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Old 8th July 2013, 20:18   #1111
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by Ragul View Post
Here is a food sample taken standing over the table. How can I overcome the shallow DoF of the f/1.8 lens?

Thanks
--R
Move back a lot if you want more DOF at F1.8
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Old 8th July 2013, 20:20   #1112
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Move back a lot if you want more DOF at F1.8
Yeah, thats what I thought .. but sometimes its not possible if you want to fill the frame with the subject or the room is small ... I guess some cropping and editing is one choice.

Q: Will a 20mm f/1.8 lens at 12ft away give the same DoF of a 45mm f/1.8 at 12 ft distance? Or can shoot closer for the same DoF?

-R
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Old 8th July 2013, 20:27   #1113
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragul View Post
Here is a food sample taken standing over the table. How can I overcome the shallow DoF of the f/1.8 lens?
Increase the F-stop, or move back or keep the plane of the object parallel to the plane of the lens.

Here the plane of the object is parallel to the plane of the lens.

The Official Theme Photography Thread: Festival Spirit-p5251089.jpg


Or make use of the shallow dof.

The Official Theme Photography Thread: Festival Spirit-p52204732547519779o.jpg
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Old 8th July 2013, 20:48   #1114
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Increase the F-stop, or move back or keep the plane of the object parallel to the plane of the lens.
Thats the doubt I had - given a non zoom fixed focal length lens (edit: I meant with an absolute aperture of f/1.8, not like f/4.0-5.6), is it really possible to increase DoF by changing aperture? What happens on the sensor when I set a f/22 aperture in my camera with my lens fixed at f/1.8 to increase DoF?

I guess some googling is the need of the hour... (Edit: here is one useful link FYI: http://lewiscollard.com/technical/background-blur/)

PS: How do I get a subject sitting down in a chair to be in the same plane? Her knees are going to be at least 1 foot ahead of her face...

--R

Last edited by Ragul : 8th July 2013 at 21:01.
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Old 8th July 2013, 21:48   #1115
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by Ragul View Post
Yeah, thats what I thought .. but sometimes its not possible if you want to fill the frame with the subject or the room is small ... I guess some cropping and editing is one choice.

Q: Will a 20mm f/1.8 lens at 12ft away give the same DoF of a 45mm f/1.8 at 12 ft distance? Or can shoot closer for the same DoF?

-R
Increasing F stop is one solution but sometimes when light is low You may want to use lower F stop then moving back is the solution.

45mm is like 90mm on FF so not ideal for environment photography , May be you should try Panasonic-Leica 25mm lens that is 50mm FF equivelent.

I have 20mm Panasonic lens focal length choice is much better but lens has some distortion for trained eyes on Oly body.
Focal length is absolute number so some perspective distortion is unavoidable.
On Panasonic body applies auto correction to barrel distortion but on Olympus bodies it is visible. However correction in PS or in body can not cure perspective distortion.

This is the reason why people buy longer focal length and use it on wider sensors still.


I don't know much about Olympus 20 mm though
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Old 9th July 2013, 08:24   #1116
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by Ragul View Post
I have a problem with the 45mm f/1.8 lens. I cant take portraits with the subject even half-reclining or leaning back and with everything from head to knee (or toe) in focus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Increasing F stop is one solution but sometimes when light is low You may want to use lower F stop then moving back is the solution.


The same discussion which we had on the 50mm! (Recall you me and Samurai)
Here is what I learnt based on that :

- It all about the working distance and a trade-off between Low and High f number depending on the light
- A high f number would require high ISO and hence would then be limited by the amount of noise you can tolerate
- No lens is bad. We just need to know its best region of operation and use it in that range.
- We should not open aperture to let more light. We do it to change perspective. Its just that in that process we let in more light. (I used to think a fast lens is needed for pushing more light. But thankfully I learnt my lesson now)

This was precisely my problem with the 50mm. At f 1.8, if we need clarity of focus, we need to make sure the subject is parallel to the camera. Else it wont work. If not, thanks to very shallow DOF, we should a very tiny section of the image in sharp focus and the rest would get blurred. And as a result, we see a soft portrait and blame the lens (at least I used to do that before I learnt my lesson)

For example a 50mm at F2.8, if it cannot get the correct lighting for a given ISO, neither can a costly L series (say 85 mm 1.2). But since that lens (85mm) has the working distance going for it, it can capture details at the same settings maybe in a better way. And thanks to different optics, the image looks better. I used to think its just the lens which is performing better. But in actuality its the working distance and the change in focal length for the same setting which is helping. So in effect thinking that f 1.8 may help solve capture a low light scenario may not be the right approach.

Some of these working details were quite enlightening to me thanks to Samurai and yourself. And of course special thanks to Rudra-da. I am now able to appreciate my 50mm much better.

Do correct me if some arguments/thoughts seem flawed.

Last edited by ampere : 9th July 2013 at 08:52.
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Old 9th July 2013, 14:04   #1117
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Thanks guys. Thinking out loud on this thread helped me research a bit and I found some useful links that I need to work on practically - especially in the area of making working distance of my lenses a 2nd nature and part of intuition.

