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Old 1st May 2013, 01:00   #946
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Got 2 EVIL lenses despite thinking that I will not give in to gear lust.
My review is as per my limited usage and understanding and may not please people who think micro 4/3 is best thing after sliced bread.

1. Olympus 45 F1.8

Positives :
1. Sharp by micro 4/3 standards
2. Fast focussing speed.
3. Good colour rendering
4. Must buy as Olympus 14-42 II is nearly useless

Negatives:

1. Focussing ring is little imprecise.
2. Narrow field of view just good for head-shots indoors.
3. Though it may be best thing for micro 4/3 but still does not match decades old Canon 50 F1.8 lens in terms of bokeh , subject isolation and sharpness.
Overall the lens costs around 19K in India ( cheaper then Amazon price) so
little more is expected out of it.

4. This lens is as tall as Canon nifty fifty just the diameter is small so overall not very compact.

The issue with micro 4/3 bodies is that the bodies do a lot of in-camera processing ( which some how people frown if done in photoshop).

So for example if you use 3D mode you get excellent pictures with blurred background but if you use M mode and try to get as is results are not so great.

I have not removed the blue tapes from front ring just in case I decide to sell it off.

(2)Panasonic Zuiko 20 F1.7

Got it 2nd hand , lens is not available off the shelf in India.

1. Positives
a) Better FOV for Micro 4/3
b) Good colours in day
c) Compact size

Negatives
a) Focus motor is not very silent but this is not a big issue.
b) Manual focus ring is iffy.
b) Not much of bokeh , Can't be compared to Pentax 40 F2.8 or Canon 40 F2.8 ( rough FF equivalents) even when mounted on APS-C
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Old 1st May 2013, 08:16   #947
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Got 2 EVIL lenses despite thinking that I will not give in to gear lust.
My review is as per my limited usage and understanding and may not please people who think micro 4/3 is best thing after sliced bread.
Your review is based on which m4/3 body?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
1. Olympus 45 F1.8
Negatives:

1. Focussing ring is little imprecise.
Sorry, never noticed the focusing ring, let alone use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
2. Narrow field of view just good for head-shots indoors.
Sorry, I have taken many group photos with it. Will send you one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
3. Though it may be best thing for micro 4/3 but still does not match decades old Canon 50 F1.8 lens in terms of bokeh , subject isolation and sharpness.
You should discuss this one with member ampere, who was asking me how my 45mm is sharper than his Canon 50mm, but I couldn't answer since I am not familiar with Canon 50mm.
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Old 1st May 2013, 09:39   #948
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Default Mirrorless sugggestion

Hi, after playing for 2 years with Pana FZ-35, I am now looking for an upgrade. Have my eyes on Mirrorless cameras since long to get the best (nearly) of both worlds.

After some research have shortlisted the below:
Samsung NX-1000 (Picture quality and VFM albeit a bit slow)

Initially was attracted towards Oly Pen EPL-3 but changed due to good reveiws of samsung in Techradar and PhotograpyBlog. And the low price makes it much more attractive and easier to enter the new bandwagon of mirrorless.

Need comments/suggestions from gurus here.

My main requirements are:
1. Picture quality
2. Focussing speed (should be better than FZ35 atleast)
3. VFM
4. Possibility to add zoom lens

Thanks;
-Rohit
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Old 1st May 2013, 09:56   #949
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
3. Though it may be best thing for micro 4/3 but still does not match decades old Canon 50 F1.8 lens in terms of bokeh , subject isolation and sharpness.
Overall the lens costs around 19K in India ( cheaper then Amazon price) so
little more is expected out of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
You should discuss this one with member ampere, who was asking me how my 45mm is sharper than his Canon 50mm, but I couldn't answer since I am not familiar with Canon 50mm.
Amit,

