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Old 20th November 2012, 14:12   #586
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
Why should the learning curve of the NEX 5N be different from an entry level DSLR like the D5k? I mean photography fundamentals must be the same for both (or for any body) so any camera that gives you facility to manually adjust exposure should be equally tough/easy to work with.
This:

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Its all about turning a few knobs/flipping few screens and that one can learn given sufficient time.
It turns out that some folks find too many knobs and buttons equally confusing. I blame iPhones and iPads spoiling us with their fancy touchscreens and UI's.

One could argue that these people shouldn't be investing in such cameras, and I would agree. I don't think it's any co-incidence that my cousins found my camera (which incidentally has a touchscreen, very few buttons and no knobs) far easier to use.

You see, what they wanted was a camera which was better than their current one (point-and-shoot) but just as easy to use. I guess the NEX series bridges that gap quite well. Why didn't they buy the NEX then? Short answer: They hadn't heard of micro 4/3rds or EVIL.
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Old 20th November 2012, 15:54   #587
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

Thanks Behemoth. Yes I know about HDR but OM-D does not have that as in-camera. Only way is to take multiple pics with multiple exposures and then combine them in post processing.

In my case I was trying to take pics of children competing in various events. For example this pic:



I tried shooting these events in burst mode and all pics were badly exposed.

Last edited by joslicx : 20th November 2012 at 15:58.
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Old 20th November 2012, 16:46   #588
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by KnightRider77 View Post
This:

It turns out that some folks find too many knobs and buttons equally confusing. I blame iPhones and iPads spoiling us with their fancy touchscreens and UI's.

One could argue that these people shouldn't be investing in such cameras, and I would agree. I don't think it's any co-incidence that my cousins found my camera (which incidentally has a touchscreen, very few buttons and no knobs) far easier to use.

You see, what they wanted was a camera which was better than their current one (point-and-shoot) but just as easy to use. I guess the NEX series bridges that gap quite well. Why didn't they buy the NEX then? Short answer: They hadn't heard of micro 4/3rds or EVIL.
Well I find buttons/knobs much more convinient as then I dont have to take my eyes off the viewfinder Its a great thing that in the OM-D's EVF you can see how the exposure is changing with every change in ISO/Aperture or shutter speed!

By the way, my point was you'd still need to know what Aperture to use or what shutter speed to use etc. Knowing that is probably what is much more difficult than actual turning of the knobs (its not difficult if you can learn though). Actually I think Canikon should use an EVF in their entry level models or use an hybrid (both optical+EVF like the Fuji one) viewfinder. Then people would be able to see how using buttons they are able to change exposure in the viewfinder itself. That can be very helpful, at least for less serious photographers.

If people want a P&S type camera which can match DSLRs then probably the Sony RX100 might be a good choice. Pity not many people know such cameras exist. Also the lure of the "DSLR looks" takes its toll. For many people cameras that look like DSLRs are the only "serious" cameras

Last edited by joslicx : 20th November 2012 at 16:50.
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Old 20th November 2012, 16:48   #589
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

Shoot RAW and low ISO, you can easily recover a stop. If your object of interest is going to be in shade, focus on something shade and then press AE-lock button.
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Old 20th November 2012, 17:36   #590
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Thanks for the tip.
One question is - Does it make sense to use flash in such a situation? But then, continuous shooting might not be possible with flash ?
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Old 20th November 2012, 17:55   #591
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

No, flash won't help here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
In my case I was trying to take pics of children competing in various events. For example this pic:

I tried shooting these events in burst mode and all pics were badly exposed.
Most of your frame has the bright flooring. So the darker parts should have underexposed if you are using matrix metering. What metering you are using?

Olympus has the best jpeg engine compared all other camera makers since many years. Yes, even dpreview reviewers admit that. Therefore, if you don't know raw processing, stick to jpeg on the OM-D.
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Old 20th November 2012, 18:29   #592
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
Thanks Behemoth. Yes I know about HDR but OM-D does not have that as in-camera. Only way is to take multiple pics with multiple exposures and then combine them in post processing.
One of the seniors had posted (either here or in the non auto image thread, not long back) on how to do tone mapping from a single image and bring out the maximum dynamic range from it. That can be useful in such situations I guess. I cant find the post though. :(
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Old 20th November 2012, 18:31   #593
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

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No, flash won't help here.

Most of your frame has the bright flooring. So the darker parts should have underexposed if you are using matrix metering. What metering you are using?

