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View Poll Results: The frugal practical hatchback to buy
Swift D - National diesel car 75 27.37%
Ritz D - The weird alternative to national diesel car 51 18.61%
Figo - The sensible car on paper 66 24.09%
i20 - Expensive but worth it! Reasons given in post 23 8.39%
Punto - Its not a TATA its a FIAT! 38 13.87%
Something else - Explained in a post 21 7.66%
Voters: 274. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 25th September 2011, 18:28   #91
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Default Re: Toyota Liva : The less car per car

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
So, Toyota launched the Liva in diesel.
.....
That is an insanely funny review of Liva and very informative too! Really enjoyed reading it! jeremy-clarkson-ish but actually useful for prospective buyers
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Old 25th September 2011, 19:19   #92
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Default Re: Toyota Liva : The less car per car

I generally avaoid long posts. But this one was just Ir-resistable. Kudos!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post

Soon we reach an empty open road, and here I test whether it suffers from the Figo problem.

The Figo problem is that after 100kmph you feel frustrated.
Below 100kmph you have to be in the correct gear not to feel frustrated.

Imagine the simplicity if figo had 7 horses more, or if Ritz was 10mm longer, of Micra had ABS/EBD in the same price, or if the Liva was not a scooter.

And at the end of it all, we are more confused than ever.
The solution is easy pal.
You cant add 10mm to the ritz.
Micra with ABS/EBD will not be available at the same price. And even if it were, I would not come anywhere near its 5 mile radius. I would rather see 100 Ritz with their Rear facing me but not a girly toy (from the inside) and a vintage (from the outside).
And you cant convert a scooter into a car unless you are a Magacian.
But in a Figo you can add the extra 7BHPs. Or may be even more. Its a powerbox I am talking about.

Last edited by oxyzen : 25th September 2011 at 19:21.
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Old 25th September 2011, 19:26   #93
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I am not saying that the ritz will rattle, I'm speculating that the worst which can happen with a ritz in 5 years(1.2L kms) is rattles, which I am okay with.
At 5.28L ex showroom (vDI without abs) it makes great sense, esp since its available off the shelf, with discounts.
So as far as VFM goes, this beats the competition left right and center.
Ritz Diesel is getting discounts? I thought there were no discounts on any of the diesel cars barring fiat and optra. Can you share the deal you got for the Ritz? BTW an excellent summary of your Liva TD. I just could not digest the centrally placed odometer.

So which one are you getting inclined towards finally? I think it should be the Ritz. Everybody gets bored of driving the same car so I would not give too much weightage to the 3L kms trouble free running of the Toyota. Vehicles which you buy from your heart like your safari are different. Otherwise I am sure you will want to change your car 6-7 years down the line given the rate at which our car market is adding new cars these days.
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Old 25th September 2011, 21:00   #94
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Default Re: Toyota Liva : The less car per car

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
We want to buy a car, not a scooter.
Thank you for your review... made my day
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Old 25th September 2011, 21:51   #95
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Ritz Diesel with discounts?? and also no waiting period?.

Wow, this is news to me, atleast here in bangalore, waiting period is 60days minimum and discounts? noways, some crazy dealers are ready to give up on the booking if the customer wishes to do his own insurance, they do not wish to loose even one rupee of profit.
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Old 25th September 2011, 21:57   #96
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Seems like the Beat Diesel isn't taken into consideration here. Any reason for that?!
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Old 26th September 2011, 07:29   #97
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Maruti is giving some 20K MGA package with ritz up north. Its available off the shelf!
As for beat diesel, I value my knees, and I don't think she will be comfortable at 100kmph with rpm crossing 3000!
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Old 26th September 2011, 09:45   #98
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

@ tsk1979 - Please read your opening post. Liva D perfectly meets the requirements that you have stated in the OP.

I agree that the center speedo console in Liva might be a turn-off for most people, but other than that, the car is not a complete disaster (the way you have compared it to a scooter).

Like you mentioned, there is no perfect car in this segment. You have to pick one based on which car ticks the most boxes for you (and which boxes matter to you the most).

If you think from your head, the decision is really simple. If you involve your heart in the decision making process, you will end up nowhere. You already have a "heart car" (Safari) in your garage, why not buy a "head car" to complement it ?

When I have to make a decision, I generally list my requirements and priorities. For example, lets say my requirements and their weightage are:

1. Engine power - Weightage (100%)
2. Reliability (niggle free performance) - Weightage (100%)
3. A.S.S. network (availability and competency) - Weightage (100%)
4. Mileage - Weightage (90%)
5. Resale value - Weightage (90%)
6. Cost of servicing and spare parts - Weightage (90%)
7. Cabin Space - Weightage (80%)
8. Boot Space - Weightage (80%)
9. Exterior looks - Weightage (70%)
10. Quality of interiors - Weightage (70%)

In the above list, I have assigned more weightage to the factors that matter the most for me and less weightage to factors that are less important to me.

You can make a similar list of your requirements and assign weightage to each requirement. Then for all the cars that you have test driven, assign points out of 10 for each requirement, and then multiply by its weightage factor. Then calculate the sum of these weighted points. Finally deduct some points from this score for any known issues in the vehicle (for eg, steering rattling issue in i20, knee busting in Beat, lack of power in Figo etc). The car that scores the highest would be your choice - simple.

If you make your decision in this logical manner, you will never have the feeling of getting robbed, because you would be sure that the car you have chosen ticked the most boxes for you.

Rohan
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Old 26th September 2011, 09:49   #99
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Rohan, actually Ritz and Liva both make perfect sense.
the Ritz is a good 30K cheaper(ABS model)
Has a tachometer, and no center console silliness. I can read the fuel guage without squinting.
Anyways, its all cosmetic.