When I saw samurai san post that snap yesterday in this thread, I got reminded of some of the portraits one of which he had post quite some back of an OTR event (snapped with the 45mm) That's when I also realised that the ones I try with 50mm dont give me that sharpness. If you recollect the same discussion we had on the DSLR thread (R2D2 and you had commented on the same). No doubt you get good bokeh, but at those razer thin DOF (1.8/2), if I focus the eyes I see the snaps a bit soft. May be thats I should be seeing at that DOF. But I am not sure (And I am not going down to the pixel level). A simple look at that portraits it looks to me like that. At normal outdoor lighting, I get incredible portraits no doubt and they are really sharp. But indoors its a different story. You had suggested that it may an issue of a focus on the body. But the same lens or 70-200 F4 in daylight I get very good portraits. However indoors the same 50mm with F1.8 or F2, does not give the same results. Dont know where am I going wrong. (It may also be possible be that the 550D performance at low lights does not do justice to the Canon 50mm capabilities)

Last edited by ampere : 1st May 2013 at 09:59.
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Old 1st May 2013, 11:06   #950
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Isn't the dSLR thread a better candidate for this post?
Not sure if I followed you. With a title called "Evil Camera's"; this to me sounds like any camera that has made a mark in the photography world.

Its only after I flipped to Page 1 did I notice that this is a digital forum.

My post can be deleted if unsuitable.
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Old 1st May 2013, 13:22   #951
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
A day after I ordered, the vendor replied saying it is available for Rs.25,600/-, cheaper than the Amazon price. It was too late to cancel the order then. This vendor was Camshot.in, your local guy.
Pricing isn't so bad but I really wish they had priced it at the level of the 45mm 1.8. It would have been a great deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Got 2 EVIL lenses despite thinking that I will not give in to gear lust.

1. Olympus 45 F1.8

Positives :
1. Sharp by micro 4/3 standards
2. Fast focussing speed.
3. Good colour rendering
Congrats, this a really nice lens. It is tagged as a 'portrait' lens but it is my most frequently used m4/3rd lens. I use it much like I do my 50mm 1.4G FX lens.

If the FOV is too narrow for the shot I have in mind, I just step back and reframe. This lens is very good but of the 3 lenses I have, including the kit lens, for great IQ the 75 1.8 is a benchmark in the Oly range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ampere View Post
You had suggested that it may an issue of a focus on the body. But the same lens or 70-200 F4 in daylight I get very good portraits. However indoors the same 50mm with F1.8 or F2, does not give the same results. Dont know where am I going wrong. (It may also be possible be that the 550D performance at low lights does not do justice to the Canon 50mm capabilities)
I still believe it could just be a focus calibration issue. Take a few test shots with a printed target in daylight and indoors, check the IQ and if not satisfied consider taking the combination to the Canon ASC.

I have attached a Siemens test chart - considered by some to be the standard.

Test chart creation credits to:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/41931165

Please print this on a letter size sheet of paper and give it a go.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf SiemensStarA.pdf (331.8 KB, 135 views)

Last edited by R2D2 : 1st May 2013 at 13:23.
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Old 1st May 2013, 20:50   #952
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Default Mirrorless cameras dropping in popularity?

MLCs dropping in popularity? Was reading thru this content on the net.

This is by no means conclusive evidence but something to take notice of.

Which also means the only Jap camera companies making profits on sales of their camera and lenses are Nikon and Canon.

Fuji, Oly, Panasonic and Sony camera divisions are awash in red ink. If this continues it does not augur well for the MLC. Desperate situations may lead to these companies taking desperate measures.

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/...ents-down.html

and a debate at dpreview:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3481107

And Fuji's financials:

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/...inancials.html
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Old 1st May 2013, 21:59   #953
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Default Re: Mirrorless cameras dropping in popularity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
MLCs dropping in popularity? Was reading thru this content on the net.

This is by no means conclusive evidence but something to take notice of.

Which also means the only Jap camera companies making profits on sales of their camera and lenses are Nikon and Canon.

Fuji, Oly, Panasonic and Sony camera divisions are awash in red ink. If this continues it does not augur well for the MLC. Desperate situations may lead to these companies taking desperate measures.

