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Old 2nd May 2013, 15:40   #961
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
You mean smartphones with interchangeable lenses? That'll be the day!
No just regular smart phones .Once sensors get really good at high iso of around 1600 ,the Vast majority will just use smart phones rather then carrying a digital camera or a MILC and people who want zoom will probably go with a ultra zoom cameras i mean there is already a 50x zoom cameras which will be tempting for the vast majority.

Hobbyist and shutter bugs or people who rely on photography to earn their bread will continue using what they like.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 16:01   #962
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
You mean smartphones with interchangeable lenses? That'll be the day!
OT:

There are already few lenses available for Android based phones.

Here's one: http://phandroid.com/2013/04/29/phot...e-lens-review/
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Old 2nd May 2013, 16:09   #963
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by ajay_satpute View Post
OTThere are already few lenses available for Android based phones.
That is an adopter. I used to buy such wide/fisheye adopters for my digital P&S 10-12 years. The quality goes for a toss. No, I am talking about interchangeable lenses.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 23:06   #964
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Is there a working range that applies to the focal length of the lens? For example, I shoot most of the times with a 30mm lens and between f2.8 and f4.0 aperture range. When I get very close to the subject, my camera finds it a hard to lock the focus. I back up a little, the focus is made and the shot is taken. Is there a had and fast rule to know the distance to the subject from the focal length of the lens? I guess it is written in the lens manufacturers specification. Any suggestion guys?
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Old 2nd May 2013, 23:09   #965
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

You mean minimum focusing distance? That is a lens characteristic, every lens has a minimum focusing distance. Check your lens specification.
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Old 3rd May 2013, 10:58   #966
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Hi Guys,

My review was not meant to ruffle any feathers but just my experience :-)
Every lens + body combo has some sweet spots and it is job of photographer to find them for best results , I am in process of finding for Olympus 45 F1.8 still

Quote:
Originally Posted by ampere View Post
Amit,
I try with 50mm dont give me that sharpness. If you recollect the same discussion we had on the DSLR thread (R2D2 and you had commented on the same). No doubt you get good bokeh, but at those razer thin DOF (1.8/2),
Actually I wanted to replay to your post with some of the pics shot with F1.4 and F1.8 lenses but could not find time to upload. I will surely try do that tonight.

Bigger the sensor less will be DOF there is 1/2 stop difference between APS-C and micro 4/3 what does 1/2 Stop mean in actual terms ?

It means that F1.8 on micro 4/3 is F2.22 on APS-C.
In terms of shutter speed half stop means if you were using 1/100 on Micro 4/3 you should use 1/70 for same exposure on APS-C.

So for getting same picture apart from framing you need to keep these in mind. BTW base ISO is 200 in Olympus bodies so everytime the picture comes brighter then what you will see from other bodies with base ISO of 100 , IF you change aperute to change this DOF will vary so you need to compensate with shutter speed further by factor of 1.41 ( root 2).
Same picture is key else you can forget the numbers above.

You may use the DOF scale to check DOF differences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Your review is based on which m4/3 body?
If viewed at 100% or less and no crop done and shot at base ISO of 200 and there is no discussion of noise how does it affact? BTW I shot on EPL-3.
May be the OMD EM-5 gives best results but I am comparing it to a Canon 15.1 MP much maligned sensor body 500D which is obsolete now but I find it still useful and every time I find myself spending money on a lens rather then upgrading body.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post

Sorry, I have taken many group photos with it. Will send you one.
Saw the group photo nice one , could you please confirm if detailed features of all the faces are visible in 100% view. In the reduced size image I am seeing some smudging and that exactly is my problem. If I shoot someone close to the lens in good light near to centre it comes great.

BTW moving back more to get wider FOV is a possibility and narrow FOV is not something I hold against the lens it's just that Luxary of moving back more then 20 feet is available just in the hall of my apartment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
You should discuss this one with member ampere, who was asking me how my 45mm is sharper than his Canon 50mm, but I couldn't answer since I am not familiar with Canon 50mm.
Will post some photos from Canon / Pentax / Sigma etc at F1.4 and F1.8,
Amperes problem seems to be narrow DOF he gets eyes in sharp focus and not full face that is understandable.
On Micro 4/3 DOF is more.

Last edited by amitk26 : 3rd May 2013 at 11:21.
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Old 6th May 2013, 00:52   #967
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Hi Ampere,

Look t this picture shot with 30mm F1.4 under couple of CFL lamps in the ceiling above head of this guy.

The EXIF is Tv=1/160 Av= 1.4 ISO 200 , partial metering , manual exposure

I have reduced 15.1 MP image 1024X683 pixels in 71KB JPEG so there is lot of loss of quality but still I find image to be sharp
Look at the pattern in head gear and facial hair , in full size image they are sharp

But what I like most in this image is subject isolation from cluttered background


also there is a crop of the fake beard which looks grainy due to reduction and if out of focus as the focus was somewhere on cheek

Do you expect more sharpness at F1.4 ?

I think for a sharper image Aperture needs to be closed and DOF increased
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Last edited by amitk26 : 6th May 2013 at 01:02.
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Old 6th May 2013, 01:22   #968
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

One more sample this time with Canon 50mm F1.8 at F1.8 shot casually

This is 1/400 F1.8

Sunglass rim and hair on the temple are in focus and hair strands are isolated ( check full view though it is reduced image) so boo it is sharp focus in my books , but the T shirts hanging at the kiosk are in bokeh they were less then couple of feet apart.


