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Old 8th February 2011, 11:28   #1
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Default Query On CCTV Camera And Installation

I need to install CCTV cameras at my place of work, as it is now required by law. Apart from the law bit, I feel it will be beneficial for me to have them installed for various reasons.

I have no idea about CCTV's, and to tell you the truth I have not even done any survey on them either. I have some initial queries that need to be answered before I head to the market to get the best buy.

I will be installing 2 cameras to start with and then see if I require more. I need to keep at least 45 days of recording.

Now for questions that I have in mind.

1. Can I use the same CPU + Monitor that I am offering to the guests for internet access? What are the pros and cons of that? Can I lock/ password protect the file in the CPU that will have the CCTV recording?

2. If I use the same CPU what will be the best computer configuration?

3. For 2 cameras into 45 days, what is the size of HDD that I am looking at?

4. B/W versus Coloured cameras apart from the cost? Do b/w camera footage take less space to store?

5. Any particular brand cameras that is better than the others?

6. Installation Doís and Donítís?

7. Any other input on the same will be highly appreciated.

Thanks and Regards!!
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Old 8th February 2011, 11:47   #2
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Default Re: Query On CCTV Camera And Installation

What is your budget?

You can use existing PC and get a solution with :

1. Cameras
2. Capture card with 3 - 4 lines
3. Recording and archival software

But keep in mind that it would be a "Jugaad" and expect it to work like one.

There are various solutions, but budget is the primary deciding factor.
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Old 8th February 2011, 11:52   #3
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Default Re: Query On CCTV Camera And Installation

All you need is a good quality webcam, and connect it to your PC.
Lots of softwares(free and paid) available for this purpose.
A SD stream is 500kps max. which will require around 300GB for 45 days of recording.
Using compression and if you do not need audio, you can go down to 200kbps.
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Old 8th February 2011, 11:56   #4
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Default Re: Query On CCTV Camera And Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by deky View Post
I need to install CCTV cameras at my place of work, as it is now required by law. Apart from the law bit, I feel it will be beneficial for me to have them installed for various reasons.

I have no idea about CCTV's, and to tell you the truth I have not even done any survey on them either. I have some initial queries that need to be answered before I head to the market to get the best buy.

I will be installing 2 cameras to start with and then see if I require more. I need to keep at least 45 days of recording.

Now for questions that I have in mind.

1. Can I use the same CPU + Monitor that I am offering to the guests for internet access? What are the pros and cons of that? Can I lock/ password protect the file in the CPU that will have the CCTV recording?

2. If I use the same CPU what will be the best computer configuration?

3. For 2 cameras into 45 days, what is the size of HDD that I am looking at?

4. B/W versus Coloured cameras apart from the cost? Do b/w camera footage take less space to store?

5. Any particular brand cameras that is better than the others?

6. Installation Doís and Donítís?

7. Any other input on the same will be highly appreciated.

Thanks and Regards!!
Hey,

since I am in this trade i will try and help / guide you as much as possible. Lets start from the basics.

The cameras work in configuration of 4/8/16/32.

Firstly you need cameras and a DIGITAL VIDEO RECORDER (DVR). DVR's have camera inputs and monitor output ports. The DVR also holds a SATA port of connecting a hard disk for recording feeds from the cameras. SO, even if you need 2 cameras, you will need to install a 4 channel DVR.

If you are going for a 1 time work, i would advise you get color cameras.

All we spoke above is the conventional setup. The new technology is IP cameras, they work either on wired lan or wireless lan. they are very easy to setup and don't require a DVR for data storage. you can either store the feed on the on board MICROSD card or install its recording software in one of the computers in your organisation and let it record all the data.

Between the 2, IP cameras are the most convenient as they don't require much cabling and are very easy to install and setup.

if you need further info pls PM me.
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Old 8th February 2011, 12:01   #5
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Default Re: Query On CCTV Camera And Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by h@r$h@l View Post
Between the 2, IP cameras are the most convenient as they don't require much cabling and are very easy to install and setup.
+1.

I have set this up for a chain of Health Clubs in Mumbai. The added benefit being you can view all cameras at any terminal connected to the net.
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Old 8th February 2011, 12:21   #6
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Default Re: Query On CCTV Camera And Installation

A funny side affect. Most of these IP cams have open feeds, so anybody on the internet can view your feed if the installer was not aware of security. Google for this and you can find scored of unprotected cams on the web installed all over the world.
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Old 8th February 2011, 12:26   #7
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Default Re: Query On CCTV Camera And Installation

Thank you all for your responses. I will try to answer you guys and then take this discussion further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
What is your budget?
.............
But keep in mind that it would be a "Jugaad" and expect it to work like one.

