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Old 21st August 2013, 12:01   #1201
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

I am in a fix.

I own a Canon 1000D with the normal 1855 kit lens. This says that i am an amateur photographer. But now i want to get more out of my photos and get some better gear. I was never happy with the sharpness of the 18-55. I was keen on getting a 50mm 1.4 from Canon since i mostly take portraits, objects, street etc. and sometimes landscape and buildings (for which i had my eyes on 10-22mm).

But after reading this thread, DPReview and other blogs i noticed that mirrorless cameras offer almost similar (to my untrained eye) shots with amazing clarity and add HD video shooting (my 1000D is photo only). All of this in a compact body which is less intrusive between me and the subject.

I want to ask some questions to VW2010 and other gurus who have both the system (EVIL and DSLR):

1. I want to invest only once - so does it make sense to invest in EVIL now?
2. I will take scenery, landscape, portraits and regular street photography - is EVIL cameras enough to give me the results a amateur/hobbyist photographer long for?
3. If i choose EVIL - i am confused between Sony NEX-6 or the Fujufilm X-E1? Or should i go for Fuji X-Pro1?
4. EVIL cameras are expensive - Canon 60D - $600 in amazon compared to Fuji X-e1 at the same price. Does being equally expensive justify the cost of EVIL cameras?

Look forward to suggestions
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Old 21st August 2013, 12:17   #1202
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

I sold most of my dSLR gear last year, and moved to mirrorless. But I still have one dSLR with couple lenses. Also have two mirrorless with 4 lenses.

My answers to your points:

1) Yes, since last year there is enough traction to invest only in Mirrorless.
2) With the exception of wildlife photography & sports action, mirrorless lenses can handle most situations.
3) If you are choosing between Sony and Fuji, I don't have the experience to advice.
4) Yes, mirrorless is slightly more expensive than dSLRs. But compactness is a feature that you should be willing to pay for. If you don't want to pay extra for compactness, stay with dSLRs.

Last edited by Samurai : 21st August 2013 at 12:49.
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Old 21st August 2013, 12:35   #1203
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyper-VTEC View Post
2. I will take scenery, landscape, portraits and regular street photography - is EVIL cameras enough to give me the results a amateur/hobbyist photographer long for?
3. If i choose EVIL - i am confused between Sony NEX-6 or the Fujufilm X-E1? Or should i go for Fuji X-Pro1?
I can't help you with Sony - but the Fuji isn't recommended for the all round needs you seem to have. Their entire line up has a lot of quirks, and autofocus can be frustrating. I have the x100, and I like it immensely, but there are many occasions when only my DSLR is fast/good enough. Fuji is brilliant for careful picture taking.

No personal experience, but lots of good reports about the Olympus OMD, pricing also seems to be more reasonable now than in the past.
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Old 21st August 2013, 12:41   #1204
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

@Hyper.

I own both the Canon and Fuji system. I have hyper expensive Canon set up and a pretty simple Fuji X1 with 18-55 lens. I will try to consolidate the overall usage of both the systems.

Pro Canon:-
Extremely fast system with respect to operation, AF and readiness to use.
Great support in used community for getting cheaper lenses.
One of the easiest software ever made that can be used by anyone. DPP(Which i even use for Fuji in JPEG's sometime)

Pro Fuji:-
Exceptional image quality. Read it as comparable to any high end dslr.
Exceptional ease of usage and the need to stop shooting RAW starts with these EVIL cameras, specially the Fuji. I have stopped using RAW and the JPEG is so much tweakable in the camera.
Extremely small and easy to carry.
Ease of use is understated that my wife who has no clue about DSLR uses the Fuji not knowing its a DSLR.
Teaching curve is so easy in the Fuji that she now uses A mode of TV mode not knowing she has started to shoot semi manual.
Built in flash is brilliant and the ability to bounce the flash in Fuji works very well.
The biggest difference is the AWB from this camera. Hardly you need to worry about correcting color.
Accurate AF though slow.
Unbelievable kit lens and zoom lens. In FUji system u may only need the 18-55 and 55-200 to take care of all your needs.
And slowly adding a 35mm and a 14mm is not a bad idea

Cons of Evil/Fuji. cannot comment on NEX.

Very slow AF suitable for any non action shots. Action shots now need user skill more than camera skill

Most importantly, you dont invest in electronics. You just spend.

For the type of photography you have mentioned my suggestion is pick the fuji x1 with 18-55. Even better the combination that is available above at that price is damn interesting.
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Old 21st August 2013, 13:18   #1205
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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
For the type of photography you have mentioned my suggestion is pick the fuji x1 with 18-55. Even better the combination that is available above at that price is damn interesting.
Oh dear, you really are a Fuji fan, aren't you?!
To the questioner, I would recommend some research on the Fuji, starting with this:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilm-x-pro1/26
Since I have the x100 for a year now, I can relate to this admirable summary quite well. Fuji yields impeccable image quality, and makes cameras that look cool, and are a joy to use - once you have mastered the quirks, or learnt how to work around them.
Lots of people end up moving away from Fuji, even with regret, because they don't find themselves getting enough of a percentage of pictures that are called "Kodak moments". Because at the end of the day, that's what it is all about.
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Old 21st August 2013, 13:26   #1206
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

@Sawyer..

