Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > What Car? > Hatchbacks


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd August 2011, 00:27   #61
Senior - BHPian
 
oxyzen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Not fixed.
Posts: 1,026
Thanked: 265 Times
Default Re: New Jazz? New Swift? What premium petrol hatchback?

Love driving?
Swift. The 1.2L K series engine with entertaining handling can blow you away.

Everything else.
Jazz. More space, better interiors ( I guess), Equally good engine, and a truly premium image.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Define premium. Only size? If so, then cars like the C Class & 3 series aren't premium either (considering they have less space than 1/2 price cars like the Altis).

I think the i10 Kappa2 is most definitely a premium hatch. Heck, I like it WAY more than even the i20. Why premium?
What is premium? It is the way people look at the car. And that depends on
1) Size
2) Brand (If not, a BMW 3 series should not be considered premium when compared to superb)
3) Built quality (mainly interiors)
4) And finally price. (Unless the price is high Indians don't call it premium)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The only downer to the i10 is its basic ride quality. But then, the Jazz is no magic carpet either.
I dont think Ride & Handling define Premium. If so neither I20 nor Jazz would be.

Regarding I10
It is not premium because the car does not provide ample space.
It is not premium because the car does not have a Macho image.
It is not premium because it runs on puny 13" wheels. Hell no alloys.

I 10 is without a doubt an excellent car in today's market. But no way it is premium.

Optra SRV is a premium hatch although it is not even half the car I10 is.

It is after all the definition of premium that is misleading. To each one his own.

Last edited by oxyzen : 22nd August 2011 at 00:32.
oxyzen is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 22nd August 2011, 01:14   #62
Senior - BHPian
 
devarshi84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ahmedabad - Tor
Posts: 3,996
Thanked: 118 Times
Default

When we use the word premium, it is mostly for the way the product is perceived by the masses so i10 is not a premium car. But then neither are polo, Jazz, Swift and i10. The 500 and Beetle are perceived as premium hatches atleast in the Indian market and SR-V was once a premium car when hatches found it tough to break the 5 lacs barrier. A premium product and quality product are not always the same.

I10 is not a premium car, but that doesn't change the fact that it is more capable than the competition for the price.

It is sad how most manufacturers are missing an Automatic car forget a diesel automatic car in their lineups. Also to say that i10 and A-star transmissions are not the best in the business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ra'ul M View Post
Can you add CNG kits to a diesel car?
The solution is not commercially available to my knowledge.

Last edited by mobike008 : 23rd August 2011 at 10:48. Reason: back to back posts. Please refrain
devarshi84 is offline  
Old 22nd August 2011, 10:00   #63
BHPian
 
patil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Shorapur
Posts: 344
Thanked: 55 Times
Default Re: New Jazz? New Swift? What premium petrol hatchback?

Hi,
For a premium hatchback I would definetely recomend the i20 cos its the only car which is loaded to the teeth with features such as 6 airbags and sunroof apart from so many other features such as bluetooth connectivity, auto folding mirrors and many more.

However if u have to decide among the swift and the jazz I would definetely recomend the jazz. The jazz with the current price tag coupled with the build quality and ease of ownership honda offeres is a steal. The only advantage that the swift has is that it offers auto climate control. However space wise both rear seat and boot the jazz is leaps ahead of the swift. now the jazz offers reclining rear seats which are good for long drives and relaxing.

However the jazz is a little less fuel efficient that the swift. The new swift offers DTE and instantaneous milage indicators. But the jazz has the safety features such as ABS and Airbags in the basic variant also but the swift offers them only on the top end model.
patil is offline  
Old 22nd August 2011, 12:37   #64
Team-BHP Support
 
suhaas307's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,054
Thanked: 6,601 Times
Default Re: New Jazz? New Swift? What premium petrol hatchback?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post

What is premium? It is the way people look at the car. And that depends on
1) Size
I don't think size has anything to do with the 'premium' factor that the car might enjoy.

A small car may be more premium than a larger car.

For example, the Fiat 500 and the VW Beetle are premium products here in India. Definitely more premium than cars like the Scorpio and Safari, and some other sedans like the Swift and its Dzire counterpart.

Similarly, the Mercedes C-Class is more 'premium' than say, a Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry. Both cars are much larger than the Mercedes.

Heck! The Jazz is more premium than the Toyota Etios, despite the rather obvious difference in size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
I dont think Ride & Handling define Premium. If so neither I20 nor Jazz would be.
Of course, it does.