SORRY It is not EVIL image but just wanted to communicate on sharpness wide open.
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Last edited by amitk26 : 6th May 2013 at 01:25.
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Old 6th May 2013, 07:26   #969
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Look t this picture shot with 30mm F1.4 under couple of CFL lamps in the ceiling above head of this guy.
The EXIF is Tv=1/160 Av= 1.4 ISO 200 , partial metering , manual exposure
But what I like most in this image is subject isolation from cluttered background
Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
One more sample this time with Canon 50mm F1.8 at F1.8 shot casually

This is 1/400 F1.8

@Amit, Thanks a lot for those snaps. Yes they are sharp indeed. As I said earlier, since I shoot indoors, lighting is much lower. So I never get 1/160 or similar shutter speeds. Its much lower (Almost 1/20 @ ISO 200). So I need to crank-up the ISO to 800/1600 to get manageable shutter speeds. And in those ranges, more than the lens, the 550D body I think starts limiting the performance. As you point out, if I try taking images at day light, I should be getting better results even for f 1.8. Or even f1.8 with flash should yield better results (And I see that happening). But I dont want to use flash. So, I dont see any way out unless I do a body upgrade which has a good performance at higher ISOs. @Samurai showed much some snaps from his OMD which look amazing at ISO 1000 straight out of the camera. I can never hope to get such images at such ISOs from my 550D.

So to summarise, I think the low light performance of 550D is the bigger culprit than the lens in itself. Thank you , @samurai and @R2D2 for your views, comments and feedbacks.

Last edited by ampere : 6th May 2013 at 07:34.
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Old 6th May 2013, 07:38   #970
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Yesterday night, ampere and I were comparing pics over chat and commenting on sharpness, and wondering why I was getting better pics in lowlight without flash. Then we discovered that he was shooting at ISO200 and I was shooting at ISO1600.
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Old 6th May 2013, 08:26   #971
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Ampere I looked at the portrait samurai posted here and could see grains in lowlight.
How come you are getting worse then that ?
May be I can send you few pics with as low as 1/50 and sharp.

I am saying this because my 500D is lot behind 550d but still I find ISO 1600 usable.
550d is behind many newer nikon cams in high ISO performance but still till 1600 should be usable. The main advantage of olympus omd is 5 axis IBIS and not ISO performance.
And if you are feeling the difference at 50mm then there is some issue in handling technique.


Few tricks to get sharp pictures

1. Difference between 1600 and 800 iso is one stop if you want expose to left by using 800 and then recover using canon dpp and raw.

2. Keep your elbows close to chest inhale deep and dont breath while pressing shutter.
You should be able to go to around 1/50 with this.

3. Squeeze grip and shutter button together while clicking that minimizes shake.

4. Check the metering specially in low light. Use spot metering or centre weighted average.
You need to set exposure as per light on subject and not average as per low lights in frame.

If you still cant keep steady use tripod or move to IS lens or OM-D.

About ISO chroma noise at ISO 1600 , olympus does apply very aggressive in camera noise reduction. If you like that then change picture profile setting on your 550D by default it is low.

Last edited by amitk26 : 6th May 2013 at 08:37.
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Old 6th May 2013, 08:40   #972
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Ampere I looked at the portrait samurai posted here and could see grains in lowlight.
How come you are getting worse then that ?
May be I can send you few pics with as low as 1/50 and sharp.
1/50 is still sharp. Even for me. But may be I have not experimented enough with higher ISO. Let me try more.

Quote:
Few tricks to get sharp pictures
I can get pretty steady shots at 1/20 as well. So I think that part is fine. As I said earlier I need to try more explorations at high ISO. I default try to avoid it. Hence I may not have enough data points to make a comment.

Quote:
About ISO chroma noise at ISO 1600 , olympus does apply very aggressive in camera noise reduction. If you like that then change picture profile setting on your 550D by default it is low.
I have not changed picture styles. Thanks for that. Let me check that out.
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Old 6th May 2013, 09:02   #973
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

The following is the 100% crop of the ISO1600 @ F/1.8 image I had posted earlier. May be because I came from long line of Olympus dSLRs, I find the noise level perfectly acceptable for my needs.

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Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras-p4260010.jpg
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Old 6th May 2013, 10:26   #974
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Yes Samurai the noise level is acceptible and I think with 550D it should be similar level as well because I am getting from 500D with previous generation sensor.

If you see the bacground in the image you have posted there is certain noise in newer Sony sensors ( Nikon and Sony Cameras) image samples I have seen don't have even this amount of noise in low lights.

I think since 550D does not have IBIS the loss of sharpness which he explains is is due to vibrations , If there is no stablization at any shutter speed below 1/focal length it is bound to have this loss of sharpness, unless someone develops steady hands and follows sniper rifle shooting techniques.
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Old 6th May 2013, 20:02   #975
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Default re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

The logical extension to this discussion would be comparing micro four thirds with a recent full frame camera, no?

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/top...85/11#11502457

Pretty much sums it up for me, unless someone can convince me that Canon 50mm f1.8 on an APS-C is better than Canon 100mm f2 on 6D.
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