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Old 27th May 2012, 18:28   #136
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

So, finally I am in the market for a premium Diesel Hatch. I am only looking at top end models with ABS, Airbags and the works .

Have TDed 4 Cars so far

Nissan Micra

Pros:

1. Great Interiors
2. Cute Design
3. Good quality overall
4. No lag in the Engine

Cons:

1. No Passenger Airbag, No ABS (quite shocking )
2. Did not stable at high speed. Steering started vibrating at 100 kmph +

Ford Figo

Pros

1. Value for Money !!
2. Spacious
3. NO Lag and good to drive

Cons

1. Did not like the interiors
2. Don't know how to put it - the car did not give me a very good feel when I sat inside. Interiors looked similar to my 2007 Swift VXI
3. No Rear Power windows

Volkswagen Vento

Pros

1. Great Build quality
2. One service per year
3. good FE
4. Reasonably good to drive..very stable
5. Seat + Steering adjustment

Cons

1. No Climate control
2. Very Expensive (coming to OTR price of 8.5 Lac in Navi Mumbai)
3. Thin Steering
4. Rear headroom at a premium
5. 3rd passenger at back is a squeeze

Fiat Punto

Pros

1. Awesome styling
2. Great tank like build. Loved the "Thunk" of the doors
3. Phenomenal steering wheel. The best I have held so far
4. Fully Loaded Variant at 7.63 Lac OTR in Navi Mumbai ....VFM
5. Cozy Interiors

Cons

1. Fiat A.S.S. ???



As you can see, I was sold to Punto the moment I saw it. The TD only confirmed it. What a feel to drive this car. Really solid, really stable. My only concern is the dodgy A.S.S. Will Fiat going solo solve this ?

To tell the truth, Although I am trying very hard to not think of Punto, my mind keeps on veering back to it. Just cant get it out of mind. But is car buying an emotional decision ?

My wife is inclined towards Polo due to the VW badge .

Totally confused now !
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Old 4th June 2012, 12:13   #137
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

So, the decision has been made. Going for Punto 2012 1.3 MJD Emotion. It was just too good to resist .

Not frozen the color yet - most likely white or the medium gray.

Will book it this week...
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Old 4th June 2012, 12:32   #138
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

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Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
So, the decision has been made. Going for Punto 2012 1.3 MJD Emotion. It was just too good to resist .

Not frozen the color yet - most likely white or the medium gray.

Will book it this week...
Great decision there Peregrine. With Fiat going solo i'm sure A.S.S will improve. Mumbai being a prime market, it won't be too long before the dedicated Fiat service center opens up. The only question will be the number of service centres & locations of these SC's across Mumbai and how soon they do it.

Coming to the car, you are already in love with it.. I'm sure it will only get better with every drive.
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Old 5th June 2012, 17:33   #139
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Why are things always so difficult? One of my friends convinced me to TD the Honda Jazz (I know its PETROL )

And what do you know - I loved Jazz more than the Punto. So, it took little more than a week for my love affair with Punto to be triumphed by the Jazz.

Now I am even more confused...

Jazz positives : Everything

Jazz Negatives : Low GC (is this an issue?) and no auto central lock. and PETROL

Punto Positives : Almost everything
Punto Negative : A.S.S. and reliability (?)


What does the Junta here say?
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Old 5th June 2012, 19:40   #140
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

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Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post

What does the Junta here say?
Punto for me if I was in your shoes. Primary reason...Diesel. Secondly, as you said, the car as a package is good and Fiat A.S.S will only get better. Honestly, for a place like Mumbai/Navi Mumbai, I expect Fiat will provide top quality services right from the start.
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Old 5th June 2012, 20:01   #141
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

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Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
Now I am even more confused...

Jazz positives : Everything

Jazz Negatives : Low GC (is this an issue?) and no auto central lock. and PETROL

Punto Positives : Almost everything
Punto Negative : A.S.S. and reliability (?)


What does the Junta here say?
Hi Peregrine, I am a newbie too. But the I can say this - the ground clearance for Jazz has not created any issues so far, having been driven on the Western Expressway. We got ours in May, this year. If you install any security systems, then I guess it could take care of the auto central lock.

As for it running on petrol, well, we silenced reason and just went for the car because we loved it (earlier, we were considering the Swift).

I have read the Punto is great, as Fiat cars are wont to be. But please keep in mind the rigmarole the company is headed for, now that it is planning to wean itself away from Tata's network of after sales and dealers. While logically it is supposed to set things right, but Fiat had made another effort 2 years back when launching the Linea Tjet - it tried overhauling the sales experience with separate lounges and even spruce up aftersales. But the horror stories still kept coming. It might not be as dire as it sounds but I still remember the mail I had got from a Punto-owner who sounded completely defeated by the aftersales or the lack of it. But, I would not leave my car's after sales to luck. As it is, dealers and their workshops of most OEMs are far from being customer-friendly and on top of that, we start with a notorious network. A double whammy.