Just as an FYI for the others stumbling upon this topic here are some additional useful links that explain the concepts:

http://www.punitsinha.com/resource/a...al_length.html
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

Besides that I think I was confusing the f-stop number of the lens with the idea that all the shots will have a fixed aperture even though I have been using different apertures in the camera body, The above articles clarified that.

Going by the DoF calculator above, it would be a great exercise to setup up distance markers in a field and practice focusing at various distances to compare near-limit and far-limit of acceptable sharpness and training oneself to frame subjects at the hyperfocal distance of the lens.

Probably a great sunday picnic exercise if followed by a classroom session comparing each others lenses and resulting sharpness in the IQ, with shooting precise distance markers.

I do plan to get the 20mm lens soon btw. But the dollar price is holding me back now. I found 5 - 8ft the optimal distance for in-room portraits which the 20mm allows, and it suits shooting portraits in smaller rooms. But going by the DoF calculator, getting a good decent bokeh might be a challenge for the background with this lens unless the subject is in the middle of the room. How bad is the distortion of this lens at 5 ft? I only plan to shoot environmental portraits not close-ups.

With the 45mm I found myself behaving like spiderman in the room trying to find an angle to cover a full person who is reclining in sharp focus. 10 ft distance was barely enough provided the person is perfectly upright in the same plane and one has to be lucky to find a hotel room with that kind of space that is also a good background prop. The other thing I learnt is focus elsewhere a little ahead of the eyes to get areas like the knees also in focus and depend on the far-limit to keep the entire subject sharp.

PS: Which is the best school in Bangalore to learn fashion photography and typically how much will it cost?

--R

Last edited by Ragul : 9th July 2013 at 14:32.
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Old 12th July 2013, 12:38   #1118
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

I am planning to buy either Sony NEX 5R or Nikon J1 since these 2 have hybrid phase/contrast-detection for auto focus.
Which of these 2 has better selection of lenses - not with adapters but ones designed specifically designed for these camera mount.
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Old 12th July 2013, 13:38   #1119
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

The Sony is clearly the better one,Nikon J1 is half hearted effort by Nikon although it does have currently 4 more lenses then Sony.

NEX 5r is also one of the official camera Team Bhp uses for its 2013 Car Reviews.
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Old 15th July 2013, 13:27   #1120
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

@aim120 : thanks for the info. I am leaning towards nex too.

Is this electronic viewfinder of much use? because unlike dslr, isnt the image shown in evf same as the lcd one?
I was looking as nex-5r and nex-6 , and the difference is 10k. is spending 10k for EVF worth it?
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Old 15th July 2013, 14:54   #1121
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

The NEX-6 has OLED EVF with a much higher resolution then the LCD at the back.
When shooting in sunlight a EVF wins hands down.

The NEX-6 has a built in POP up Flash,where as in the NEX-5R you have to attach the included external flash.

You can also add a optional OLED EVF to the NEX-5R but it will cost around 18k to 20k.

However the NEX-6 lcd lacks touch screen and tilts upto 90 ,where as the NEX-5R gets a touchscreen and tilts 180.

To me the NEX-6 is still a better buy just for the OLED EVF and built in flash.
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Old 26th July 2013, 05:25   #1122
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Whew, so many posts.

Guys, wanted to surprise my wife with a DSLR as she was wanting it for long. I had almost finalized D5100 in Flipkart for 27k and then as always Team bhp has throw it out now. I am currently in the US and can get them from here too.

What would you guys suggest I should get her (India or US) for a 30k budget. Mostly she will use it to shoot my kids (indoor and outdoor) and outdoors when we go on a vacation. But I think she will use it more for indoor parties, social functions, kids etc.

Please suggest if it makes sense to buy in India or US. I see that Sony NX5 is available at 480$ here. Will it be as good as the Nikon D5100 in terms of image quality?
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Old 26th July 2013, 06:51   #1123
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Please suggest if it makes sense to buy in India or US.
The price difference between the US and India seems to have come down the last years, despite the rupee weakening. Having said that, I usually find photographic equipment to be cheaper in the US, also you get spoilt for choice of course.

Best do a few online price checks. In the US I buy most of my stuff here:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com

Their online service works really well and if you phone them for support you get to talk to somebody who actually knows quite a lot about all their products.

If you happen to be in NewYork, go a visit their Super Store. Pretty amazing, bring a credit card.

Jeroen
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Old 26th July 2013, 07:09   #1124
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Thanks buddy. Any recommendation on the model ?
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Old 26th July 2013, 07:57   #1125
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Go far Sony NEX 5R with 16-50mm lens. But don't bother buying in US, you can get in India with full warranty.

http://jjmehta.com/shop/Sony_NEX5R.html

It is very newbie friendly, you don't have to know photography. Check out our EcoSport review, it is entirely shot using the same combo, in auto mode.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...al-review.html (Ford EcoSport : Official Review)

Last edited by Samurai : 26th July 2013 at 08:00.
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