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View Poll Results: The frugal practical hatchback to buy
Swift D - National diesel car 75 27.37%
Ritz D - The weird alternative to national diesel car 51 18.61%
Figo - The sensible car on paper 66 24.09%
i20 - Expensive but worth it! Reasons given in post 23 8.39%
Punto - Its not a TATA its a FIAT! 38 13.87%
Something else - Explained in a post 21 7.66%
Voters: 274. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 26th September 2011, 15:54   #106
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

@tsk, if interior noise is your biggest put off against the Liva, can't you just add sound deadening material on your own at a later date and live with it?

Also is the in cabin NVH even more than Safari?
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Old 26th September 2011, 16:01   #107
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

TSK - Among these the Ritz seems the best bet, even better than the Swift even in my eyes.

Somehow the only usp of the Liva seems to be space and better TASS compared to your current TASS.

Don't know somehow though the vista will I guess not be as trouble free as the Ritz (both do have the same engine though), but you seem to be choosing 1 -ve over the other -ve (TASS). Yet for sheer value nothing really beats the new Vista (which does have a better quality feel as well.) But then after all those years of getting the safari serviced you probably need and want a change.

Maruti could have done so much more with the swift this time round, but as ususal have just done enough to continue the legacy, no sport version / trip and yet again the rear feels claustrophobic, besides the interiors though as step up over the last one still feels a notch below the ritz probably due to the style aspect.

Since you wish to avoid the vista and punto Ritz seems to be the car for you. The liva will last but you will be bored of it earlier (on the inside) and want a change sooner, Ritz on the other hand has really nice and stylish interiors and yet sells in decent enough numbers.
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Old 26th September 2011, 16:52   #108
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Our experiences with Tata vehicles seem to have been very different, we have 2 indicas in the family, one diesel and one LPG, both around 3 and a half years old. Had to visit A.S.S. for non regular service/bodywork related stuff maybe 3-4 times between the two of them .

I know you're looking for a hatchback, but the Indigo CS is about the same length as the Punto and offers more than what you seem to be looking for. Why don't you look at the tdi versions?
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Old 26th September 2011, 17:00   #109
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Nice review of the Liva I would agree that the in-cabin noise issue can be corrected, with insulation, carpeting and damping in the doors. However the lack of features and poor quality interiors are things that I cannot suggest anything about. These become personal decisions based on the priority one assigns to these aspects of the car. Undoubtedly TASS is superb, and you may feel disappointed with the interiors of the Liva, but you will congratulate yourself for the sheer simplicity of owning & maintaining a Toyota.

Based on the options provided, and your preference, I've picked the Ritz. I would choose the Ritz as a future hatchback too, but if the Vista reports are good in the future, may consider the Sedan class as well for true VFM. To me, the interiors of a car are very important because I feel most of my time will be spent inside it rather than looking at it.

The Figo thread is growing alarmingly with people reporting various issues with their Figos - from rattling to the engine dying, so am not confident enough to recommend it.

Ps. The same diesel engine was in use in the Fusion, Fiesta Classic, and now the Figo. Since the Figo is presumably lighter (ESP than the Fusion), I never thought it would be so under-powered. Or is it the gearing?
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Old 26th September 2011, 20:22   #110
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Talking re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Toyota as skimped on stuff like sound deadening. A must even in the most refined diesels. And whats the deal with the teeny weeny fuel guage!
Sorry if i am going OT, but reminds me of Aamir Khan's song "I hate you, like i love you"

You seem to like/ unlike the Liva at the same time.

Meanwhile, fuel gauge's size is fine, unless you want the car to scream," Low Petrol''. And surely sound can be reduced using dampeners/ under body coating. One Etios owner informed me that NVH levels in his car has reduced by a good margin since he got a coating.

Ritz is also a good option though, so, all the best for your purchase.
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Old 26th September 2011, 20:55   #111
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Hey, if your getting 20k cash discount or any goodies worth 20k on the ritz in your city, i would suggest you to just buy it.

Few positives about the ritz are:
1) Front Seating position. (Will give you a similar view like your Safari, upright seating position.)
2) The new swift has lost all the turbo charm, the turbo power burst is not felt, but in the ritz you will feel the turbo at 2000RPM. So its fun to drive her.
3) In your excel sheet you have written the worst thing about the ritz is the interior space???
I can only request you to read GTO's review for the ritz in detail.
Ritz is a very spacious car mate, leg space is very good in the front and Rear unless the front seats are pushed all the way back which is not required ever. Boot is close to 250 litres plus you get a 60:40 rear seat spilt.
Its only JAZZ and Vista which beats ritz in terms of interior space, figo legroom is more but width is lesser than ritz so end of the day ritz is the 3rd best spacious hatch you can get below 5.5lakh rupees!!!

