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Old 29th November 2010, 20:41   #34
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Yesterday I checked out the Olympus E-PL1 at Mantri Mall. It was slightly bigger than I expected. But very comfortable in the hand. The E-PL1 with 14-42mm lens is 28K after discount, with 14-42 & 40-150mm lens was 38K after discount.

But I need at least 12mm (24mm effective), so I guess I have to wait around. How will my 12-60mm work with EPL1, now that is an interesting thought... AF speed might suffer.
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Old 15th December 2010, 10:11   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Yesterday I checked out the Olympus E-PL1 at Mantri Mall. It was slightly bigger than I expected. But very comfortable in the hand. The E-PL1 with 14-42mm lens is 28K after discount, with 14-42 & 40-150mm lens was 38K after discount.
Samu san, please check with JJMehta too i got a much better price from them when i bought EPL1 with 14-42 kit lens, i paid 24.5k (on Aug 31 2010).
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Old 15th December 2010, 10:20   #36
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

As this is dedicated to EVIL there is one two more EVIL in market
with APS-C sensor. Sony NEX and much less popular Samsung NX10.

The good thing is that the sensor is APS-C instead of 4/3 so crop factor is same as of APS-C DSLR.

The only problem is about the popularity of the mount , If you want then buy these cams and get hold of all the available lens adapters in one go , Who knows when these adapters will disappear from the shelf.
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Old 15th December 2010, 10:59   #37
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The NEX-5 is lot smaller than PL1 and has magnesium body. In fact, dpreview rates NEX-3 and NEX-5 equal to E-PL1. But the user community says stills are better in E-PL1.

There are some really nifty technological breakthroughs in lens design with EVIL cameras.

The regular dSLR lenses won't work well with EVIL cameras. Since most dSLRs use phase detection for AF, and EVIL cameras use contrast detection for AF, the dSLR lens AF performance will suffer in EVIL cameras. I was hoping to use my superb 12-60mm with E-PL1, but now I know better. Many of the non-native lenses won't have AF altogether.

If you don't care about AF, then you can do all kind of mix-n-match.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Samu san, please check with JJMehta too i got a much better price from them when i bought EPL1 with 14-42 kit lens, i paid 24.5k (on Aug 31 2010).
Thanks, good to know that. That means E-PL1 is cheaper than Pany LX-3, that is kind of ridiculous.

Last edited by Samurai : 15th December 2010 at 11:57.
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Old 15th December 2010, 12:08   #38
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Actually what is ridiculous is the price of the "high end" P&S.

Check out the prices of Lx3 or Lx5 or G11/12 or even S90/95.
What is so different in them to warrant the double/treble price of a "normal" P&S?

Sensor size? 1/1.7" compared to 1/2.3" ??
Lens? f/2 instead of f/3.6 - will it make so much difference on such a small lens assembly (for DOF)? (My cybershot has f/2.8 - but it looks like f/11 photos of a dslr)

High ISOs? c'mon above 800 are as much joke as a travel or super zoom. The only advantage these high end P&S have is on noise reduction - and that reduces the clarity and sharpness.

The next advantage is of PSAM controls. These days all travel zoom and super zoom have it.

The only thing I can see is the snob appeal. A pro photographer's P&S. Thats what these are.


Oly EVILs are priced justly - but what about Panasonics?
They are higher than even mid-entry-level DSLRs (like Nk d5000 or Canon 500/550).
Not justified at all!

Last edited by alpha1 : 15th December 2010 at 12:17.
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Old 15th December 2010, 12:21   #39
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

I agree. Well priced EVIL cameras will practically kill the market for high-end P&S now.

BTW, I checked out the image comparison of NEX-5 with PL1 and NX-10. The E-PL1 blows away the competition despite having the smallest sensor of them all. I guess the camera pedigree does count, the other two are primarily electronics companies.

Sony NEX-3 & NEX-5 Review: 16. Compared to (HIGH ISO): Digital Photography Review

Now JJ Mehta is advertising 26K for the E-PL1.

jjmehta.com eShop

Would Jayesh have a better rate?

What bothers me about EVIL cameras as of now is the lack of standard zoom starting at 24mm, and speed of the lenses. Most are starting at F3.5-F4.

Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras-fullscreen-capture-12152010-123302-pm.bmp.jpg

Source: Four Thirds | Four Thirds | Micro Four Thirds | Chart(Lenses)

Last edited by Samurai : 15th December 2010 at 12:35.
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Old 15th December 2010, 14:34   #40
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

I think the image comparison depends more on the kit lens rather then the body itself. There is an adapter to mount Sony Alpha / Minolta lens so comparison with good lens will reveal the real picture.
OT : I can't just imagine how funny NEX cameras will look with a big alpha lens attached.


EDIT : The Sony adapter is 199 $ there are cheaper chinese ones on e-bay as well.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...specifications

Last edited by amitk26 : 15th December 2010 at 14:37. Reason: Added URL for Alpha NEX adapter
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Old 15th December 2010, 16:08   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
I think the image comparison depends more on the kit lens rather then the body itself.
Well, we are talking about EVIL cameras and lenses made for EVIL systems. All EVIL cameras come with only kit lens as of now, and there is not really any better choice within the system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
There is an adapter to mount Sony Alpha / Minolta lens so comparison with good lens will reveal the real picture.
Then even E-PL1 can make use of the superior lenses from the 4/3 range. In fact the kit lens that comes with PL1 is quite bad compared to the usual Zuiko lenses. Therefore, borrowing lenses from the dSLR range may be more beneficial to E-PL1.

Generally, almost all Olympus Zuiko 4/3 lenses are very good for the price. In fact Olympus is known for their legendary Zuiko lens range. I admit, it is not commonly known in India. However, the Zuiko m4/3 lenses are nowhere as good as their 4/3 counter parts. As I own the Zuiko 12-60mm, I was literally cringing when I read the lens review of the m4/3 14-42 lens. It is a far cry from the usual Zuiko standard. I guess they are yet to master the miniaturizing of the lens to match the m4/3 while retain the image quality.

The verdict on 12-60mm lens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpreview.com
Indeed the Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 12-60mm F2.8-4.0 SWD is quite simply a superb lens, which can lay claim to being one of the very best standard zooms currently available. This is a design which would have been almost unimaginable even five years ago; a 5x wideangle to telephoto zoom which, though the use of some exotic optics, manages to perform almost flawlessly across its entire range, and throws in some impressive macro performance too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by www.photozone.de
Olympus Zuiko Digital lenses have quite a reputation - they're supposed to be among the best out there and the 12-60mm f/2.8-4 ED SWD is a surely a worthy representative matching the high expectations. It produces very sharp and contrasty images throughout the range. Vignetting, distortions and lateral chromatic aberrations (CAs) are all well controlled for a standard zoom lens. The quality of the bokeh could be a little better maybe.
The build quality is very high and thanks to the dust and moisture sealing it is able to withstand harsh environments. The new SWD ("Sonic Wave Drive") AF is exceedingly fast - even Canon/Nikon users would be highly impressed here.
Now look at m4/3 kit lens, the only choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpreview.com
The M. Zuiko Digital 14-42mm F3.5-5.6 ED gives results which are a little pedestrian for an entry-level 'walkaround' kit zoom - it will certainly get the job done, just without any great degree of distinction. Clearly some compromises have been made to achieve the compact collapsing design; the 'regular' Four Thirds Zuiko Digital 14-42mm F3.5-5.6 kit lens performs better overall, with higher sharpness and rather lower chromatic aberration at wideangle, and much sharper results wide open at telephoto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by www.photozone.de
The Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 ED is relatively good match for the E-P1 but don't expect a stellar lens. The delivered resolution is pretty decent across the range although it lacks greatness towards the borders and at the long end of the zoom range. A strength of the lens is the lack of vignetting. The M.Zuiko suffers from a moderate degree of lateral CAs which doesn't seem to be corrected for whatever reason. When analyzing uncorrected RAW files the distortions are quite extreme at 14mm but mainstream users will only experience moderate distortions in their (corrected) images here.
The lens construction is a bit debatable. It's a retractable lens, or in other words - you need to set into its working mode prior of being able to take images with it. Size-wise this is an advantage when packing the lens into your back but the handling isn't really perfect. A bit more problematic is the build quality of the lens - the inner lens tube is very shaky and only a shadow of the quality that we're used to from Olympus DSLR lenses (classic 4/3 system). All-in-all a lens which has been primarily optimized for compactness and a low price tag.
So that is my other grouse, the m4/3 Zuiko lenses are lot inferior to what I am used with regular 4/3. So I am not yet ready to swap my E3 + 60-12mm for EPL1. I might buy E-PL1 as an additional camera, but it can't replace my current setup. I just hope that better lenses will come out in 2011-12.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
OT : I can't just imagine how funny NEX cameras will look with a big alpha lens attached.
I know how E-PL1 will look with 12-60mm, i can see it here: Four Thirds | Special Contents | Matching Simulation

