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Old 28th July 2013, 11:32   #1156
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Otherwise, as Samurai suggested get her a Nikon or Canon crop sensor DSLR & be done with it. At least you wont get blamed for bad photos or mishaps attributable to poor grip. Domestic peace will be assured
The difference in the image is that the time one needs to work on creating Jpegs from canon or nikon. Most of these mirrorless generate better Jpeg straight out and fuji to me is right there on top where my editing time has gone down by close to 90%. The from camera Jpeg at 4-5MB serves two purposes. Saves a lot of memory and saves a lot of time editing.

Here are few examples.


B&W by Heavenhated, on Flickr


Pattani by Heavenhated, on Flickr


Pattani by Heavenhated, on Flickr

All these are from the standard 18-55mm "KIT" lens. Which i feel is not exactly a kit lens, but more of a decent prime at 18F2.8 and 55mm @F4
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Old 28th July 2013, 12:36   #1157
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
The difference in the image is that the time one needs to work on creating Jpegs from canon or nikon. Most of these mirrorless generate better Jpeg straight out and fuji to me is right there on top where my editing time has gone down by close to 90%. The from camera Jpeg at 4-5MB serves two purposes. Saves a lot of memory and saves a lot of time editing.

All these are from the standard 18-55mm "KIT" lens. Which i feel is not exactly a kit lens, but more of a decent prime at 18F2.8 and 55mm @F4
+1 to what you've said above - Fuji's JPGs are usable straight OOTC and that calling that Fuji kit lens a kit lens would be insulting it. It's got fast optics for a kit lens and better constructed than glass we get with N/C kits.'

But there's the question of madbullram's listening to all this and biting into a slice of the delicious MLC pie. I love my MLC cameras as much as I do my Nikons.

BTW that's a lovely Beagle. Any colour photos?
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Old 28th July 2013, 12:38   #1158
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
And via a link in the blog/article above, i chanced upon yet another viewpoint from the reknowned Lloyd Chambers of digilloyd.com.

http://diglloyd.com/blog/2013/201307...ts-on-MFT.html
I found the above article very elitist and irritating. But felt very good when I saw the reply from Michael M.

I don't know anything about Lloyd Chambers, but I am sure he knows nothing about hobbyist photographers with a budget, who don't aspire to Fullframe or rarely print anything. The 4/3 sensor has been around for 10 years now, and has been only improving at every iteration, by leaps and bounds. I admit APS-C will remain superior forever in comparison, but if the 4/3 is more than adequate for hobbyist use, it becomes a moot point.

Consider a student with many extracurricular activities who has only scored 85% in academics. Then compare him/her with a book-worm with no extracurricular activities, who has scored 95% in academics. I will take the former over the latter every time. Hobbyists like me, who outnumber elitists like Lloyd Chambers by at least 100:1, if not more, want a system that gets most things right, and not get just one item perfect.

I found the following points very unfair:

Quote:
The M4/3 sensor size makes possible elegantly small compact cameras with high image quality but these do not exist.
Really? M4/3 cameras are not small?

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The M4/3 sensor size makes possible É/1.0 lenses with high quality, but these do not exist except as oddball specialty lenses made mainly for video.
A typical M4/3 user isn't clamoring for F/1.0 lenses. Don't judge our needs from a fullframe user's POV.

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The M4/3 sensor size allows É/2 lenses that are all but perfect wide open. These do not exist.
What is a perfect lens anyway? There are enough sub F/2 lens to keep most M4/3 users happy.

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M4/3 lenses are not any less expensive than APS-C!
Give the advantage of economy of scale by buying more M4/3 lenses, that too will happen.

As a long time 4/3 user (since 2006), this is nothing new for me. The 4/3 format and now the M4/3 format is always judged by professional fullframe users to be inadequate. That's like asking professional race drivers to judge consumer cars. In fact, reminds me of the time legendary rallyist Jagat Nanjappa commented on my Jeep's composite fiber leaf.

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Jagat: Howís the ride, it appears to be very soft. [shakes the Jeep side to side]
Me: Yeah, it is very soft. I loved it, I could literally ignore all the bad roads.
Jagat: It can be fixed by installing heavier shocks.
Me: What? No. I like the softer ride. [Then I go on repeating Jammyís logic of leafs doing all the work]

Didnít look like Jagat bought that argument. As a rally driver he would probably put handling characteristics way above ride comfort unlike us weekend warriors.
But hobbyists (with small budget) have a very different way of judging a camera. We want all-round performers like OMD-EM5, and not one trick ponies like Richo GR.
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Old 28th July 2013, 13:05   #1159
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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I found the above article very elitist and irritating. But felt very good when I saw the reply from Michael M.

That's like asking professional race drivers to judge consumer cars. In fact, reminds me of the time legendary rallyist Jagat Nanjappa commented on my Jeep's composite fiber leaf.

But hobbyists (with small budget) have a very different way of judging a camera. We want all-round performers like OMD-EM5, and not one trick ponies like Richo GR.
Agreed, Lloyd is certainly a snooty creature and your analogy with the needs of Jagat and yourself is spot on. If you get a chance to read Lloyd's subscription only reviews on lenses from Leica, Zeiss and other EU brands it will probably explain why.

Amateurs of more modest means have different needs and budgets. If Lloyd didnt pass controversial judgements on MLCs and other "lesser" systems he wouldnt get people to pay high priced subcriptions for the honour of viewing his opinions.