Though, Honda aftersales will still be expensive but compared to Fiat, not so much and certainly less hassling.
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Old 5th June 2012, 21:25   #142
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
With Fiat going solo i'm sure A.S.S will improve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shome View Post
Fiat A.S.S will only get better. Honestly, for a place like Mumbai/Navi Mumbai, I expect Fiat will provide top quality services right from the start.
Maybe , but I wonder why the majority thinks that Fiat going solo is going to solve all the A$S problems. Let us not forget that when Fiat came to India, they did have their own set up, which I'm sure was worse off than today's Tata - Fiat combo.

Why did brilliant cars like the Uno/Palio/Sienna not click in our market? And if Fiat could make a difference alone, why haven't they done that till now?

None of the players who started off on a wrong foot at the A$S arena have made up ground till now as far as I can remember. Fiat, Mitsubishi, Skoda... (correct me if I'm wrong). And I really don't believe that Fiat is gonna do a better job alone, than with Tata.
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Old 6th June 2012, 09:49   #143
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Quote:
Originally Posted by esskay08 View Post
I have read the Punto is great, as Fiat cars are wont to be.
===================
Though, Honda aftersales will still be expensive but compared to Fiat, not so much and certainly less hassling.
Just to add, the experience at Honda showroom (Hallmark Honda) was a whole lot superior than the Fiat/Tata showroom (Fortune Motors). Frankly, Honda Showroom inspired confidence, while Fiat did not
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Old 6th June 2012, 12:12   #144
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
Just to add, the experience at Honda showroom (Hallmark Honda) was a whole lot superior than the Fiat/Tata showroom (Fortune Motors). Frankly, Honda Showroom inspired confidence, while Fiat did not
That has always been the problem with the Tata / Fiat showrooms. Must wait and see how the Fiat exclusive showroom experience is.

Frankly, if you are ok with a petrol car, look no further that the Jazz. If not the Punto is a brilliant car.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe View Post
Maybe , but I wonder why the majority thinks that Fiat going solo is going to solve all the A$S problems. Let us not forget that when Fiat came to India, they did have their own set up, which I'm sure was worse off than today's Tata - Fiat combo.

Why did brilliant cars like the Uno/Palio/Sienna not click in our market? And if Fiat could make a difference alone, why haven't they done that till now?

None of the players who started off on a wrong foot at the A$S arena have made up ground till now as far as I can remember. Fiat, Mitsubishi, Skoda... (correct me if I'm wrong). And I really don't believe that Fiat is gonna do a better job alone, than with Tata.
True that Fiat were on their own during the Uno / Sienna days and there weren't any good things to day about that. However they also had multiple issues going on, with their Mumbai plant flodding, issues with Premier and the company's own problems in Italy which eventually led to a focus shift out of India and we saw the results.

Today I think it will work because the company is more focused, with their re-structuring and making an APAC headquarters as well. Fiat in Europe is down, but they have just made a pretty good entry back into the US, so confidence is high and lastly Sergio Marchionne is not somebody to sit back and relax. With the Chrysler acquisition Fiat can bring more diverse products into the country and they have already hinted at that.

Last edited by fiat_tarun : 6th June 2012 at 12:13.
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Old 6th June 2012, 17:41   #145
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

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Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
Today I think it will work because the company is more focused, with their re-structuring and making an APAC headquarters as well. Fiat in Europe is down, but they have just made a pretty good entry back into the US, so confidence is high and lastly Sergio Marchionne is not somebody to sit back and relax. With the Chrysler acquisition Fiat can bring more diverse products into the country and they have already hinted at that.
But how much time would you give Fiat to get its act together? At least a year...for someone buying a car now, is that not too much of a bet to take? There would be buyers who would still opt for Fiat down the line and it will be they who would spread the word of mouth. For now, I think it is too risky to opt for a Fiat car. But it is just my greenhorn view of ownership, which does discount the driving pleasure of Fiat cars.
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Old 6th June 2012, 18:30   #146
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

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Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
Why are things always so difficult? One of my friends convinced me to TD the Honda Jazz (I know its PETROL )
What does the Junta here say?
Well you already know whether you want to buy a diesel car or a petrol one. So if you go for the Jazz, no use repenting later if petrol prices go up to 100 bucks. Not saying it will happen as an eventuality though.

While they are similar in their reliability and safety features, I look at them as different cars altogether. I find the Punto a terrific car to drive and had gone to the dealer with my chequebook. But the SA at Pandit Auto in Pune while trying to sell me the car actually ended up dissuading me from buying it. Not sure how he managed it, but he did! I just did not want to end up with Pandit Auto in Pune. If I had known Fiat was going solo, I would have still taken a punt on the Punto.
The Jazz on the other hand offers a kind of ownership that I always craved for. Fill it shut it forget it type. I have no issues with the car, no niggles. It is going good at 35k. But the best it offers me is space and options. As a guy with a young family, it makes a lot of difference to me to be able to carry whatever I want without worrying if it will fit or not. Its like being able to go on a vacation to the beach without worrying about how many beachballs I can carry. Or how many changes of clothes.
And the Jazz is as good or as bad as any other hatchback in the market in terms of GC.

