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Old 21st August 2013, 19:21   #1216
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

The full frame NEX would be over 1L. And for that price the OM-D with a super good wide angle like the 12mm F2.0 will take care of the wide angle needs on the 2X sensor.

I went with Fuji because of retro look of the camera and the silver/black body i wanted to own. Secondly the lenses were a reason to go after fuji and the kit proved more like primes at different FL.
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Old 21st August 2013, 20:03   #1217
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
The full frame NEX would be over 1L. And for that price the OM-D with a super good wide angle like the 12mm F2.0 will take care of the wide angle needs on the 2X sensor.
But it is still on a m4/3 sensor that doesn't address his needs.

If his budget is smaller, he can stick to NEX, but can go for Fuji on a bigger budget.
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Old 21st August 2013, 20:56   #1218
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by hyper-VTEC View Post
As i mentioned earlier i am a novice/amateur in photography. I noticed the 4/3 to have a smaller sensor hence assumed they will have inferior IQ. I will look at these as well. In pictures the OMD looks bigger than the competition, i need to look at them in person.
A few years ago small sensors meant inferior IQ. That doesn't hold true any more.

Trust me, the Olympus has great IQ like the Fuji XE-1. I have both these cameras plus a Nikon FX kit. I love using the Fuji & Olympus. There are plenty of professionals abroad who have shifted from Canikon to one of these compact MLC systems.

Samurai, VW2010 and Sawyer have enumerated the +/- points of the Olympus and Fuji very well. Give their feedback serious consideration whilst making a choice. Remember, you wont go wrong with either of these systems. However, if you want DSLR like performance in terms of AF, image stabilisation etc. then the Olympus wins.

Good luck with your decision making process.

Cheers!
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Old 21st August 2013, 22:44   #1219
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

What is the shutter lag like in the latest EVIL cameras ?

Let us say for a Point n shoot if it is 10 and DSLR 0 , where do the EVIL cameras rank ?
Ps: pardon my own unit rating of 10 - 0

Also is there considerable difference in shutter lag across brands ?
i.e. Sony NEX series vs Olympus vs Fuji

One thing I would like to get rid of when upgrading from a point n shoot to EVIL is being able to capture those moments with instant clicks.
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Old 21st August 2013, 23:01   #1220
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by Fillmore View Post
What is the shutter lag like in the latest EVIL cameras ?

One thing I would like to get rid of when upgrading from a point n shoot to EVIL is being able to capture those moments with instant clicks.
Shutter lag is measured in milliseconds and you will need to adapt those readings to your scale of 1-10. An example

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PROD.../omd-em5A6.HTM

Lag time depends from model to model. Any late model mid to high end EVIL camera would be faster than nearly every ordinary PNS. High end niche PNS cameras like the Sony RX1 or RX100 may be very responsive. But I am not sure how much.

Last edited by R2D2 : 21st August 2013 at 23:03.
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Old 21st August 2013, 23:18   #1221
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by Fillmore View Post
Let us say for a Point n shoot if it is 10 and DSLR 0 , where do the EVIL cameras rank ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaging-resource
Bottom line, the Olympus E-M5's performance was very good for its class. Autofocus and shot-to-shot performance was competitive with SLRs, while burst speed was faster than most SLRs.
Well, you decide where it goes.

Edit: I am constantly amused that people think mirrorless is an inferior alternative to dSLR. It is merely an compact alternative to amateur or semi-pro dSLRs. In fact, when I moved from my dSLR to mirrorless, I upgraded.

Last edited by Samurai : 21st August 2013 at 23:34.
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Old 21st August 2013, 23:58   #1222
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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In fact, when I moved from my dSLR to mirrorless, I upgraded.
Same here. And the fact that the family can now use the camera and start taking professional looking pictures, makes them happy and they suggest and request for specific lenses sometimes makes it easier to buy as well

Mirrorless are the future for most of the needs

My favorite lens on Fuji is the 85F1.2 of canon with an adapter and the 16-35mm lens which is way better on my Fuji compared to my canon
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Old 22nd August 2013, 00:11   #1223
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Edit: I am constantly amused that people think mirrorless is an inferior alternative to dSLR. It is merely an compact alternative to amateur or semi-pro dSLRs.
And for this state of affairs I blame the manufacturers. I've never seen an OMD EM5 advertisement in print or on TV. Or for that matter an ad for any other MLC product. Many people don't even know Oly/Fuji et al make MLCs. They are more well known as PNS camera manufacturers. The Nikon 1's pricing is/was ridiculous.