If at all you choose to buy the ritz, please bear in mind you have to do a complusory tyre upgrade to 185/70 R14 so allocate budget for that upfront, only after the tyre upgrade you will like the handling of the car and you'll enjoy the car for 5years+, you will not feel its a tall boy after wider tyres. Not a major dip in FE, i'm getting 18+ easily with medium traffic city drives all the time.
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Old 26th September 2011, 22:00   #112
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Default Re: Swift Diesel - You are the Fool..err Fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Will it be our next car? Nope. If I have to buy a Maruti, Ritz makes more sense financially, and even with the roomier cabin, its not as airy as the Ritz.

Toyota gives me acres of space, and Ritzy gives refinement, equipment and a proven track record, not to mention a lower cost. Tough decision, right?
You are one of the few who would prefer a Ritz over the Swift, although the long waiting time for a Swift has created some demand for the Ritz. I find both the Swift and Ritz impractical for long trips and airport runs due to a lack of boot space but the split folding of the rear seats on the Ritz does seem interesting and so does the innovative glove compartment on top of the dashboard.

Given the choice between a Ritz and an Etios, I would pick the Ritz because of the proven track record. I'm sceptical about the build quality of the Etios, which comes from a manufacturer that has done some serious cost-cutting as opposed to a manufacturer that has done all it could in terms of features to push the price higher (Marutis were traditionally sold without ICE, air con, ABS etc.).
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Old 26th September 2011, 23:12   #113
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

If two are travelling, then Ritz rear is much better than Swift. However, if three are travelling the platform on which the front seat is mounted creates a problem for the passengers sitting near the door to place one of his/her feet. It is very inconvenient as I discovered once. Never seen that in any other car even Wagon R.
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Old 26th September 2011, 23:25   #114
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Me too would suggest that have a look again at the new vista. Very much improved in finesse.Good rugged and comfortable for out of town trips. And I thought that the Liva is a car, not a scooter......4 wheels, 5 seats. Isnt it?

Last edited by sidindica : 26th September 2011 at 23:36.
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Old 27th September 2011, 19:04   #115
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Maruti is giving some 20K MGA package with ritz up north. Its available off the shelf!
As for beat diesel, I value my knees, and I don't think she will be comfortable at 100kmph with rpm crossing 3000!
Just checked with Chowgule Industries(Maruti Dealer),Pune. Yes! Ritz Diesel is available off-the-shelf!! There is no discount/freebies as yet but the SA told me that he will know by 1st-Oct if there is going to be any offer on Ritz Diesel at all.
Current OTR, Pune
Ritz LDi - 553,816 Vdi - 593,891, Vdi(ABS) - 614,040
Also took a test drive. Here is my short report -
- The demo Ritz Diesel VDi was very much abused! ODO read ~33k!
- very easy to drive
- Excellent driver seating position , gear lever position good too!
- could not feel any turbo lag
- Will need a little bit of getting used-to for tacho and speedo which are bit far from each other
- I could hear engine noise inside the cabin at speeds beyond 60KMPH which is not good.May be it will improve once we switch the music player!
So, good overall just that it does not have a ZDi so will have to spend some good money on accessories.
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Old 28th September 2011, 15:09   #116
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Default Re: Swift Diesel - You are the Fool..err Fuel

tsk1979, I am surprised that you did not encountered the problem of knee brushing against the steering column when entering the driver's seat. Moreover, when I test rode it I found the driveability good for the short distance that I could manage for the car.

But, I was really surprised when I got back to the back seat, for I found it smaller to my settings of the driver seat. Please note that I am five-&-half feet tall with a shoe size of 7 & my Woodys scrapped badly against the driver's seat back side. I must say that the rear seat was more soft as compared to my Santro Zing, & the 3rd person would be more comfortable because of absence of transmission hump, but, overall I felt that the car is smaller than Santro... How come you (with a 6+ feet frame) would be comfortable in Swift as compared to the Ritz?

Moreover, the luggage space in Swift is smaller now (with no 60:40 split of the rear seats)... Are you sure you can drive with all the luggage to Punjab???

Are you sure you aren't bowled over by the star attraction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Now here is an icon.
It has a waiting list so long, that by the time you get one, you will be too old to drive, your grandchildren will have grandchildren, or maybe the world would have exploded due to global warming.
So what does Maruti do with the most wanted car.
It discontinues it, only to give us a bigger and better version.

First lets see what is the new Swift.
Its bigger
Its lighter
Its more fuel efficient
And suddenly, if you want ABS, you need to pay a lot more. Vdi ABS is discontinued.

It also gets a display will keeps reminding you how fuel efficient it is.

And so, we end up in Rohan motors showroom, trying to get a Swift Diesel TD.
Now, she is a star, and like any start, there are tantrums. So the salesman tells us, there is no TD car available.

"I saw one outside" I retort.
"Its a petrol" comes the reply.
"It said Zdi at rear"
"errr... lemme check"

So inspite of their best efforts, I manage to get a TD car.

Formalities completed, I am told that I have to go on their TD route.
Its a few 100 meters long.