I have become a fuji fan. The ease of use, retro look and my Kodak moments have been really worth the purchase.

I cannot share some of those pictures but all i can say is i have taken over 1000 pictures in the last 20 days with the Fuji and the same number with my canon over the last 1 year


The best part is running the camera in full auto mode like a P&S and still creating amazing pictures because of the quality of the 18-55 lens.

B&W by Heavenhated, on Flickr

Last edited by VW2010 : 21st August 2013 at 13:27.
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Old 21st August 2013, 13:58   #1207
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

In my OM-D, I can shoot indoor shots like this without flash. Shot a F/1.8 - 1/100 - ISO250. So I am pretty much content for the next few years.

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Old 21st August 2013, 14:24   #1208
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Here at two of mine - one by the Fujix100, the other - Nikon D7000.
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Sawyer : 21st August 2013 at 14:26.
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Old 21st August 2013, 14:25   #1209
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

@samurai,

Very good picture. Nice DOF and good image clarity.

Yellow's are pretty well exposed as well.
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Old 21st August 2013, 16:09   #1210
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I sold most of my dSLR gear last year, and moved to mirrorless. But I still have one dSLR with couple lenses
Whoa! I wish i could have that much M to own this kind of gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
Cons of Evil/Fuji. cannot comment on NEX.

Very slow AF suitable for any non action shots. Action shots now need user skill more than camera skill
I read in DPReview Cons of XPro1 that it has dysfunctional manual focus. Do they mean, you cannot manually focus on a Fuji or for that matter EVIL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilm-x-pro1/26
Since I have the x100 for a year now, I can relate to this admirable summary quite well. Fuji yields impeccable image quality, and makes cameras that look cool, and are a joy to use - once you have mastered the quirks, or learnt how to work around them
Request you to highlight the quirks you taking about, This will help me make a decision.
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Old 21st August 2013, 16:13   #1211
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by hyper-VTEC View Post
Whoa! I wish i could have that much M to own this kind of gear.
What do you mean? The Fuji you are considering, is lot more expensive than my OM-D.
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Old 21st August 2013, 16:51   #1212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyper-VTEC View Post
Request you to highlight the quirks you taking about, This will help me make a decision.
Let me ask you a counter question - why are you looking at Fuji over, say, Olympus OMD or EPL5? Your answers will help in a response.
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Old 21st August 2013, 17:05   #1213
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

There is no comparison directly between the OM-D and Fuji. OM-D has something the fuji cannot rival including better AF, faster frame rates, Build in IS and few other chinks that Fuji cannot match.

THe image sensor in Fuji is bigger and on a straight comparsion it may be 1 stop better in Noise above say 3200.

And as Samurai said, OM-D is cheaper.

I went with fuji because i wanted to. And i have no ways to sell them without a huge loss which means i am stuck in an indirect way.

We have a new born and my wife is absolutely loving the Fuji. 1000 odd pictures in 15 days is nothing short of work load that i would expect from my wife who hates cameras and operating them.

You will not go wrong with OM-D or Fuji.

OM-D - My only advice is to ensure you have the right glass as well as there are some mediocre lens in 4/3rds.

Fuji - AF is going to be mostly MF like and cost is high.

You have to chose based on your budget for both the camera belt out brilliant images, and their form factor is highly comparable. I am also guessing the OM-D is weather sealed which means if you get the right weather sealed lens you are good to shoot in rain as well
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Old 21st August 2013, 17:10   #1214
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
What do you mean? The Fuji you are considering, is lot more expensive than my OM-D.
I have not decided on the Fuji yet. I may get the X-E1 and not the X-Pro1. Not sure if the latter deserve the double price.

I will sell off the dSLR if i get the EVIL, not manage to keep both of them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
Let me ask you a counter question - why are you looking at Fuji over, say, Olympus OMD or EPL5? Your answers will help in a response.
As i mentioned earlier i am a novice/amateur in photography. I noticed the 4/3 to have a smaller sensor hence assumed they will have inferior IQ. I will look at these as well. In pictures the OMD looks bigger than the competition, i need to look at them in person.
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Old 21st August 2013, 19:01   #1215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyper-VTEC View Post
As i mentioned earlier i am a novice/amateur in photography. I noticed the 4/3 to have a smaller sensor hence assumed they will have inferior IQ.
Since m4/3 sensor is not big enough for your purpose, you can safely eliminate Olympus & Panasonic offerings from your consideration.

That will leave you with Sony NEX, Fuji, Samsung NX and Canon EOS-M. There is also a rumour about full frame mirrorless NEX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
Very good picture. Nice DOF and good image clarity.

Yellow's are pretty well exposed as well.
Thanks, the prime lenses from Zuiko are really good.
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