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Old 3rd May 2011, 19:38   #136
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Default re: Apple sues Samsung and now HTC

Out of all this discussion, Are we missing the fact that there is a "User Agreement" that you "accept" before signing on to Market in any android phone ?

So, apparently Google doesnt have to be worried about a nuclear war in your phone, caused by installing a 3rd party app ? It is absolutely user's decision to choose & install an app from the market & i dont think google is in any way responsible, if the phone ends up being breached ! There is a reason why there are numberous Security Apps floating around in the Market ! lol

Coming to the iphone, i doubt if jobs has patented how to hold iphone 4 as well & a new patent.. How to use, How to call and so on! Apple can patent anything and everything, it makes patenting seem like a joke to me
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Old 3rd May 2011, 19:48   #137
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Coming to the iphone, i doubt if jobs has patented how to hold iphone 4 as well & a new patent.. How to use, How to call and so on! Apple can patent anything and everything, it makes patenting seem like a joke to me
Apple or not - patenting seems a joke because it is a joke, or has been turned into one by "defensive patents" system in last few decades.

Years ago I was working on some advanced technology and got a simple application idea. My boss suggested patenting it in the context of that technological application, so we started looking whether somebody else had done it.

Turned out that *** (I'm not going to name - though you can make out) had already patented not only this application but a dozen others on the technology in question 12 years before us even though even when we were working the technology was totally unmanufacturable - in the lab per chip over 20% of circuits were guaranteed to fail (and there were thousands per chip) making it impossible to get even a single fully working chip.

patents were supposed to provide an incentive to innovate, in this case they provided a disincentive - we abandoned the particular approach (there was no hope of licensing the patents, and if we developed the other parts of the technology and did make it manufacturable *** would just copy our parts of the innovation - we didn't have the resources to fight it out in court).

this was almost a decade ago. situation has become far worse since then.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 19:48   #138
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Default re: Apple sues Samsung and now HTC

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no of course not - and if a user of B comes on the TV and says users of A are jackas* idiots who pay more for less functionality he would be factually correct too.
In this case yes. But that is where the analogy will fail again because in iphone case, user has just chosen to outsource the security of his phone to the manufacturer. And he is fine with it because he feels its a fair price to pay for peace of mind. Otherwise the market would have shown apple the door.
You underestimate the forces of market at your own peril.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 20:02   #139
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In this case yes. But that is where the analogy will fail again because in iphone case, user has just chosen to outsource the security of his phone to the manufacturer. And he is fine with it because he feels its a fair price to pay for peace of mind. Otherwise the market would have shown apple the door.
You underestimate the forces of market at your own peril.
It is also a blind trust & can only help the user when he wants to "Sue" the outsourced company, in case of a security breach ! In the bargain, the user loses out on cost advantage & the opportunity to use a huge number of apps innovative & interesting at the same time ! so, this kind of a user, could be a loser.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 20:07   #140
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Default re: Apple sues Samsung and now HTC

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It is also a blind trust & can only help the user when he wants to "Sue" the outsourced company, in case of a security breach ! In the bargain, the user loses out on cost advantage & the opportunity to use a huge number of apps innovative & interesting at the same time ! so, this kind of a user, could be a loser.
Your valuation of security is probably out of whack with the market's valuation. So, the cost advantage argument is highly suspect.
Probably these so called "losers" actually have a life and don't want to spend it looking after their phones
They'd rather pay a few bucks extra and get on with their lives!

Last edited by amitoj : 3rd May 2011 at 20:11.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 20:08   #141
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In this case yes. But that is where the analogy will fail again because in iphone case, user has just chosen to outsource the security of his phone to the manufacturer. And he is fine with it because he feels its a fair price to pay for peace of mind. Otherwise the market would have shown apple the door.
You underestimate the forces of market at your own peril.

No, your're wrong. User of A would have outsourced the security if knows that that's what he has done. If the guy thinks that the product is inherently more secure he is indeed not very smart. Even if he did outsource the security he is getting a raw deal - mfr. A's car can do no more than 90 anywhere (even where it is legal) mfr B's car can do 150 will never crash till 90 (that is why A's system of speed-limiting works) and thanks to anti-crash system installed, it is virtually guranteed to not crash till (may be) 120, and even beyond this speed the probability of crash is pretty low. so user can decide where to use what speed and still be safe enough.

by the way, why do you say I underestimate the market forces?

I wouldn't buy Apple because of what the reasons I wrote. My sister hears those reasons, and still gifts me Apple products (rightly figuring out that I wouldn't buy) because of her own reasons - she likes the colour, the pictures etc. and will never use advanced features. For the features she does use, even iProducts are an overkill - why does she buy them then? Peer pressure and ignorance.