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/...ents-down.html

and a debate at dpreview:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3481107

And Fuji's financials:

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/...inancials.html
Interesting read. Looks like the sales of DSLR's are also fluctuating. I guess that the MLC's will gain popularity when those two big names (Canon & Nikon) have a killer MLC in place. Once that happens, may be the MLC market will surpass DSLR's.

Anyone here using Lightroom? Recently I started shooting RAW and finding Lightroom awesome to process. I guess I've just touched the basics of Lightroom, there is a lot to be uncovered before I could get the best pixels out from my RAW to JPEG.
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Old 1st May 2013, 23:36   #954
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Lets face it the future is mirrorless.Sony is rumored to going full mirrorless in their APS-C size sensor cameras with both the mounts E-mount NEX and A-mount SLT/SLR.According to SAR rumor site there will no longer be new model SLT cameras with APS-C sensors.So future Sony cameras will loose the Translucent mirror.

Sony SLT has a mirror but its sole purpose is just for PDAF sensor.So once On-Sensor PDAF becomes good enough then we can expect mirrorless Sony,canikon cameras with existing lens mount.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 10:49   #955
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Default Re: Mirrorless cameras dropping in popularity?

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Originally Posted by joe1980 View Post
Interesting read. Looks like the sales of DSLR's are also fluctuating. I guess that the MLC's will gain popularity when those two big names (Canon & Nikon) have a killer MLC in place. Once that happens, may be the MLC market will surpass DSLR's. .
DSLRs have fluctuated but not as much as the EVILs - they were 76.8 and 57.8% of last years revenues respectively.

I am waiting for Nikon to introduce a mirror-less equivalent of their DSLRs.

The current EVILs (J1/V1/V2 etc) are rather wanting in features and performance compared with their DSLR siblings and they aren't well priced either. Canon's M is a non starter. You have far better options from Olympus and Fuji.

Thing is these 2 manufacturers have an obvious vested interest in keeping the DSLR line going.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe1980 View Post
Anyone here using Lightroom? Recently I started shooting RAW and finding Lightroom awesome to process. I guess I've just touched the basics of Lightroom, there is a lot to be uncovered before I could get the best pixels out from my RAW to JPEG.
I have LR 4.4, PS6, ACDsee Pro 6 and DXO. Of these PS6 is the least used while LR is the most frequently. LR is closely followed by ACDsee and DXO. Unless you do some serious PP you don't need Photoshop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aim120 View Post
Sony is rumored to going full mirrorless in their APS-C size sensor cameras with both the mounts E-mount NEX and A-mount SLT/SLR.According to SAR rumor site there will no longer be new model SLT cameras with APS-C sensors.So future Sony cameras will loose the Translucent mirror.

Sony SLT has a mirror but its sole purpose is just for PDAF sensor.So once On-Sensor PDAF becomes good enough then we can expect mirrorless Sony,canikon cameras with existing lens mount.
Sony (& Panasonic) are AV consumer electronics companies at heart. Sony is well known for experimenting with proprietary formats and systems at the customers expense. That's why I told my bro to avoid a Sony DSLT even if IQ and performance is good. He was looking at the A99 and now considering a Canon 5D Mk3. Better to stick with a tried and tested manufacturer with a wide service and support network, not to mention accessories and software compatibility. I had asked for the GH3 and a response from Panasonic India directed me to visit the nearest service centre!!!. At this rate they will be doomed. Still no word on my query, I went in for an Oly and Fuji a long time back. Sorry, Panasonic you lost out..again.

Last edited by R2D2 : 2nd May 2013 at 10:57.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 11:47   #956
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Default Re: Mirrorless cameras dropping in popularity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Sony (& Panasonic) are AV consumer electronics companies at heart. Sony is well known for experimenting with proprietary formats and systems at the customers expense. That's why I told my bro to avoid a Sony DSLT even if IQ and performance is good. He was looking at the A99 and now considering a Canon 5D Mk3. Better to stick with a tried and tested manufacturer with a wide service and support network, not to mention accessories and software compatibility. I had asked for the GH3 and a response from Panasonic India directed me to visit the nearest service centre!!!. At this rate they will be doomed. Still no word on my query, I went in for an Oly and Fuji a long time back. Sorry, Panasonic you lost out..again.
I think Sony missed the bus when they decided to go with APSC sensor in the nex series. They should have joined the m4/3 bandwagon. Would have benefited from the availability of existing lenses (second only to FF in terms of numbers) and cost benefits because of smaller sensor size. As Olympus OM-D has proved, theres not much going for APSC sensors in terms of performance and Sony could also have benefited from the partnership with Olympus e.g. the IS system of the OM-D etc.