Now for your first post on this topic, I have to ask you:
- why do you think the Figo is a premium hatch
- did you intend to say the VW Polo instead of the Vento
- do you want to wait for the Ecosport if GC is really an issue?

All said and done, try to keep it simple. Classify cars on the type of usage you intend for it. If this is equal, then try to decide on the practical (petrol vs. diesel) aspect. Either of the above answers should help you decide.

feel free to ask further questions/ PM me or read up my ownership thread on this forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by esskay08 View Post
Though, Honda aftersales will still be expensive but compared to Fiat, not so much and certainly less hassling.
I dont think there would be much of a difference in aftersales costs. You will need to know that Fiat parts are not readily available in stock. Though this has been the case in the recent past with Honda too what with tsunamis/ floods etc.

Last edited by selfdrive : 6th June 2012 at 18:31.
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Old 6th June 2012, 19:31   #147
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Selfdrive, thanks for the detailed update. What you have stated about Jazz & Punto completely mirrors the impression I have formed.

Punto is awesome to drive and superbly built. Only negative point is questions about the A.S.S .

Jazz is something which you easily fall in love with (as indeed i have). I also have a young family and carrying stuff is important for me. Had reached my creative limits trying to fit all infant stuff in my swift .

The reason I am wavering so much is due to my monthly running. I do an average of 1200 km per month with at least one trip on Mumbai - Pune expressway thrown in. I guess that falls on the borderline for petrol/ diesel decision. And hence this major dilemma.

And yes, when i types Vento, i meant Polo
And i dont think I am willing to wait till ecosport comes in...
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Old 6th June 2012, 23:57   #148
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

A couple of posts suggested that the Jazz's GC has been increased recently from 160 mm to 165 m. Can anyone confirm this?

The latest brochure from the Honda website still shows a GC of 160 mm..

Also, has anyone managed to change / upgrade the Jazz's HU? With the OEM HU being odd-shaped, a dash kit may be required. Are such kits being sold in India?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 7th June 2012, 11:08   #149
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

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Originally Posted by qaqa View Post
A couple of posts suggested that the Jazz's GC has been increased recently from 160 mm to 165 m. Can anyone confirm this?

The latest brochure from the Honda website still shows a GC of 160 mm..

Also, has anyone managed to change / upgrade the Jazz's HU? With the OEM HU being odd-shaped, a dash kit may be required. Are such kits being sold in India?

Thanks in advance.
Hi qaqa,
Yes, the GC has been raised to 165mm. You can get related information here. I guess they've yet to update that new GC on the brochure.
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Old 7th June 2012, 11:43   #150
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
Jazz positives : Everything

Jazz Negatives : Low GC (is this an issue?) and no auto central lock. and PETROL

Punto Positives : Almost everything
Punto Negative : A.S.S. and reliability (?)


What does the Junta here say?
Overall, Jazz is definitely a much better car than the Punto, but it is not for spirited drivers. I would have picked a Jazz instead of a Punto if Honda had a diesel engine.

Secondly, resale value of the Jazz will be as good or as bad as the Punto, since it is a Petrol. with rising costs of petrol, after some years, you wont find many buyers for a petrol car.

Punto offers a lot more features than the Jazz like Blue&Me, ACC, My Car, etc. Also the stability, ride and handling is way better in Punto. But Jazz offers a much better, spacious and flexible cabin. And I feel Jazz looks better too.

Finally, maintainence costs of Jazz will be more than the Punto. Punto has a 15k interval of services and a 4 years/unlimited kms warranty and a 2 years anti-corrosion and paint warranty.

Regarding your apprehensions about the A.S.S., I always give my car to Fortune (Sakinaka) and believe me, they have been great. Infact, when I needed to contact FIAT once, I got an amazingly fast and timely response from them. I would rate the customer support of FIAT to be good, atleast for Mumbaikars.

My Punto has had no reliability issues. Yes, once a wheel bearing went kaput. That was changed under warranty. They made no issue on my aftermarket wheels. FIAT has been very proactive with respect to giving me free upgrades on my car too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
Just to add, the experience at Honda showroom (Hallmark Honda) was a whole lot superior than the Fiat/Tata showroom (Fortune Motors). Frankly, Honda Showroom inspired confidence, while Fiat did not
It seems you are really sold on the Jazz? did you check out the new i20?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
The reason I am wavering so much is due to my monthly running. I do an average of 1200 km per month with at least one trip on Mumbai - Pune expressway thrown in. I guess that falls on the borderline for petrol/ diesel decision. And hence this major dilemma.
Considering your running, I would suggest you to stay away from any petrol.
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