By the way, a lot of Apple's fans claim "Otherwise the market would have shown apple the door." without realising that in Apple's history that has happened before (and it was due to Mr. Job's ideas). Apple has been Apple for far less than a decade. And given the third rate tech specs on their products (I'm not talking user experience - that I agree is great for most people, better than Apple's competitors usually provide) one misstep can make "market forces" take over in very short order.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 20:15   #142
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Default re: Apple sues Samsung and now HTC

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No, your're wrong. User of A would have outsourced the security if knows that that's what he has done. If the guy thinks that the product is inherently more secure he is indeed not very smart. Even if he did outsource the security he is getting a raw deal - mfr. A's car can do no more than 90 anywhere (even where it is legal) mfr B's car can do 150 will never crash till 90 (that is why A's system of speed-limiting works) and thanks to anti-crash system installed, it is virtually guranteed to not crash till (may be) 120, and even beyond this speed the probability of crash is pretty low. so user can decide where to use what speed and still be safe enough.

I thought analogies are supposed to simplify things. You know you are using wrong analogy when you need to create more and more hypothetical scenarios to force it upon the actual case.

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By the way, a lot of Apple's fans claim "Otherwise the market would have shown apple the door." without realising that in Apple's history that has happened before (and it was due to Mr. Job's ideas). Apple has been Apple for far less than a decade. And given the third rate tech specs on their products (I'm not talking user experience - that I agree is great for most people, better than Apple's competitors usually provide) one misstep can make "market forces" take over in very short order.
We'll discuss the misstep when it happens, if it happens. For now, lets keep it real.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 20:22   #143
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I thought analogies are supposed to simplify things. You know you are using wrong analogy when you need to create more and more hypothetical scenarios to force it upon the actual case.

Well my analogy was simple enough in the first instance. You couldn't understand it, so I had to add some detail (strictly for your benefit). That doesn't make my analogy wrong and if you don't understand it, I can understand. After all you are an Apple lover.

We'll discuss the misstep when it happens, if it happens. For now, lets keep it real.
Why don't we discuss markets at that time too?
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Old 3rd May 2011, 20:27   #144
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Why don't we discuss markets at that time too?
Thanks for insulting my intelligence!
A common recourse for apple haters

Of course, because i am trying to make sense of the analogies being thrown around and pointing out holes in them, you label me an "apple lover". How convenient!

Last edited by amitoj : 3rd May 2011 at 20:31.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 20:58   #145
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Thanks for insulting my intelligence!
A common recourse for apple haters
I'm not an Apple hater - may be a little, but not enough to waste my time on it. And as I wrote their products do have a lot of good things - not for me (various reasons - I am not a cool guy), but my wife and sister love them.

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Of course, because i am trying to make sense of the analogies being thrown around and pointing out holes in them, you label me an "apple lover". How convenient!

Let's put it this way, all analogies, once you go threadbare, are different from the real thing (that's why they are called analogies). Now either you didn't know that or I can (in mild banter at least) label you Apple lover.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 21:03   #146
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Let's put it this way, all analogies, once you go threadbare, are different from the real thing (that's why they are called analogies). Now either you didn't know that or I can (in mild banter at least) label you Apple lover.
I normally back out when a discussion degenerates into personal comments. Which means i should have backed out like, three posts back!

Anyway, better late than never!
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Old 3rd May 2011, 21:25   #147
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I normally back out when a discussion degenerates into personal comments. Which means i should have backed out like, three posts back!

Anyway, better late than never!
Good policy sir, and my apologies.

By the way "You underestimate the forces of market at your own peril." what was that about in http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadget...l#post2336894?
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Old 3rd May 2011, 21:28   #148
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Good policy sir, and my apologies.

By the way "You underestimate the forces of market at your own peril." what was that about in http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadget...l#post2336894?
Sigh! You = One.


Apology accepted. Peace.

Last edited by amitoj : 3rd May 2011 at 21:29.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 21:31   #149
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Sigh! You = One.


Apology accepted. Peace.

No no , I'm not making fun or anything (really sorry if it seems otherwise). In that post I really didn't understand where did the market come into picture.

I mean what is your interpretation of things - being in business, and losing plenty of money last year, why would I underestimate the market?

Last edited by vina : 3rd May 2011 at 21:33.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 21:45   #150
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No no , I'm not making fun or anything (really sorry if it seems otherwise). In that post I really didn't understand where did the market come into picture.

I mean what is your interpretation of things - being in business, and losing plenty of money last year, why would I underestimate the market?
Let's meet up when we are in the same town, some time and i will explain it to you in detail. Or send me a PM and we'll take it offline.
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