I think in future they might have to ditch Nex and go m4/3 , and all these three bigwigs might merge to survive.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 12:16   #957
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Sony already owns 11.5% of Olympus. Also, they executed a new JV on Surgical equipment development. http://e.nikkei.com/e/fr/tnks/Nni20130417D1604A10.htm

Sony could just dump the NEX and embrace m4/3. There is real synergy there for Sony+ Olympus venture.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 12:26   #958
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Default Re: Mirrorless cameras dropping in popularity?

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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
I think Sony missed the bus when they decided to go with APSC sensor in the nex series. They should have joined the m4/3 bandwagon. Would have benefited from the availability of existing lenses (second only to FF in terms of numbers) and cost benefits because of smaller sensor size. As Olympus OM-D has proved, theres not much going for APSC sensors in terms of performance and Sony could also have benefited from the partnership with Olympus e.g. the IS system of the OM-D etc.

I think in future they might have to ditch Nex and go m4/3 , and all these three bigwigs might merge to survive.
Agreed with your views. But for companies like Sony, old habits die hard. They like proprietary systems.

I am so tired of the trashy threads on dpreview.com's m4/3rds, Fuji & Nikon forums! Most participants act like a bunch of school kids with adult sized egos fighting over whose toy is better.

Check out Ming Thein's blog entries. I may have shared these links before. Even though these are only his opinions with a self-confessed bias towards the more well known brands, Ming's clarity of thought, incisive and clear analysis is really thought provoking. I rate Ming's site as one of my top 3 favourites, the others being Thom Hogan and Nasim Mansurov. Ming is brilliant and his B&W photos are superb. He uses Leica, Olympus and of course Nikon systems.

http://blog.mingthein.com/2013/04/08/system-choices-1/

http://blog.mingthein.com/2013/04/10/system-choices-2/

Ming, based out of KL Malaysia, is a Physicist educated at Oxford University and worked at BCG, McDonalds among others before giving up what was most certainly a very lucrative corporate career and becoming a pro shutterbug.

http://blog.mingthein.com/aboutcontact/
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Old 2nd May 2013, 15:18   #959
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Canon , Nikon, pentax and samsung also use proprietary mounts so its not just Sony.Apart from that there is no longer any proprietary thing in Sony they all use SD cards.

The NEX series is doing well from the sales data prior to the release of the olympus OM-D EM5 ,the nex series had the highest market share in mirrorless cameras world wide and was second in its home market japan.Not sure about the market share now after the launch of OM-D EM5.

I doubt Sony will go with M4/3 mount since there E-mount lenses are not only used by NEX cameras but also in amateur ,semi,pro level video cameras in which Sony is the leader.

Secondly they are also rumored in future (based on patents) to be launching a camera which can take both A-mount and E-mount lenses .

SLT tech was always a stop go tech since at that time of its launch and even today the On sensor Phase Detect Auto Focus or PDAF is no match do the bigger dedicated PDAF sensor found in SLT and DSLRs.But Sony must have overcome this and the new cameras in 2014 will have no mirror whats so ever and will rely completely on ON-Sensor PDAF.

Biggest rival for digital cameras and compact inter changeable mirrorless cameras like m4/3 and NEX will come from smart phones.

Last edited by aim120 : 2nd May 2013 at 15:21.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 15:32   #960
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by aim120 View Post
Biggest rival for digital cameras and compact inter changeable mirrorless cameras like m4/3 and NEX will come from smart phones.
You mean smartphones with interchangeable lenses? That'll be the day!
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