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View Poll Results: The frugal practical hatchback to buy
Swift D - National diesel car 75 27.37%
Ritz D - The weird alternative to national diesel car 51 18.61%
Figo - The sensible car on paper 66 24.09%
i20 - Expensive but worth it! Reasons given in post 23 8.39%
Punto - Its not a TATA its a FIAT! 38 13.87%
Something else - Explained in a post 21 7.66%
Voters: 274. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 14th September 2011, 11:30   #76
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Personally, I've never owned a Maruti Suzuki car but I know so many that swear by the hassle free ownership experience, ownership cost and great resale value. That would be its USP. And yes, the boot is non-existent while space is at a premium in the back. The swift is not a car I'd go for simply because of the space constraints, but while it offers nothing really unique vis-a-vis most other diesel hatchbacks, there's no denying the that servicing it and owning will be largely problem-free. Again, no experience of Nissan/Toyota, so I'm in no position to talk about that either, but for what it's worth my vote (literally) did go to the Figo.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 08:07   #77
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Hey tsk any updates on those TD yet? Planning to buy a small hatch too and the choice is between Ritz, Liva and Jazz. Its a confused sounding list I know. Do you mind sharing the OTR prices of the Ritz in Delhi incase you have the price list?
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Old 23rd September 2011, 08:34   #78
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Hey tsk,

I want to ask the same question as doc above. Did you make a choice yet & even if you did not, can you briefly list down your experiences w.r.t test drives of these different cars?

Drive safe.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 12:05   #79
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

I was in same dilemma, Opted for Ritz VDI 6 months back after test driving the old Swift & Ritz back-to-back. Swift was pretty cramped for long drives. A.S.S. of Maruti is unmatched.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 13:14   #80
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Ritzzzy for sure.

Figo issues
1) Ground Clearence
2) Not a Current Global hatch back design(how many of us know that the Figo is 1998-2003 Golbal fiesta hatch design marketed in india as Figo 2009-10 onwards, why does Ford not consider india with respect and launch a product which is also available in the global markets at the same time??)
3)Rear windows do not roll down full, rear passengers are unhappy.
4) no rear power windows
5) 1998 diesel engine, 8 values and SOHC. agreed its okay to use this in the city, turbo lag is less, but its only BS3 compliant, somehow they put some parts and made this BS4 compliant.. what happens when BS5 kicks in? FIAT 1.3MJD is already BS5 complaint.
6)Nosiy engine when compared to the refined 1.3MJD

Ritz with 185/70 R14 tyres is the best option, Vista is the 2nd best when you consider all the factors.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 14:19   #81
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iliketurtles View Post
Personally, I've never owned a Maruti Suzuki car but I know so many that swear by the hassle free ownership experience, ownership cost and great resale value.
Owning a Maruti means lots of miles with little trouble. I have had the Maruti Suzuki Esteem 2004 Di and after 7 years it still runs perfectly well. I had a similar experience with an old Zen 2002 Di that lasted 8 long years before it was sold. Not all service centers are created equal, but you are very likely to find a good Maruti service center located in your city/town.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 15:35   #82
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

My heart split into two!
Exactly the same dilemma or rather double dilemma...
My running with the new car will be 1000 Km a month
Since I do drive outs often so opted for diesel and moreover I would like a little more payments on EMI than daily pinch on pocket and than a second thought before going for a drive.

Initially was inclined towards the new swift coz of the performance reviews BUT
A look at polo and it took my heart...Damn it screams the standard of quality from everywhere. Yes the the clattering 3-pot is a disappointment at least for such a calm and stylish designed car.
I tell you after reading more and more over the forum in quest of a decision is only taking me farther from it.
On the spec. record both are equal in terms of power output and torque delivery, haven't TD Polo yet!
Swift ZDi is 7.16L OTR in Delhi and waiting is 24-26 weeks (6 months)
Polo Comfortline is 7.38L OTR, dunno about delivery period

Last edited by Honda Monk : 23rd September 2011 at 15:51. Reason: Correction and addition
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Old 23rd September 2011, 16:01   #83
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Ritz it is. Agreed that the New Swift is new (duh!) and good looking and everything else. But Ritz does make tremendous sense in day-to-day driving. It is also a decent performer on the highways.

For someone with an A.S.S. phobia, Maruti is the first and the last name in car market today. Not that other manufacturers are not upto the mark, its just that Maruti somehow gives you that feeling of surety, that Assurance packages offerred by other companies can just not match.

Much has been said about the ugly back of the Ritz, but to me, its abstract art. Many would go ga-ga (not the Lady) about how wonderful the Honda Brio looks but IMHO Ritz looks way better than that. Not to forget the awesome combo of Maruti engineering with the gearbox and Fiat's talent in the 1.3 Multijet engine. Run to your nearest Maruti dealership, now!!!

P.S. In case if I have not myself clear about which one got my vote, it would be Ritz.

Last edited by SankalpDesai : 23rd September 2011 at 16:02.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 16:28   #84
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Wow, it's been 3 months since you started this thread and you still haven't made a decision.