A premium car may not be loaded to the gills with features, but what it must compulsorily offer, is good ride and handling. Look at all the premium cars in the market. All of them offer a great ride, and some cars offer good handling too. Mercedes makes cars that are considered premium, primarily because the ride that the car boasts of, is top-notch. And then comes the features and the build-quality, etc.

The Jazz has a good ride. It's comfortable, but gets jarring over uneven and rough surfaces. Same goes for the i20, as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patil View Post
Hi,
For a premium hatchback I would definetely recomend the i20 cos its the only car which is loaded to the teeth with features such as 6 airbags and sunroof apart from so many other features such as bluetooth connectivity, auto folding mirrors and many more.
It's a good car, the i20. But dynamics is an important factor in a premium car, and the i20 is dynamically flawed. It's handling is forgettable. It might be loaded to the gills with features ike sunroof, auto-climate-control, auto-ORVMs and so on, but dynamics and overall quality lets it down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patil View Post
However the jazz is a little less fuel efficient that the swift. The new swift offers DTE and instantaneous milage indicators. But the jazz has the safety features such as ABS and Airbags in the basic variant also but the swift offers them only on the top end model.
I disagree.

The Jazz has reported FE figures of 15-20 km/liter on mixed driving-cycles. The Jazz too, comes with the instantaneous-mileage-indicator. Our Jazz has reported 14 km/liter in the city, with the AC on. The figure jumped to 15-16 with the AC switched off, and we reported 19.5 with the AC on, on the highway and 21 with the AC switched off.

Those figures indicate that the Jazz is as good, if not probably, better than the Swift, in terms of fuel-efficiency.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 22nd August 2011 at 12:41.
suhaas307 is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 22nd August 2011, 13:03   #65
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 245
Thanked: 72 Times
Default Re: New Jazz? New Swift? What premium petrol hatchback?

As far as I am concerned, apart from handling Swift is beaten comprehensively by the Jazz so be it quality, space, looks (subjective), engine, safety(?), image or even reliability for that matter.
Its a not brainer for me if I was asked to choose among the two - its Jazz all the way.
akhilesh is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 22nd August 2011, 14:31   #66
BHPian
 
nurni76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Gurgaon/BLR
Posts: 881
Thanked: 328 Times
Default Re: New Jazz? New Swift? What premium petrol hatchback?

Quote:
Originally Posted by akhilesh View Post
As far as I am concerned, apart from handling Swift is beaten comprehensively by the Jazz so be it quality, space, looks (subjective), engine, safety(?), image or even reliability for that matter.
Its a not brainer for me if I was asked to choose among the two - its Jazz all the way.
I agree on space and image (Honda over Suzuki). But swift has a better image than jazz atleast in India. In terms of safety both are equally good. Engine performance, both are equally good. In fact K series is slightly more fuel efficient and has a better low end torque compared to the Jazz engine. Jazz has a couple of horses more that's about it. Handling and ride quality swift is definitely better (new swift) and for some one who loves to drive these are important parameters.

Reliability wise Swift is on par with Honda. In fact if one considers overall cost of ownership, swift will come on top due to cheaper spares and maintenance cost.

But clearly where swift loses out is in space both in cabin as well as boot. This is where the Jazz really scores.
nurni76 is offline  
Old 22nd August 2011, 15:02   #67
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hyderabad/Blr
Posts: 648
Thanked: 151 Times
Default Re: New Jazz? New Swift? What premium petrol hatchback?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nurni76 View Post
I agree on space and image (Honda over Suzuki). But swift has a better image than jazz atleast in India. In terms of safety both are equally good. Engine performance, both are equally good. In fact K series is slightly more fuel efficient and has a better low end torque compared to the Jazz engine. Jazz has a couple of horses more that's about it. Handling and ride quality swift is definitely better (new swift) and for some one who loves to drive these are important parameters.

Reliability wise Swift is on par with Honda. In fact if one considers overall cost of ownership, swift will come on top due to cheaper spares and maintenance cost.

But clearly where swift loses out is in space both in cabin as well as boot. This is where the Jazz really scores.
I have driven old gen of Swift and Jazz, There is simply no comparison between swift and jazz, Jazz does feel like a segment higher in all aspect, even driving and handling. Simply don't go by papers of just 2 bhp difference, there is whole lot of differences while driving.
shamanth is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 22nd August 2011, 15:12   #68
Senior - BHPian
 
Latheesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bangalore/Kannur
Posts: 2,983
Thanked: 2,664 Times
Default Re: New Jazz? New Swift? What premium petrol hatchback?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nurni76 View Post
But swift has a better image than jazz atleast in India.
No.. I dont think so :-) I have seen many swift owners praising Jazz but most of them had not driven it, but they know it is good. Why they did not drive Jazz? because it was priced above 8L OTR, they did not want to test drive a car which they cannot afford. Just see how many Swift Zxi and Jazz sells in the coming months.