Last edited by Samurai : 15th December 2010 at 16:17.
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Old 16th December 2010, 10:46   #42
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Oly E-PL1 indeed has one of the best JPEG rendering engine.
As well as optimum levels of NR - which don't smudge the details.

I was astounded to compare the shots on DPreview at 1600 ISO where E-PL1 showed comnparable resolution (and comparable noise) to Nk5000, Canon 1000/500 etc. Only the Canon 550 and above were better!

E-PL1 seriously looks impressive, especially considering the price point.
The only real prob = contrast based focus which is slower than the phase detect rangefinding in SLRs

But then, regarding the query on slow lenses.
I believe the major hurdle in adapting a lens to different mount is the actual focal distance on lens, and mount flange to mirror distance on camera.

Micro4/3 - just because of their sheer small size should be able to take ANY lens meant for DSLR. Only thing you need to hunt around for is a mount adapter.

Needless to add that most definitely - auto focusing will not be possible.
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Old 16th December 2010, 11:33   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
Micro4/3 - just because of their sheer small size should be able to take ANY lens meant for DSLR. Only thing you need to hunt around for is a mount adapter.

Needless to add that most definitely - auto focusing will not be possible.
From what I have read first party adapters such as from Sony for Alpha to NEX makes AF possible because they have electrical contacts as well.

There was an Olympus adapter from 4/3 to Micro 4/3 which was bundled along with camera in initial days that also allowed AF IMHO.

Lens from other systems need to be focused manually with purely mechanical adapter.
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Old 16th December 2010, 12:27   #44
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You're so right - whenever one travels to interesting locations and gets to enjoy the privilege of some really beautiful sweeping views, the biggest let down is the sheer inability of a camera to capture the beauty that our eyes can see.

Thats why I guess it s a good idea to spend a bit more time just viewing it through one's eyes rather than trying to photograph it in just the same way!!

No lens in the world can come close to photographically approximating the pleasure one is able to derive with one's own eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by proton View Post
Secondly, personal tastes matter a lot. A 50 mm lens on a FF gives the same angle of view as human vision (often called a "normal" lens). But we all like to grab as much of a view as we can, so the attractiveness of a "wide", say a 40mm. At 35mm, the distorting effects of a wide become uncomfortable for some, though others may still "like" it.

Using a prime often involves "zooming" with your legs: either stepping back to grab more of a subject or moving forward to "fill" the frame. This works with many situations: think of how many really long shots you actually take. However your mileage may vary.

Learned this by reading reviews: cheaper this way, I think!
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Old 16th December 2010, 12:44   #45
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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
You're so right - whenever one travels to interesting locations and gets to enjoy the privilege of some really beautiful sweeping views, the biggest let down is the sheer inability of a camera to capture the beauty that our eyes can see.
That basically explains a noob photographer. As one gets better at composition, it is possible to turn an ordinary sight into extra-ordinary sight. I have seen Rudra do it. I too have had partial success in capturing the right mood sometimes. Photography is not about just capturing an image, you have to capture the mood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
Oly E-PL1 indeed has one of the best JPEG rendering engine.
As well as optimum levels of NR - which don't smudge the details.

I was astounded to compare the shots on DPreview at 1600 ISO where E-PL1 showed comnparable resolution (and comparable noise) to Nk5000, Canon 1000/500 etc. Only the Canon 550 and above were better!

E-PL1 seriously looks impressive, especially considering the price point.
I agree. That is why this camera intrigues me. The output is so good despite the crappy lens it has got. It makes sense to get it just for the body. Later, as better m4/3 lenses come along, it can only get better.
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