Well, that's probably for the best since you now have the Toyota Liva D-4D Diesel as an option.

Doesn't seem to be a particularly outstanding car in terms of feel or performance, but it does fill your basic criteria of "Fill it, Shut it, Forget it".

No niggles, no breakdowns, no naatak.

Excellent fuel economy (extremely light kerb weight should ensure that). Just a very tiny, light, bulletproof tank is what that car is.

It's a Toyota, whether you keep it for 10+ years or drive 300,000 km's, it still wont let you down . (ask any past Qualis owner)
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Old 23rd September 2011, 16:59   #85
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

We actually Test drove the Liva Diesel. More on that later.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 17:42   #86
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Its a good thing that you waited, the Liva would be a good choice for you too. The only downside of the car is the quality of interiors, unhappy at high revs & high NVH. Although the after sales service would be better than the other options on offer here.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 20:08   #87
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
We actually Test drove the Liva Diesel. More on that later.
That's good (although I have a sixth sense feeling that it didn't leave you impressed?).

Still, eagerly waiting to hear your opinion of the Toyota.
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Old 24th September 2011, 23:14   #88
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Default Toyota Liva : The less car per car

So, Toyota launched the Liva in diesel.
For 5.55 lakhs ex showroom(approx) in a variant with ABS-EBD and Power windows.
Now this can only mean one thing.
All the confusion is gone. All we need to do is walk into the nearest Toyota showroom, and give the booking amount.
Its perfect, its simple.
No more pondering over features, wondering whether Nissan will ever open a service center in Noida, or whether to save all the money and go for that Ritz and worry about rattles later.

But before we do that, we have to take a TD. Even if its a Toyota.
So one sunny warm afternoon, we are roaming in the bowels of Noida.

These are parts of the city where only the brave dare to go. Vampires roam the streets, and werewolves hunt here in the night. But Toyota is brave. Toyota is not scared of anything. So Toyota has set up their dealership here.
If you do get mugged, fortis is just a few hundred meters away, as a pisaach flies.

Anyways, its afternoon and vampires and werewolves are sleeping, and as we enter the clinically clean showroom, everything seems normal.
These are the days of the dead, so not many people are buying cars.
And probably a lot many are not even TDing cars.
So we get all the attention.
Formalities are completed, and as they wait for the brand new Liva(The TD car has come today from Toyota, and has gone for a fuel fill), we decide to check out a petrol model parked on the showroom floor.
ITs the same color as Rin.
That said, even with this shocking electric blue color, the car screams boring.
In fact, I am sure, you can paint of bright pink and fix glowing neon signs all over, and it will still not turn any heads.
It is so boring.
IT is so predictably Toyota.

And then we open the doors and enter.
ITs a palace. An empty palace with bargain basement furniture, but nevertheless a palace.
There is acres of legroom everywhere. Infact, its so much, that a maruti will commit suicide in shame, and even a Tata will have a mild depression.

Somehow, Toyota has managed to make a very very big car. And then do not forget the cupholders.
The car is full of bottle holders and cup holders. They are everywhere.

I slide into the drivers seat, and then the truth strikes me.
Its not a car.
Its a Bajaj scooter from the 70s
There is one speedometer.
Thats it.
There is no temp guage
No fuel guage
No tachometer.

Just one big silly speedometer with a weird font, placed in the center.

But we choose to ignore all that.
Its big this Liva.
Real big.

Now when a safari owner things something is spacious, its really spacious.
You do not have to squeeze or wriggle or compromise

You can stretch on the seats made form fabric bought from the scrap yard.
You can expand your elbows, and rest it on the cheap doors.

For all its cheapness, the IRVM has day night mode. +1 for Toyota.
Its cheap, but what you need is there.

Except for the fuel guage and the tachometer.
And you have 324 bottle holders in the car.
I made that up.

Its actually 7 bottle holders(or was it 5?). They actually advertise it.
Buy our liva, and you can throw way your fridge!

Yay!
Meanwhile....
Our TD car has come and its time to take a TD.

I walk into the drivers seat, with the gentleman from Toyota at the back seat, and my wife by my side on the passenger seat.

MY first reaction is looking for the kick start mechanism.
After all, its a scooter, and to cut costs, maybe they did not give a self start?
I cannot find one, so I just crank the engine, and voila, she starts, nay roars!
Toyota has given a self start mechanism! In a scooter from the 70s!

The engine settles down to a lumpy note, which is loud. It makes me feel at home, and all nostalgic.
She sounds just like the tractor we have at the farm.
Now, don't get me wrong, I am sure the engine is not really noisy, but in a scooter, you do not have much insulation, so you hear everything.

So right now, it sounds just like a tractor.

And then I notice the tiny E and F on a digital guage. Aah. She has a digital fuel guage. I look around for a magnifying glass to see how much fuel she has. There isn't any magnifying glass. So I go close to the center console and see its full. The ODO says 39kms. She is very very new! I press a small stick sticking out near the microscopic display. There is just one trip meter. This scooter is advanced.

I slot the reverse using the ring up mechanism, and we head out on the TD route.