But if I am in the market for new petrol hatch and options are Swift and Jazz. I will close my eyes and go for Swift. Just because Jazz cannot take some of the roads I travel. I'll learn more about this within few months as my friend cancelled his Swift booking and going for Jazz.

And coming to premium hatch from average Indian perspective (I am not considering 500 and Beetle - they are luxuary and s. luxuary hatches in India - and many Indians dont even know that there is a car called FIAT 500)

i10 - not a premium hatch, best entry level hatch available in India
i20 - yes, I have seen many people go ga ga over i20
Polo - No/Yes - Design is not quirky to become a premium hatch
Fabia - Yes
Punto - No - I have seen many people telling Punto design is bad + interior is extremely boring (except that steering)

so here defining PREMIUM itself is difficult!

Last edited by Latheesh : 22nd August 2011 at 15:30.
Latheesh is online now   (1) Thanks
Old 22nd August 2011, 17:50   #69
BHPian
 
nurni76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Gurgaon/BLR
Posts: 881
Thanked: 328 Times
Default Re: New Jazz? New Swift? What premium petrol hatchback?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shamanth View Post
I have driven old gen of Swift and Jazz, There is simply no comparison between swift and jazz, Jazz does feel like a segment higher in all aspect, even driving and handling. Simply don't go by papers of just 2 bhp difference, there is whole lot of differences while driving.
I am not going by the figures alone. I have driven Jazz extensively (my friend own's one). The new swift is definitely better in ride and handling by a good margin. Jazz feels bigger and more premium in terms on interior quality. but fun to drive definitely swift.
nurni76 is offline  
Old 22nd August 2011, 19:09   #70
BHPian
 
rangarx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Udumalpet / Che
Posts: 269
Thanked: 107 Times
Default Re: New Jazz? New Swift? What premium petrol hatchback?

This is a no brainer my friend.

Any time Jazz wins over Swift.

Reasons:

Clever use of cabin space.
Bigger boot.
Jazz is a city sans boot.
That Honda badge.
Excellent mileage.
Sheer presence.
Exclusivity.
rangarx is offline  
Old 22nd August 2011, 20:25   #71
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Delhi - Chennai
Posts: 65
Thanked: 2 Times
Default Re: New Jazz? New Swift? What premium petrol hatchback?

I consider myself to be a decently hardcore Maruti fan and having worked on the Swift have a soft corner for it....having said that, did a Jazz TD today.

The Jazz has an amazing amount of space and I think I have not seen any hatch in India with that much space and places for nick-knacks.
3 adults were comfortably able to sit (not squeeze) in the rear seat while the front seats were occupied by a couple of 5'10" or so gentlemen.
The under-front-seat vents seemed like a neat touch and am hoping would be pretty useful for the rear folks in the Delhi summer.

From a driving perspective the Jazz seems to have a shortage of torque when fully loaded and takes ages to go from 40-70 in the 4th gear. Was not too convinced with the city drivability of the car...and i think this may be the only point where the Swift scores over the Jazz. Did not try any sort of handling maneuvers so would not comment on that but ride was comfortable both in the rear and the front with acceptable amount of tire noise at cruising speeds. Found the braking to be very good with a good pedal feel.

My cousin instantaneously liked the Jazz and booked the Jazz Select for a booking price of 50k on being assured the delivery within 4 weeks. OTR was 6.2x

peace,
~kg
kapilvgupta is offline  
Old 22nd August 2011, 20:29   #72
Newbie
 
aseems's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Navi Mumbai
Posts: 10
Thanked: 6 Times
Default Re: New Jazz? New Swift? What premium petrol hatchback?

I have just started looking around for a hatchback and have finalised Jazz. The family was more interested in the Figo but slowly everybody is rooting for the Jazz. Though it would mean stretching the budget and spending more time chatting with the bank people but anything for Jazz. Cant wait to drive one soon.
aseems is offline  
Old 22nd August 2011, 20:35   #73
Senior - BHPian
 
VeluM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,296
Thanked: 663 Times
Default Re: New Jazz? New Swift? What premium petrol hatchback?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latheesh View Post
I will close my eyes and go for Swift. Just because Jazz cannot take some of the roads I travel. I'll learn more about this within few months as my friend cancelled his Swift booking and going for Jazz.
Maybe, but I'm not completely sure for two reasons.