There are various solutions, but budget is the primary deciding factor.
I have no idea about the costing, hence I have not made any budget, But yes I would like to have the most VFM set up. And I do not want a "Jugaad" Dont wanna get stuck later having to call the technitian again and again if something goes wrong

I am totally computer illeterate :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
All you need is a good quality webcam, and connect it to your PC.
Lots of softwares(free and paid) available for this purpose.
A SD stream is 500kps max. which will require around 300GB for 45 days of recording.
Using compression and if you do not need audio, you can go down to 200kbps.
Thanks Tanveer, I do not need audio. I just need to capture faces, and movement of those
a. who are coming in and out of my reception
b. who are coming in and out of the main gate + parking lot

So I guess without the audio I can store 45 days of recording for both the cameras in about 300gb? Is that for b/w camera or coloured? And also will the quality of camera affect the recording space?

Quote:
Originally Posted by h@r$h@l View Post
Hey,

since I am in this trade i will try and help / guide you as much as possible. Lets start from the basics.

The cameras work in configuration of 4/8/16/32.

Firstly you need cameras and a DIGITAL VIDEO RECORDER (DVR). DVR's have camera inputs and monitor output ports. The DVR also holds a SATA port of connecting a hard disk for recording feeds from the cameras. SO, even if you need 2 cameras, you will need to install a 4 channel DVR.

If you are going for a 1 time work, i would advise you get color cameras.

All we spoke above is the conventional setup. The new technology is IP cameras, they work either on wired lan or wireless lan. they are very easy to setup and don't require a DVR for data storage. you can either store the feed on the on board MICROSD card or install its recording software in one of the computers in your organisation and let it record all the data.

Between the 2, IP cameras are the most convenient as they don't require much cabling and are very easy to install and setup.

if you need further info pls PM me.
I am totally new to this so some of my questions will appear very basic and stupid, please bear with me.

1. what is the cost difference in percentage between b/w camera and a coloured camera? Will colour give me more clarity than the b/w? For me clarity is the issue. If the clarity is not a problem I would like to save some bucks and go in for a B/W.
Would you still insist on a coloured?

2. Are IP cameras wireless? Will there be no wires required? If I understand you correctly, they will have a storage medium on the camera itself. is that true? Only wire required will be for the power? No DVR/ No PC nothing else required?

3. For the conventional set up, I need to have minimum 4 channel DVR but can have 2 cameras to start with and then add 2 more. Is that right? Also this will have wires required to connect the camera to the DVR and then to the CPU? Correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
+1.

I have set this up for a chain of Health Clubs in Mumbai. The added benefit being you can view all cameras at any terminal connected to the net.
Can I check the cameras from anyplace provided the cameras are connected to the net, is that what you mean to say? This is regardless of the fact if I am using conventional set up or IP set up?

Thanks again guys for helping me out

Last edited by deky : 8th February 2011 at 12:29.
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Old 8th February 2011, 13:36   #8
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Default Re: Query On CCTV Camera And Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
All you need is a good quality webcam, and connect it to your PC.
Lots of softwares(free and paid) available for this purpose.
A SD stream is 500kps max. which will require around 300GB for 45 days of recording.
Using compression and if you do not need audio, you can go down to 200kbps.
Thats what I referred to as "Jugaad". Reasons:

1. Webcam would be connected to PC via USB, and USB cables are very finicky beyond couple of meters. So this would not work for multiple cameras that need to run 24x7.

2. If normal consumer HDD is operated 24x7, chances of failure in 3 years is 20% http://labs.google.com/papers/disk%5Ffailures.pdf

As mentioned in this paper, there is very high correlation between failure and utilization rates.

3. Such failures (USB / HDD) would be "silent", I.e. you will notice it when you need it most.


Quote:
Originally Posted by h@r$h@l View Post
Between the 2, IP cameras are the most convenient as they don't require much cabling and are very easy to install and setup.
+1. I would recommend this setup for initial install. Something on line of:

1. 2 IP cameras (SD card storage in both, used in rotation)
2. WiFi router that is not used for anything else
3. Software that has proper time-stamping and archival (so that you can quickly look at both cameras at a certain date and time)
4. Second HDD connected to PC over USB
5. Setup windows to take backup on this HDD every 30 minutes
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Old 8th February 2011, 13:37   #9
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Default Re: Query On CCTV Camera And Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
if the installer was not aware of security.
That's the difference between a professional setup and a novice one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deky View Post
Can I check the cameras from anyplace provided the cameras are connected to the net, is that what you mean to say? This is regardless of the fact if I am using conventional set up or IP set up?
For a complete IP setup its true. For a conventional setup you will need additional hardware.