I am sure he knows that Leica too isnt doing too well but from what I've read the majority shareholder is an Austrian billionaire Dr. Andreas Kaufmann who, many say, has invested in Leica to indulge in one of his rather expensive hobbies. How long Leica lives will probably depend on the whims and fancy of this person.

I pay more attention to what Thom Hogan has to say. Of course one may not agree with him, but he's a lot more balanced than folks like KR. I like reading Ming Thein and Nasim Mansurov too. These guys are really knowledgeable and balanced although not as experienced as Thom.

PS - I wouldnt touch a Ricoh with a bargepole even if it had a sensor the size of a paperback novel.

Last edited by R2D2 : 28th July 2013 at 13:07.
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Old 28th July 2013, 14:30   #1160
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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BTW that's a lovely Beagle. Any colour photos?
There you go.


Pattani by Heavenhated, on Flickr


Pattani 7 by Heavenhated, on Flickr


Pattani 7 by Heavenhated, on Flickr


Refresh by Heavenhated, on Flickr
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Old 28th July 2013, 21:41   #1161
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
There you go.
Thank you very much VW2010. Your doggie is a cute little fella Are these photos taken using the Fuji or the Canon camera?

Well, I think you'd have known by now that I love dogs (and other animals too). We havent kept one since my dog died, way back in 1995. That was quite simply heart breaking.

It is so tempting to get one when I see photos of cute little fellas like your Beagle.

Last edited by R2D2 : 28th July 2013 at 21:42.
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Old 29th July 2013, 19:27   #1162
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

SUCCESS GUYS. Finally, had agreed for Mirrorless. Now I am confused between 5N, 5R, and C3. C3 is cheapest. Any advice why 5R over N? Also, in ebay 5R commands almost 50-60% in price difference

VW2010: Those are some lovely pics which helped me convince my wife Thanks

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
The point I am trying to make is that you'll be able to get a used NEX5R at a very reasonable price. Better you try this route instead of a brand new unit so even if your wife hates it, you can either keep it as a backup camera or sell it off.
Even the used but good ones in ebay go for 400-450$ thats around 26k INR. New ones in India (with 16-50mm) is at 35k with 2 years Sony Warranty and 0% 6 months EMI. Thats the other thing thats confusing me. God, I thought only automobiles confuse us but now we have clear option when we need something, this is getting more murky

Last edited by madbullram : 29th July 2013 at 19:33.
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Old 29th July 2013, 20:07   #1163
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

@R2D2.. Here are few more from Mirroless and Canon for you to convince yourself to get a friend of your own

Fuji


Tried a different filter by Heavenhated, on Flickr


Pattani by Heavenhated, on Flickr


Soft filter with -1 sharpness by Heavenhated, on Flickr


Canon Pictures

Pattani 5 by Heavenhated, on Flickr


Am i that good? by Heavenhated, on Flickr


the ears.... by Heavenhated, on Flickr


BOEING 747 take off.. by Heavenhated, on Flickr


MR Pattani by Heavenhated, on Flickr
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Old 29th July 2013, 20:30   #1164
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by madbullram View Post
SUCCESS GUYS. Finally, had agreed for Mirrorless. Now I am confused between 5N, 5R, and C3. C3 is cheapest. Any advice why 5R over N? Also, in ebay 5R commands almost 50-60% in price difference
The C3 is the oldest,so its cheaper and it also lacks a touchscreen.
The 5N has no built in wifi and it also doesn't support apps.
The 5R has wifi , apps and also has Phase detect AF.

If you want a cheaper NEX look at NEX F3 or NEX 3N(3N has lower resolution LCD vs others) they both have built in Flash but no touchscreen or app support.
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Old 29th July 2013, 20:47   #1165
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3N people talk about not able to see in bright sunlight
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Old 29th July 2013, 21:43   #1166
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Consider only NEX5R or NEX6, rest are already old news. Sony has the bad habit of selling old models along with new ones.
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Old 29th July 2013, 21:50   #1167
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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SUCCESS GUYS. Even the used but good ones in ebay go for 400-450$ thats around 26k INR. New ones in India (with 16-50mm) is at 35k with 2 years Sony Warranty and 0% 6 months EMI. Thats the other thing thats confusing me. God, I thought only automobiles confuse us but now we have clear option when we need something, this is getting more murky
Who ever said making a choice with camera systems is simple? It's pretty much just as confusing as automobiles as you have just found out.

If she's firm about her choice of MLCs go in for the Sony NEX 5R. The other NEX 5 models are dinosaurs. Most digital cameras change every 12-18 months so it always pays to get the latest & greatest unless you have a very strict budget.

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@R2D2.. Here are few more from Mirroless and Canon for you to convince yourself to get a friend of your own
The little fellow is adorable! Thanks a lot! Hope to keep a pet some day soon.
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Old 29th July 2013, 23:59   #1168
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Bought an Amazon Warehouse Item (not used but minor damage to box) for 400$.
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Old 30th July 2013, 01:50   #1169
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Guys: I learnt that you can buy adapters so that you can use regular Canon or Nikon DSLR lens. Can you let me know what I should purchase? We have a friend who rents lens, this will help my wife to try different lenses on 5N
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Old 30th July 2013, 03:07   #1170
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Guys: I learnt that you can buy adapters so that you can use regular Canon or Nikon DSLR lens. Can you let me know what I should purchase? We have a friend who rents lens, this will help my wife to try different lenses on 5N
That's only for fitting the lenses. Autofocus etc will not work. Only buy lenses that have all mechanical controls (aperture, focus, zoom etc). Just look for nex adapters on eBay.
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