Olympus has the best jpeg engine compared all other camera makers since many years. Yes, even dpreview reviewers admit that. Therefore, if you don't know raw processing, stick to jpeg on the OM-D.
But if your camera metered on the bright side, how would a better JPEG engine help. The shot would still be underexposed. RAW shooting will allow you two stops leeway in pulling up shadows, or pushing down highlights. Esp with a camera such as OM-D, which has really good dynamic range, not shooting RAW is like not making the most from the camera!
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Old 20th November 2012, 18:39   #594
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

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But if your camera metered on the bright side, how would a better JPEG engine help. The shot would still be underexposed.
Then select the right metering.

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RAW shooting will allow you two stops leeway in pulling up shadows, or pushing down highlights.
Only if you know raw editing.

Quote:
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Esp with a camera such as OM-D, which has really good dynamic range, not shooting RAW is like not making the most from the camera!
Most dSLR/mirrorless owners don't shoot raw.
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Old 20th November 2012, 19:29   #595
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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I am intrigued by this statement. Why should the learning curve of the NEX 5N be different from an entry level DSLR like the D5k?
My short answer is that one is made by a camera company while the other is made by a consumer electronics company.

To quote our guest speaker (from my school) last weekend, you can improvise a typewriter, add automatic white spacing when you backspace, but you would still be making a typewriter and be beaten by a word processor in computer.

The canikons are still looking at the camera as a traditional camera, while sony, samsung and panasonic are adding their innovations from their consumer electronics divisions.
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Old 20th November 2012, 21:18   #596
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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My short answer is that one is made by a camera company while the other is made by a consumer electronics company.

To quote our guest speaker (from my school) last weekend, you can improvise a typewriter, add automatic white spacing when you backspace, but you would still be making a typewriter and be beaten by a word processor in computer.

The canikons are still looking at the camera as a traditional camera, while sony, samsung and panasonic are adding their innovations from their consumer electronics divisions.
I kind of didnt get your argument or what the company has to do with a consumer finding one camera easier to use than the other? I thought the argument was about percieved difficulty in using a DSLR (which is more of a mental block rather than anything else as the same basics apply for both DSLR as well as mirrorless)

Canikon make some good cameras no doubt, but so do the likes of Leica, Olympus, Panasonic, Sony, Pentax etc.
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Old 20th November 2012, 21:29   #597
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
I kind of didnt get your argument or what the company has to do with a consumer finding one camera easier to use than the other? I thought the argument was about percieved difficulty in using a DSLR (which is more of a mental block rather than anything else as the same basics apply for both DSLR as well as mirrorless)
Not the company, but the way it creates its products have to do with the way consumer perceives it. Assisting user in operation (onscreen guides, focus peaking for example), adding connectivity options, adding other functionality like HD video, apps, touch screen etc are all pioneered by non canikons.

e.g., sony calls aperture control as defocus control, and provides a slider to control it. Purists may look down upon at it, but consumers will embrace it.

Technically it's possible to do the same in DSLR, but the mirrorless are seeing more of these probably because companies think the mass targetted consumers don't care about mirror either. Pro photographers still prefer DSLR style controls and terminology.
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Old 20th November 2012, 23:53   #598
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

I think Vivek has hit the nail on the head there. By demystifying the DSLR, Sony and its ilk have made it easier for more consumers (not necessarily photographers!) to use one and in the process take surprisingly decent photos.

Granted, you still have to make the effort to know what Aperture and Shutter Speed and Rule of Thirds all mean, but at least the interface doesn't have to be intimidating.
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Old 21st November 2012, 01:20   #599
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post

To quote our guest speaker (from my school) last weekend, you can improvise a typewriter, add automatic white spacing when you backspace, but you would still be making a typewriter and be beaten by a word processor in computer.

The canikons are still looking at the camera as a traditional camera, while sony, samsung and panasonic are adding their innovations from their consumer electronics divisions.
It can't be explained more simpler than this. The Canikons are here since a long time and I'm not able to see products like the ones from Sony, Leica, Olympus. I mean compact cameras. The first and the foremost reason for me to finalize on the NEX system was its compactness. I'm sure the future will hold a lot of good products as the competition gets intense in the EVIL space.
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Old 21st November 2012, 13:08   #600
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Default Re: The DSLR Thread

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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
Thanks for the tip.
One question is - Does it make sense to use flash in such a situation? But then, continuous shooting might not be possible with flash ?
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No, flash won't help here.
Samurai, I'm of the opposite view. I think a flash will help.

To answer your question joslicx, a flash gun attached to the camera's hotshoe will help to fill in the shadow areas, especially the kids faces, with light. A built in camera flash won't help. You need something with more power and throw. For continuous shooting you'll need an external battery pack for the flash to reduce recycle time and then you'll need a bracket to mount it off camera.

The thing to do is not use continuous shooting. Use single shot often - most dedicated flashes can cope with that.
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