If these companies don't do their bit to popularise their MLCs by eradicating popular misconceptions they will be the sufferers in the end.

This has had its impact in arguably the largest camera market - the US.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2013/....html?hp&_r=2&

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/...scratcher.html

Last edited by R2D2 : 22nd August 2013 at 00:13.
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Old 22nd August 2013, 02:20   #1224
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Interesting discussion so far. I have Fuji, Oly and Nex. As soon as Oly releases a firmware to enable focus peaking for my OM-D, I'll sell the Nex. I use Nex exclusively for macro photography because of peaking but I don't use it otherwise. It doesn't inspire me at all. It's too blah.

As far as the "decisive moment" or the "Kodak moment" goes, I find it a little hard to digest that people actually think they'll miss a shot with Fuji. From my experience, it isn't as simple as spraying and praying. You need to work your composition, the light, the settings and then wait. And wait. And wait. So, to me, the not-so-great AF on Fuji is not a factor at all as I don't use it to do action photography. I use it because of ease of use and pretty amazing IQ. If HCB could capture so many moments with his RF camera, then I'm sure we should be able to do much better than him with our AF cameras no matter how bad it is.

The whole inferior IQ because of 4/3rds sensor argument has reached such a ridiculous level that I have given up trying to convince others what it is capable of. I'm just happy that it lets me make images which I and my non-paying clients (family and friends) are extremely happy with. So, I don't have much to complain about I guess.

PS: A while ago, I realized that it helps to take gear advice from people you look up to in terms of photography. It has worked well for me as I have found most people who complain on the internet about gear are not good photographers to begin with. Yes, they know a lot about gear, but I don't care about minor differences as long as I can get the maximum out of gear I choose.

R2D2,
You're right about the manufacturers not pushing/advertising their products enough. I hope that changes for good.


Has anyone updated their FW on their Fuji cameras to the latest one? Any reviews of the focus peaking feature?

EDIT: Also, is there a shutter lag in any of these MILC cameras? AFAIK, there shouldn't be any, there could be lag due to EVF though.

Last edited by HellwratH : 22nd August 2013 at 02:21.
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Old 22nd August 2013, 06:46   #1225
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Quote:
Has anyone updated their FW on their Fuji cameras to the latest one? Any reviews of the focus peaking feature?
Please update your firmware. The AF-C mode is now very very very accurate and MF is a better with focus peaking.

There are other updates including the lens firmware and the 18-55 is definitely faster post the firmware update.

Contrast based AF still struggles at low contrast and you have to live that in Fuji
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Old 22nd August 2013, 09:10   #1226
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
A few years ago small sensors meant inferior IQ. That doesn't hold true any more.
I stand corrected. After reading OMD reviews and looking at the sample images by photographers i was

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Samurai, VW2010 and Sawyer have enumerated the +/- points of the Olympus and Fuji very well. Give their feedback serious consideration whilst making a choice. Remember, you wont go wrong with either of these systems. However, if you want DSLR like performance in terms of AF, image stabilisation etc. then the Olympus wins.
Yes now it seems a battle between Oly and Fuji. I am now looking at the price points at which i can "spend" on these VS upgrading the gear with available 1000D. Need to inform and convince the FM as well
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Old 22nd August 2013, 09:31   #1227
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by hyper-VTEC View Post
I own a Canon 1000D with the normal 1855 kit lens. This says that i am an amateur photographer. But now i want to get more out of my photos and get some better gear. I was never happy with the sharpness of the 18-55. I was keen on getting a 50mm 1.4 from Canon since i mostly take portraits, objects, street etc. and sometimes landscape and buildings (for which i had my eyes on 10-22mm).
There is another approach you could consider.
I don't mean to be patronising so don't take this amiss - you could spend some time trying to get better results out of the above.
I don't know Canon, but I can't think it will be a great deal different from similar Nikon kit, esp the Nikon 18-55 kit lens, which is a vastly underestimated but very good picture taker. Anyone not getting enough sharpness from it, up to an advanced amateur level of expectation, needs to first eliminate all reasons arising from picture taking technique before blaming the glass. As for zoom range limitations, there is lot you can do with your feet by moving around to get the frame you are looking for. You should also be able to find a decent used Canon 1.8 prime for not much spend, to further enhance picture taking skills.
The time spent in getting better with this kit may lead you to reevaluate things, at a much lower initial outlay. Even if it doesn't, becoming a better picture taker will only be helpful when you do go in a different direction, whichever that may end up being. And any defects in technique, if uncorrected, are not going to be addressed by equipment change, no matter how much you spend.

