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Old 24th August 2013, 16:55   #1246
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Let's just say I don't trust myself with the Fuji x100 to take such an action shot - I would use the d7000. That's why I am keen to get some tips from the picture taker -although said shot is from a DSLR - who is migrating to a Fuji that shares traits with the x100, AFAIK.
The Fuji traits aren't typical of mirror less, they are of Fuji. From all accounts, the OMD should be capable of such a capture. Perhaps.

Last edited by Sawyer : 24th August 2013 at 16:56.
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Old 25th August 2013, 16:41   #1247
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Picked up a NEX-5.

This morning went for a walk into a small semi forest kind of area near my house, and clicked the following.

Interestingly came across a snake too and took a few pics, included one.

These are all with the kit lens 16-50mm, still experimenting.

The crawly friend
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From the floor
Name:  Floor.JPG
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To the sky
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Close up of a wild flower
Name:  Flower.JPG
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Old 25th August 2013, 18:26   #1248
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Read some reviews of the EVIL cameras on reputed camera equipment sites . The main disadvantages they say are focussing of moving objects especially in low light conditions. For example kids playing inside house etc. I currently have a canon S5 IS,which is a prosumer camera, and i find its focussing pretty decent in low light like marriage functions, house parties etc.Obsiously anything over ISO 400 is no use since there will be too much graining in the pics.But the slow flash recharge time seriously affects taking continuous shots of important events in low light(Takes nearly 10-15 seconds to recharge between flashes). I am not worried about outdoor photography where light is in plenty.

Keeping these in mind, would it be better for me to invest into a EVIL system or go for DSLR system?
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Old 25th August 2013, 21:06   #1249
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Quote:
For example kids playing inside house etc
To be very honest here, even the DSLR will struggle in low light. Low light, high ISO is good for still images. It prevents shake because of low ISO giving you some room say till 1/100 or so.

Freezing action is a different part of technique which will require an external flash.

Except the Olympus Evil the rest are pretty poor for action photography.

I just got my 35mm and 60mm lens on Fuji. The kit lens is atleast 5 times faster and the kit lens is atleast 100 times slower than some of the canon lens i have for tracking subject.

Not just the lens, the camera is not meant for tracking subjects. You can use your skills where you pre focus, predict and shoot. I will post some action shots from my Evil. I would say the hit miss ratio will be very poor comparing it to any DSLR.

The Evil cameras are as good as using some old AF Macro lenses for tracking at its best.

Flash is the solution to your problem irrespective what you chose.
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Old 26th August 2013, 06:54   #1250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post

To be very honest here, even the DSLR will struggle in low light. Low light, high ISO is good for still images. It prevents shake because of low ISO giving you some room say till 1/100 or so.

Freezing action is a different part of technique which will require an external flash.

Except the Olympus Evil the rest are pretty poor for action photography.

I just got my 35mm and 60mm lens on Fuji. The kit lens is atleast 5 times faster and the kit lens is atleast 100 times slower than some of the canon lens i have for tracking subject.

Not just the lens, the camera is not meant for tracking subjects. You can use your skills where you pre focus, predict and shoot. I will post some action shots from my Evil. I would say the hit miss ratio will be very poor comparing it to any DSLR.

The Evil cameras are as good as using some old AF Macro lenses for tracking at its best.

Flash is the solution to your problem irrespective what you chose.
Ok. Coming to the flash, how is the recharge time of the flashes in the EVIL cameras? Compared to an equivalent price range dslr?

Because I Will be holding onto the camera system for a very long time, ten years perhaps, I want to be pretty sure in what Will fulfill my need.
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Old 26th August 2013, 09:28   #1251
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
Read some reviews of the EVIL cameras on reputed camera equipment sites . The main disadvantages they say are focussing of moving objects especially in low light conditions. For example kids playing inside house etc.
Functionally, mirrorless is nothing but compact dSLR. Being a newer system, they have lot less lens options. Other than that, there is hardly a difference. Mirrorless can't handle lowlight action photography because neither can dSLR.

There is also a question of being prepared. If you are into action photography, you have to keep the camera in C-AF and shutter priority, and use a fast lens. Since I am not into action shoots, I usually keep it in S-AF and aperture priority. Suddenly if I want action shot, I am in the wrong mode. This happened last weekend when I suddenly had to shoot action using my slowest lens in overcast weather, and as a result most action shots are slightly shaky.

Check the action shots very closely: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ex...rain-free.html (Udupi Offroaders go nuts in the rain... for FREE)
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Old 26th August 2013, 10:34   #1252
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Functionally, mirrorless is nothing but compact dSLR. Being a newer system, they have lot less lens options. Other than that, there is hardly a difference. Mirrorless can't handle lowlight action photography because neither can dSLR.

There is also a question of being prepared. If you are into action photography, you have to keep the camera in C-AF and shutter priority, and use a fast lens. Since I am not into action shoots, I usually keep it in S-AF and aperture priority. Suddenly if I want action shot, I am in the wrong mode. This happened last weekend when I suddenly had to shoot action using my slowest lens in overcast weather, and as a result most action shots are slightly shaky.

Check the action shots very closely: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ex...rain-free.html (Udupi Offroaders go nuts in the rain... for FREE)

But since the sensor size of a DSLR is bigger than that of EVIL, should it not translate into better/faster focussing under low light for say similar apertures on both the lenses?
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Old 26th August 2013, 10:44   #1253
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Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
But since the sensor size of a DSLR is bigger than that of EVIL, should it not translate into better/faster focussing under low light for say similar apertures on both the lenses?
Sensor size has nothing to do with AF speed medium format cameras are some of the slowest to focus.
DSLRs have faster focus but not due to sensor size Phase Detection AF is faster then contrast detection AF but in newer Mirrorless and with hybrid technologies gap is filling fast.