You know the biggest problem with the Liva?
Its loud. Lack of sound deadening makes it sound like a tractor.

But it does have a great engine power wise, and acres of space, which the swift(new swift too) and ritz lack.

Anyways, I did do a short TD of the new swift too, more on that later.
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Old 26th September 2011, 10:36   #100
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

My car decision sheet.
Will add more stuff to it.
Right now, Ritz VDI is the most VFM option.
Liva is a close second. It also has a 10K service interval(but need to confirm from an actual buyer)

Truly amazing space and amazing brakes, but she's noisy as hell, and the central console is truly horrendous
Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!-car.jpg

Last edited by tsk1979 : 26th September 2011 at 10:37.
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Old 26th September 2011, 12:03   #101
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

tsk, your comparision of Liva with the scooter was hilarious but informative. I could clearly get the idea,i felt like i was there looking the whole thing with my own eyes.

Share your reviews about your test drive of the new Swift please. I TDed one today and have booked a VDi but still i would like to hear your opinion.
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Old 26th September 2011, 14:08   #102
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
My car decision sheet.
Liva is a close second. It also has a 10K service interval(but need to confirm from an actual buyer)

Truly amazing space and amazing brakes, but she's noisy as hell, and the central console is truly horrendous
Attachment 615082
Yes, you are correct, first free service- 1000kms, second- 10000, third- 20000.
Got my Blu (Petrol Liva) serviced yesterday after one month of purchase (700 kms)

Petrol Liva has got decent NVH levels, i am not sure about diesel though.
Also, i like the center console, please don't kill me

And Scooter???????
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Old 26th September 2011, 14:17   #103
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Default Swift Diesel - You are the Fool..err Fuel

Now here is an icon.
It has a waiting list so long, that by the time you get one, you will be too old to drive, your grandchildren will have grandchildren, or maybe the world would have exploded due to global warming.
So what does Maruti do with the most wanted car.
It discontinues it, only to give us a bigger and better version.

First lets see what is the new Swift.
Its bigger
Its lighter
Its more fuel efficient
And suddenly, if you want ABS, you need to pay a lot more. Vdi ABS is discontinued.

It also gets a display will keeps reminding you how fuel efficient it is.

And so, we end up in Rohan motors showroom, trying to get a Swift Diesel TD.
Now, she is a star, and like any start, there are tantrums. So the salesman tells us, there is no TD car available.

"I saw one outside" I retort.
"Its a petrol" comes the reply.
"It said Zdi at rear"
"errr... lemme check"

So inspite of their best efforts, I manage to get a TD car.

Formalities completed, I am told that I have to go on their TD route.
Its a few 100 meters long.

Thats the time the star will give us.

So lets make the most of it.

Well as first impressions go, its definitely roomier now. You do not feel cramped in the drivers seat, though rear seat is the same. That said, its not better than the Ritz, its unwanted cousin.

Everything else, except the shape, is same. Its old wine in old bottle with new flavor and a new price tag. Its lighter too, but I wonder how much difference a few kgs makes.

That said, its a good car, it always was, but 5.60 for a variant without ABS... Now thats asking too much.

But then Toyota asks the same money for a car which has hardly any equipment.
But toyota is much roomier, and has ABS with EBD.

Coming back to swift, she is silent, she is refined, and the engine won't make you deaf. It may lack the "locomotive pull me in 5th gear 1000rpm" of the micra or even the Toyota, but the kick at 2000rpm makes up for it.

But there is a huge problem. It has a waiting list, a long one at that.
And it does not do anything more than the Ritz, except for telling you how much FE you got.
And in same trim, ritz costs 5.28 + you get a lot of accessories free as its available off the shelf.

So why is it the best selling diesel? I really do not know.
Its a good looking car, its an icon.

your best paid stars may not know acting, but then people flock to their movies.
Same case here. It does not a trick or too, but then the alternatives are better. And the best alternative is really the poor cousin from Maruti, the Ritz.
But I guess looks do matter, and swift is a looker.

Will the Liva dent its sales. Only time will tell, because Tata, Ford, Nissan, VW... all tried, and could not.

Will it be our next car? Nope. If I have to buy a Maruti, Ritz makes more sense financially, and even with the roomier cabin, its not as airy as the Ritz.

So I guess final battle is between Toyota and Ritzy

Toyota gives me acres of space, and Ritzy gives refinement, equipment and a proven track record, not to mention a lower cost.

Tough decision, right?
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Old 26th September 2011, 14:28   #104
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Not at all. Why do you need the space, when you've got the White Elephant for out of town trips ?

Since you are talking long term, the only problem with a Swift / Ritz boot is that the perambulator will be a very tight fit
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Old 26th September 2011, 14:37   #105
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayank10 View Post
Yes, you are correct, first free service- 1000kms, second- 10000, third- 20000.
Got my Blu (Petrol Liva) serviced yesterday after one month of purchase (700 kms)

Petrol Liva has got decent NVH levels, i am not sure about diesel though.
Also, i like the center console, please don't kill me

And Scooter???????
Toyota as skimped on stuff like sound deadening. A must even in the most refined diesels. And whats the deal with the teeny weeny fuel guage!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
Not at all. Why do you need the space, when you've got the White Elephant for out of town trips ?

Since you are talking long term, the only problem with a Swift / Ritz boot is that the perambulator will be a very tight fit
I want to take the new car on out of town trips. White elephant throws tantrums and drinks lot of fuel, unless I take her to truly remote places.
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