Thats the time the star will give us.

So lets make the most of it.

Well as first impressions go, its definitely roomier now. You do not feel cramped in the drivers seat, though rear seat is the same. That said, its not better than the Ritz, its unwanted cousin.

Everything else, except the shape, is same. Its old wine in old bottle with new flavor and a new price tag. Its lighter too, but I wonder how much difference a few kgs makes.

That said, its a good car, it always was, but 5.60 for a variant without ABS... Now thats asking too much.

But then Toyota asks the same money for a car which has hardly any equipment.
But toyota is much roomier, and has ABS with EBD.

Coming back to swift, she is silent, she is refined, and the engine won't make you deaf. It may lack the "locomotive pull me in 5th gear 1000rpm" of the micra or even the Toyota, but the kick at 2000rpm makes up for it.

But there is a huge problem. It has a waiting list, a long one at that.
And it does not do anything more than the Ritz, except for telling you how much FE you got.
And in same trim, ritz costs 5.28 + you get a lot of accessories free as its available off the shelf.

So why is it the best selling diesel? I really do not know.
Its a good looking car, its an icon.

your best paid stars may not know acting, but then people flock to their movies.
Same case here. It does not a trick or too, but then the alternatives are better. And the best alternative is really the poor cousin from Maruti, the Ritz.
But I guess looks do matter, and swift is a looker.

Will the Liva dent its sales. Only time will tell, because Tata, Ford, Nissan, VW... all tried, and could not.

Will it be our next car? Nope. If I have to buy a Maruti, Ritz makes more sense financially, and even with the roomier cabin, its not as airy as the Ritz.

So I guess final battle is between Toyota and Ritzy

Toyota gives me acres of space, and Ritzy gives refinement, equipment and a proven track record, not to mention a lower cost.

Tough decision, right?
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Old 28th September 2011, 15:16   #117
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Default Re: Swift Diesel - You are the Fool..err Fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
tsk1979, I am surprised that you did not encountered the problem of knee brushing against the steering column when entering the driver's seat. Moreover, when I test rode it I found the driveability good for the short distance that I could manage for the car.

But, I was really surprised when I got back to the back seat, for I found it smaller to my settings of the driver seat. Please note that I am five-&-half feet tall with a shoe size of 7 & my Woodys scrapped badly against the driver's seat back side. I must say that the rear seat was more soft as compared to my Santro Zing, & the 3rd person would be more comfortable because of absence of transmission hump, but, overall I felt that the car is smaller than Santro... How come you (with a 6+ feet frame) would be comfortable in Swift as compared to the Ritz?

Moreover, the luggage space in Swift is smaller now (with no 60:40 split of the rear seats)... Are you sure you can drive with all the luggage to Punjab???

Are you sure you aren't bowled over by the star attraction?
On second thoughts, there was something funny about leg and shin position, but the TD was so short, that it is difficult to make out such things. Rest assured, our next car will not be the new swift(unless they offer 30K discount).
So now its between
Ritz Vdi with ABS (first contender) vs the Toyota Liva.
Micra is out, unless I listen to the heart, and take the plunge.

Hopefully, by october end the new car should be in our garage.
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Old 28th September 2011, 15:37   #118
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

I guess the decision is pretty simple now :
- Ritz (value for money, proven model, Maruti)
- Liva (high NVH, unproven model, cost cutting evident)
- Micra (poor brakes, no ABS, small support network)

If you let your brain decide, it won't even take a minute to choose Ritz.

Go with your head - select the most practical car with proven record, no known issues and widespread support network.

It is too soon to comment, but IMHO Ritz will fetch higher resale value and will have lower maintenance cost as compared to Liva and Micra.

Rohan
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Old 28th September 2011, 16:21   #119
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Now now, hold on. Don't call the Liva an unproven model just yet. Toyota does have a ridiculous reputation for quality and reliability (few recent year exceptions aside).

That said, I'd be willing to wager, in the long run, a Liva will give less issues than a Ritz (not that either car will have any major issues anyways).

The extra interior room will really come in handy on long roadtrips.

Dampening and underbody coating should take care of most of the Liva's NVH issues, but the main reason I feel that the Liva is the perfect car for you is that it's the embodiment of what you stated you originally wanted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I am kind of looking for a car which satisfies the very old tagline of the "Fill it,shut it, forget it". I want a Hero Honda of cars I guess?
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Old 28th September 2011, 16:59   #120
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Default re: Budget diesel hatch - For one with A.S.S. Phobia - EDIT: Booked Liva GD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
IMHO Ritz will fetch higher resale value and will have lower maintenance cost as compared to Liva and Micra.
How can you claim that Ritz will fetch higher resale value than Liva? Do you have any data to support your claim or you are just guessing? Today, when I see other T-Badge cars, they fetch similar resale (in some case higher - Qualis) values when we compare them with the successful models from Marutis.

[data source : Carwale.com]
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