For overall daily usage mirror less is a good solution but , If action photography and telephoto is the passion you want to pursue DSLR is what you should choose. The reason is lack of decent telephotos in mirrorless systems.


The longest lens AFAIK is Olympus 70-300 , Theoretically It is equivalent to 600mm lens on FF but the image quality is pathetically bad. In fact this should be worst Olympus lens ever IQ wise.

And it does not stand up to Canon 70-300 / 100-400 Standards even Sigma 150-500 is better in some cases. You will get better images by cropping from 300mm lens on a DSLR. I was interested in buying this lens at one point but backed off after brief trial.
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Old 26th August 2013, 11:06   #1254
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Sensor size has nothing to do with AF speed medium format cameras are some of the slowest to focus.
DSLRs have faster focus but not due to sensor size Phase Detection AF is faster then contrast detection AF but in newer Mirrorless and with hybrid technologies gap is filling fast.

For overall daily usage mirror less is a good solution but , If action photography and telephoto is the passion you want to pursue DSLR is what you should choose. The reason is lack of decent telephotos in mirrorless systems.


The longest lens AFAIK is Olympus 70-300 , Theoretically It is equivalent to 600mm lens on FF but the image quality is pathetically bad. In fact this should be worst Olympus lens ever IQ wise.

And it does not stand up to Canon 70-300 / 100-400 Standards even Sigma 150-500 is better in some cases. You will get better images by cropping from 300mm lens on a DSLR. I was interested in buying this lens at one point but backed off after brief trial.

OK. Thanks for the info.

I would be into telephoto zoom lens(something like 100-400 F4L IS USM. My dream telephoto zoom!Provided i go for a canon system)

But mostly would be in the primes and under 200mm range if at all i go for telephoto !
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Old 26th August 2013, 11:06   #1255
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How would you go about getting this shot on a Fuji? I am referring to just the focus thing, not exposure. I have given up trying to get these kind of captures from my x100, using the DSLR for these applications. If you know, please share - I will see if I can copy the technique!
A slightly confusing and long post.

In Fuji there is no way you are going to get this shot letting the camera decide on Focussing while you only point the camera and shoot. The more you use Fuji the more you will appreciate the DSLR for these type of scenario.

Why Fuji will not help you?
1) The AF algorithm is Contrast detection system and not phase detection AF system. This means it will hunt till in finds the right mix to grab the focus
2) The AF speed is also dependent on the lenses. And the Fujinon lenses in AF speed is generations back. May be the 85mm f1.2 Version I has similar focussing speed compared to these lenses on fuji camera.
3) The buffer and ability to let the shooter continue to shoot. This means the camera is basically making you wait till it finishes writing into the card.
4) In most of the DSLR the AF is continuous in say AI Servo irrespective of shutter button position. In Fuji when you press the shutter to take a picture, it will first hunt to focus, take a picture and write into the card. Then even keeping the shutter button pressed is not going to activate AF. You have to release the shutter and let the camera focus again. The C position of the AF setting in your camera is good for a leech may be but anything slightly faster the contrast detect system will do its activity before focussing.

How do i make it work then?

This is what i follow and its quite successfull. Prepare, predict, prefocus, select drive mode, select shutter priority, set Auto ISO for safety.

Prepare:- Set you camera right. Set your aperture, shutter, iso at required set up
Predict:- Predict your action and plan of action where you want to freeze them.
Prefocus:- Set to manual focus and prefocus to the plan where you are hoping to see the action. like dog running towards you, you know you can prefocus to a plane.
Select Drive mode:- Select to 6fps

Now all you have to do is when ever the action enters the plane of focus just let the shutter button go wild and hope from 1/6 you will get atleast 1 image that u wanted.

At first this looks crazy, but it works. And this is working with knowing the limitations of the camera.


Most importantly, 18-55 is the fastest focussing Fuji lens, 35mm is probably 2-2.5 times slower than 18-55, 60mm is absolutely useless for such shots. The focussing will take YEARS compared to the 18-55 and decades compared to a DSLR.


You will treat into the realm of becoming a better photographer for the tool is basically very limited for such action.

http://www.fujix-forum.com/index.php...01/#entry19694

http://www.andrewsgibson.com/blog/20...ion-autofocus/

Quote:
something like 100-400 F4L IS USM.
Its a slow lens. For the price you are better of with a sigma 120-300 F2.8 which now comes with OS. With a 2X tele this set up still belts out images absolutely stunning.

Last edited by VW2010 : 26th August 2013 at 11:08.
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Old 26th August 2013, 11:10   #1256
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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
Its a slow lens. For the price you are better of with a sigma 120-300 F2.8 which now comes with OS. With a 2X tele this set up still belts out images absolutely stunning.

Thanks for the update. Its a old lens i know. Didnt know about better alternatives! Thanks .
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Old 28th August 2013, 09:59   #1257
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Is Rs.35,500/- Sony NEX 5R a good deal?
I had almost decided to purchase NEX 6, but then I came across this offer, which means a difference of around 15,000/-. So, I am confused. What do you guys say?

Last edited by mxx : 28th August 2013 at 10:09.
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Old 28th August 2013, 10:07   #1258
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

With what lens? NEX-5R with 16-50mm OSS lens goes for 38K in Bangalore.
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Old 28th August 2013, 10:31   #1259
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It is with 18-55mm lens. Not SELP 16-55mm
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Old 28th August 2013, 10:35   #1260
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That is a non-IS lens. Avoid that unless you are really strapped for cash. For another 3K you'll get IS and a wider lens. Both are very very useless and worth more than 3K.
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