The first thing I notice is that for such a big car, the turning radius is fairly good.
And secondly, she soaks up the bumps pretty well. Much better than expected.

Power delivery is linear. There is no insane kick or bogged down behaviour at low rpms. Very unlike the national diesel engine.
This engine is more like the k9k from Renault.
fortunately, it does have more power.

Soon we reach an empty open road, and here I test whether it suffers from the Figo problem.

The Figo problem is that after 100kmph you feel frustrated.
Below 100kmph you have to be in the correct gear not to feel frustrated.

Thankfully, the Liva does not suffer from this problem.
She will comfortably do 120-130, which is more than adequate for our needs.

Then with a cursory look in the RVM, I sit on the brake pedal.
No drama, no circus, she just stops. ABS and EBD work well. Infact, they work much better than all ABS/EBD equipped cars we have driven.

Sure there are some problems too.
Visibility is not so good with thick A pillars, windscreen is a tad too small, and the gearshift feels a trifle hard. But its a brand new car with 39kms on the odo, so benefit of doubt. That said, its much softer and easier to slot than the Tata Vista or the punto.

My wife takes the wheel, and she also echoes my views. The braking is actually very very good. If micra had brakes like this, probably we would have bought it by now.

Every mfr tries to leave something out of their car so that its flawed.
Toyota has made a very good scooter, Nissan has made an excellent car with no brakes, Maruti makes good tiny things with really weird shapes, and ford makes truly value for money things with no power.

Imagine the simplicity if figo had 7 horses more, or if Ritz was 10mm longer, of Micra had ABS/EBD in the same price, or if the Liva was not a scooter.

Anyways, enough ranting.
We come back to the showroom.
And I have to see the engine bay.

Opening the Engine bay tells me why Toyota is Toyota.
They have cut all kinds of costs, but they have not compromised.
For example, just like the Tatas she has sump guard.

The air intake is near the bonnet lid, which means even with water submerging the wheels, she will go on unless you stall the engine.

A tata engine bay often looks like an evil scientists playground with millions of wires here and there.
However, this engine bay is neat.

+1 for the Liva.

Now this gives rise to confusion.
A tachometer and slightly better interiors would have made this a no brainer.
But confusion just rises.

We want to pay the booking amount, and be done with it. 2 months later it will come.
She will last for 10 years.

But something is stopping.
You see, think of it that way.
Lets say you love Coke. Every time you drink it its an orgasmic feeling.
You give 500rs note to a shopkeeper and buy the coke.
He returns you change for 100.
you do not realize it.
As you are enjoying your orgasmic coke, you realize.
The coke will still feel good, but you will feel robbed.

This is the kind of feeling the Liva evokes.
She is a wonderful holiday where a picpocket swiped your purse. You do enjoy the holiday, but you got robbed.

If we do plonk the 5.55 or 5.6 or whatever on this thing, she will last 10 years, but for 10 years, we will get the feeling, that we bought a 5.5 lakh scooter.
We want to buy a car, not a scooter.

Its the perfect makes sense to the head car.
Its boring practical, fill it shut it forget it kind of vehicle.

And at the end of it all, we are more confused than ever.
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Old 25th September 2011, 15:32   #89
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Ritz and rattles?? Ok its one of the best build maruti's around.Please check all ownership threads and you'll get your answer.

Yes there is one complaint from all owners, that when u jump speed breakers at a speed more than 10km/hr, you'll hear a khat noise, due to stiff coil springs on the ritz, they have a limited travel.

It is becuase of these coil springs the ride quality is good in the car, and these stiff springs support the tall boy during handling requirements.
I'm using 185/70 R14 tyres on the Ritz, and the car doesnt let you down you can be rest assured.

Ritz VDI-ABS is a very good option for you like i said before, the 2nd best option is the Vista Sedan class quadrajet.

Cheers
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Old 25th September 2011, 17:55   #90
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4.Cars View Post
Ritz and rattles?? Ok its one of the best build maruti's around.Please check all ownership threads and you'll get your answer.

Yes there is one complaint from all owners, that when u jump speed breakers at a speed more than 10km/hr, you'll hear a khat noise, due to stiff coil springs on the ritz, they have a limited travel.

It is becuase of these coil springs the ride quality is good in the car, and these stiff springs support the tall boy during handling requirements.
I'm using 185/70 R14 tyres on the Ritz, and the car doesnt let you down you can be rest assured.

Ritz VDI-ABS is a very good option for you like i said before, the 2nd best option is the Vista Sedan class quadrajet.

Cheers
I am not saying that the ritz will rattle, I'm speculating that the worst which can happen with a ritz in 5 years(1.2L kms) is rattles, which I am okay with.
At 5.28L ex showroom (vDI without abs) it makes great sense, esp since its available off the shelf, with discounts.
So as far as VFM goes, this beats the competition left right and center.

As for Tata cars, I have been an early adopter, and have suffered for that. So I guess I will let others experiment with their sedan class or whatever, and after 3-4 years the if Tata lives up to the hype, maybe the next car will be a Tata!
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