If you need more information we can have a chat. PM me your yahoo or gmail ID. If you want it to be typed in all here. I am up for that too. Only long mails would be an issue.

PS: I don't deal in these setups. Just that I have an interest and have helped friends and others setup IP based CCTV solutions. I have a regular job.

Last edited by Spitfire : 8th February 2011 at 13:38.
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Old 8th February 2011, 13:40   #10
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Default Re: Query On CCTV Camera And Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by deky View Post


Can I check the cameras from anyplace provided the cameras are connected to the net, is that what you mean to say? This is regardless of the fact if I am using conventional set up or IP set up?

Thanks again guys for helping me out
Yes. You can check your premises from any where as long as its connected to the internet. Be it a mobile fone viewing or a PC. Both systems, DVR or IP cameras can be viewed from any where.

Check your PM please.
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Old 8th February 2011, 13:49   #11
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Default Re: Query On CCTV Camera And Installation

IP cameras with Video management software on a server grade machine is the best option out there.

Besides the video management software may also carry enhancements like face recognition, automatic zooming and focusing on the subject.

There are two major types of IP cams - dome and PTZ.
Dome is good for closed spaces like offices - they are discrete and non-imposing.
PTZ are the large "pan tilt zoom" cams that are put in industrial setup like warehouse, plants, refineries etc.

This video server will also restrict the clients that can actually access the video stream or the archives.
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Old 8th February 2011, 13:50   #12
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Default Re: Query On CCTV Camera And Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
Thats what I referred to as "Jugaad". Reasons:

1. Webcam would be connected to PC via USB, and USB cables are very finicky beyond couple of meters. So this would not work for multiple cameras that need to run 24x7.

2. If normal consumer HDD is operated 24x7, chances of failure in 3 years is 20% http://labs.google.com/papers/disk%5Ffailures.pdf

As mentioned in this paper, there is very high correlation between failure and utilization rates.

3. Such failures (USB / HDD) would be "silent", I.e. you will notice it when you need it most.




+1. I would recommend this setup for initial install. Something on line of:

1. 2 IP cameras (SD card storage in both, used in rotation)
2. WiFi router that is not used for anything else
3. Software that has proper time-stamping and archival (so that you can quickly look at both cameras at a certain date and time)
4. Second HDD connected to PC over USB
5. Setup windows to take backup on this HDD every 30 minutes
Okay, as far as storage media failure is concerned, even SD card failure is common. Unless you are monitoring the feeds and doing a backup of the recorded data, you won't be wiser.
Regarding USB, even a IP cam over ethernet can be done using a DIY setup for a fraction of the cost, provided the person is willing to search the internet. Robust open source software solutions for IP cameras exist and are in use all over the world.
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Old 8th February 2011, 14:02   #13
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Default Re: Query On CCTV Camera And Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Okay, as far as storage media failure is concerned, even SD card failure is common. Unless you are monitoring the feeds and doing a backup of the recorded data, you won't be wiser.
Regarding USB, even a IP cam over ethernet can be done using a DIY setup for a fraction of the cost, provided the person is willing to search the internet.
Thats the point, you can spend few weeks to create this as DIY. Just keep in mind that its would be a DIY and will take significant efforts.

Or you can use a software that takes care of

1. backups (and quick recovery based on timestamps)
2. altering if a cam is not sending feed

SD card on camera is to store feed if WiFi is down for some time.
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Old 8th February 2011, 14:03   #14
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Default Re: Query On CCTV Camera And Installation

I have a similar system installed for our office - a DVR with a 500 GB hard drive which is capable of H264 compression and a couple of color High Resolution cameras. The whole set up cost me about 25k about one and half years ago.

Most important thing is be prepared to install extra lighting for the camera (add to the cost of maintenance) or else you will end up with useless grainy images. Second thing is the cameras and the associated feed cables need to be securely installed or expect them to be stolen or vandalized. High vantage points and secure housing is mandatory. These special CCTV cameras come with wide angle view unlike the ubiquitous Webcams.

My DVR has a NIC which can be configured to use a router with its own dedicated IP - essential for back up to a remote server and for access to a password protected webpage through which you can control/view the recordings.

The main camera also has a Pan and tilt motor assembly controlled by a wireless remote.
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Old 8th February 2011, 14:49   #15
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Default Re: Query On CCTV Camera And Installation

Are there motion sensor cameras too? Even I am looking for such a system.
  • Preferably motion sensor camera
  • Capacity to record feeds for one month at least
If the feed can be monitored remotely, that would be great.
What would be the approximate cost of such a camera? Which brands are available?
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