Last edited by Sawyer : 22nd August 2013 at 09:36.
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Old 22nd August 2013, 10:28   #1228
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by hyper-VTEC View Post
Yes now it seems a battle between Oly and Fuji. I am now looking at the price points at which i can "spend" on these VS upgrading the gear with available 1000D. Need to inform and convince the FM as well
Do note, buying a new MLC kit will not necessarily result in better pics.

That said, the Fuji XE1 kit is substantially more expensive than the Olympus. In fact its priced at what a good DX/crop sensor DSLR, for e.g. a Canon EOS 7D would cost. Fuji thinks of it (and the X Pro 1) as a poor man's Leica and I agree. From the build quality and OOTB experience. It is very Leica-ish. Oly has a tough body with lenses that are a bit "plasticky" but good to excellent performers. Fuji's lenses are made of metal. Even their kit zoom is anything but a kit in performance and build.

A big +1 to what Sawyer has said below. Use what you already have instead of going in for a new system. You could utilise that money for a nice set of VFM Canon lens. Do remember that owning multiple systems is an expensive proposition & buying good lenses is a better decision than buying a new camera body.

Of course if its gear acquisition syndrome (GAS) at work here then our words wont help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
And any defects in technique, if uncorrected, are not going to be addressed by equipment change, no matter how much you spend.
+100

Quote:
Originally Posted by HellwratH View Post
As soon as Oly releases a firmware to enable focus peaking for my OM-D, I'll sell the Nex.
There seems to be a workaround to the lack of FP in the Oly. You may/may not know about it. But I am providing a link for the benefit of other Oly owners.

http://www.mu-43.com/f92/focus-peaki...-d-e-m5-35442/

Quote:
Originally Posted by HellwratH View Post
Has anyone updated their FW on their Fuji cameras to the latest one? Any reviews of the focus peaking feature?
I've been too lazy to update the camera and lenses. Will do so ASAP. Photography has taken a backseat for now.
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Old 22nd August 2013, 10:49   #1229
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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You should also be able to find a decent used Canon 1.8 prime
I started learning with a 20D and 50mm Prime and had that combination for the first year. Basically taught myself to take better pictures with the same set up.

I still recommend similar start for some of my friends and even we conduct 1 day photo outing with only one prime lens.
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Old 22nd August 2013, 11:09   #1230
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Look at this Samsung NX 10mm F3.5 Fisheye lens it is smallest and slimmest AF fisheye lens for APS-C

http://www.samsung.com/uk/news/local...-for-nx-system

The line up of Samsung NX lenses is quite good now though a 10-20 rectilinear lens and a 100 mm macro would have been much better

, Copied below from same link
- Ultra Wide Zoom Lens Samsung 12-24mm F4-5.6 ED
- Standard Zoom Lens Samsung 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 OIS III
- Standard Zoom Lens Samsung 20-50mm F3.5-5.6 ED II
- Telephoto Zoom Lens Samsung 50-200mm F4-5.6 ED OIS III
- Super Zoom Lens Samsung 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 ED OIS
- Ultra Wide Prime Lens Samsung 16mm F2.4
- Wide Prime Lens Samsung 20mm F2.8
- Standard Prime Lens Samsung 45mm F1.8
- Standard Prime Lens Samsung 30mm F2
- Standard Prime Lens Samsung 45mm F1.8 2D / 3D
- Telephoto Prime Lens Samsung 85mm F1.4 ED SSA
- Macro Lens Samsung 60mm F2.8 Macro ED OIS SSA
- Fisheye Lens Samsung 10mm F3.5 *Will be available from 2H of 2013

Last edited by amitk26 : 22nd August 2013 at 11:17. Reason: Panasonic has 8mm Fisheye.
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