One, there aren't enough Jazzes on the road to be seen very visibly to be able to handle the best India's roads can throw at it.

And Two, because of this:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Latheesh View Post
so here defining PREMIUM itself is difficult!
and vote for Jazz.

Last edited by VeluM : 22nd August 2011 at 20:36.
VeluM is offline  
Old 23rd August 2011, 12:18   #74
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 146
Thanked: 50 Times
Default Re: New Jazz? New Swift? What premium petrol hatchback?

Hi... in a similar state here.

This is going to be a primary car for me. My requirements are the following:

- Space (seating space + boot space)
- Reasonable power
- Maximum usage in city (90%)
- Monthly driving < 1000 km
- Need safety features - Airbags + ABS (nearly a must or a big deal swinger)
- Of course need good fuel efficiency
- Premium feeling

I plan to keep it for 5 years +.

I am willing to spend ~6.5 lakhs. In Bangalore this translates to 5.5L +/- 10% ex-showroom. Do not want to stretch the budget.


I started with lookin out for a sedan (Dezie, Etios, Indigo etc.) but did not find any giving the 'upgrade' feel. A reason why space is one big criteria.

So I have shortlisted the following:

1) Honda Jazz - nearly paid the booking amount. Just holding on to see if could have a better deal (another car at cheaper price, but meeting criteria)

Rs. 6.75L

2) Skoda fabia Elegance 1.2 Petrol - this gove similar feeling as Jazz - good space, pretty premium

Cost ~6.75 L (i think can come down by another 20k)

Now comparo:

Skoda
+ves
- Better ride
- Fog lamps standard
- 15000km service interval - service cost expected to be ~5k
- 25k cheaper than Jazz (expected after negotiation)
- Alloy wheel (good to have, not must for me)

-ves
- All the horror stories about ***
- coarse engine
- no electrically adjustible mirrors
- music system is basic and no steering mounted controls


As far as Jazz is concerned:

+ves
- Most bells & whistels
- Good OE music system (i am not a big music buff though)
- Honda reliability
- Magic seats + boot space (384 lts vs. 315 of Fabia)
- beautiful 4cyl engine with expected better FE

- ves
- No fog lamps, alloys
- No absolute negative but just that you pay 25k more than Fabia

A$$ : you can expect the cost of servicing to be similar to Fabia owing to 5000 km servic interval.

So confused. Request inputs. Looking to book in next 2-3 days.

Many thanks
~maniac
serious_maniac is offline  
Old 23rd August 2011, 12:41   #75
Team-BHP Support
 
suhaas307's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,054
Thanked: 6,601 Times
Default Re: New Jazz? New Swift? What premium petrol hatchback?

Quote:
Originally Posted by serious_maniac View Post
Hi... in a similar state here.

This is going to be a primary car for me. My requirements are the following:

- Space (seating space + boot space)
The Jazz has the space of a sedan and a boot that can hold 5 large suitcases - 350 liters. Thing is, it's so well designed that despite the lack in 'volume', you can still stuff a lot in it. My Civic doesn't hold the suitcases as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by serious_maniac View Post
- Reasonable power
1.2, 90 horses. Lacks bottom end, but makes use of its power when you build up the revs. It's reasonably powerful, and once it goes past 3000 RPM, it absolutely flies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by serious_maniac View Post
- Maximum usage in city (90%)
The Jazz is perfect for the city. Like I said earlier, it packs the space of a sedan in a car that's just a hatchback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by serious_maniac View Post
- Monthly driving < 1000 km
1000 km a month is quite a lot. You might need to consider a diesel. Although the Jazz should be good enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by serious_maniac View Post
- Need safety features - Airbags + ABS (nearly a must or a big deal swinger)
Safety features are standard across all variants of the Jazz. Airbags and ABS standard!

Quote:
Originally Posted by serious_maniac View Post
- Of course need good fuel efficiency
14-16 km-liter (AC on/off) in the city. 19-21 km-liter (AC on/off) on the highway. This is not 'claimed'. It has been achieved, by us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by serious_maniac View Post
- Premium feeling
The Jazz feels as premium as the European hatchbacks in the same segment. Quality plastics and quality material that's used in the cabin, is apparent.

Looks like this is a no-brainer for you.

All the best with your new car. Drive safe!
suhaas307 is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jazz X Vs Swift ZDi Vs Micra XV Premium ashish22 Hatchbacks 53 17th November 2011 11:39
Honda does the Jazz...again. New Small Car to be Priced at Premium ukamath The Indian Car Scene 28 20th July 2010 14:58


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 02:18.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks