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Old 18th November 2012, 20:26   #241
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Originally Posted by indianvirus
Hey all,

I went to check sail today. Checked the car inside out. Couldn't test drive since their vehicle wasn't insured yet. Ample space all around. Gears were nice with short throw.
OTR cost for base model is Rs. 522372.00


Accessories include, MP3 player with 4 speakers, Mud flaps, floor mats, scuff plates, central locking with remote and reverse parking sensor

er cars.
What safety kit does it have? In today's world I would suggest at least ABS is there in any car you buy.
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Old 21st November 2012, 00:45   #242
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Opening post duly edited. (Thank you, GTO)

A request to all prospective buyers and researchers to go through it again.

All B2-segment hatchbacks have been included, along with their pricing ranges and features offered across all their respective variants, including the newest B2 segment hatchback, the Chevrolet Sail U-VA.

Also added a comparison table at the end, with the Technical Specifications comparison of all cars listed in the opening post.

Last edited by RavenAvi : 21st November 2012 at 20:47.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 09:20   #243
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Default Re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Thread moved from the Assembly Line (The "Assembly Line" Forum section) to the Hatchbacks Section. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 22nd November 2012, 16:29   #244
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Default Re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

its great you could put in the efforts to update this comparison thread. I do have a few points to raise.

- what is the criterion for the B2 segment you have used? the reason I ask is I see the Liva but there is no Vista. the Brio is included but the Beat is left out. Perhaps if/ when the missing ones are included this will show a complete overall picture
- in the technical specs excel sheet diesel cars are listed under different/ other petrol cars in the same column. now this is taking nitpicking to a new but perhaps you can list all cars first that have petrol and diesel variants. then list all those that have petrol only variants.
- it would be great if you could include OTR prices too. I for one was shocked to find that the beat diesel costs 7.2L OTR in Pune. with the price filter on, it may help some to decide before planning showroom visits.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 16:53   #245
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its great you could put in the efforts to update this comparison thread. I do have a few points to raise.

- what is the criterion for the B2 segment you have used? the reason I ask is I see the Liva but there is no Vista. the Brio is included but the Beat is left out. Perhaps if/ when the missing ones are included this will show a complete overall picture.
Team-BHP's official monthly analysis threads is the basis for B2-segmentation. The Vista & the Beat come under the B1 segment, together with the WagonR, Indica eV2, Santro, Estilo & the A-Star.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...s-figures.html (October 2012 : Indian Car Sales Figures)



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- in the technical specs excel sheet diesel cars are listed under different/ other petrol cars in the same column. now this is taking nitpicking to a new but perhaps you can list all cars first that have petrol and diesel variants. then list all those that have petrol only variants.
The technical specs listing was done in the order the cars were listed in the post. It's more convenient to check the specs that way.

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- it would be great if you could include OTR prices too. I for one was shocked to find that the beat diesel costs 7.2L OTR in Pune. with the price filter on, it may help some to decide before planning showroom visits.
OTR prices include Road Tax registration charges, which vary from state to state. Our state has 7%, Andhra Pradesh has 12%, etc. Listing OTR prices for all states in India would make the whole thing too messy, plus I have little idea of RT %age charges of all Indian states. Hence I stuck with ex-showroom Delhi pricings.


Btw, I included your views on several B2-segment cars in the opening post as well, along with a note of thanks.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 12:37   #246
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Team-BHP's official monthly analysis threads is the basis for B2-segmentation. The Vista & the Beat come under the B1 segment, together with the WagonR, Indica eV2, Santro, Estilo & the A-Star.
The technical specs listing was done in the order the cars were listed in the post. It's more convenient to check the specs that way.
Well, then I am not sure why or how the i10 or Brio is included as a B2 hatch. There must be some logic to it, cannot only be price can it?

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Btw, I included your views on several B2-segment cars in the opening post as well, along with a note of thanks.
Thanks, I was just lazy to go through the text of your entire post on my phone so thought it would be easier to understand that diesels are not available for, say the i10 and Jazz when you see a blank column beneath their petrol versions. Which is why I said I am taking nitpicking to a different (perhaps unnecessary) level
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Old 23rd November 2012, 13:13   #247
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Default Re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Please note that the Refresh 2012 version of Polo now has ABS, Music system with USB/AUX, Rear parking sensors, EORVM's, Rear washer/defogger, 15-inch alloy wheels, leather wrapped steering and gearshift, multifunction steering wheel and even a Bluetooth headset add-on. At least it does on the Highline model.

With this I guess it brings the Polo in line with the other cars in terms of feature set.
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Old 25th November 2012, 00:48   #248
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Default Ergonomics!

Mods - please remove this post. Posted a duplicate in error

Last edited by qaqa : 25th November 2012 at 00:52.
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Old 25th November 2012, 00:51   #249
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One day of test drives has narrowed down my premium hatch quest considerably. Strangely, I faced ergonomic issues serious enough to knock a couple of (seeming) winners off the table.

1. Swift - My left shin keeps banging / rubbing against a plastic panel below the steering wheel, each time I lift my foot to step on the clutch. It looks like the panel has a badly designed protrusion which is causing this issue. I tried all driving positions, but the problem persists. When I asked the sales guy about this, he said I was the first customer he has heard of who is facing this issue! Anyway, this was serious enough to knock Swift off the list :(

2. Sail Petrol -There is no place at all to rest your clutch foot. You will have to rest your foot under the pedal each time. This, and the excessively raised pedals led to a very uncomfortable driving experience. Knocked this off my list.

Of my shortlist, that only leaves the Jazz standing. No, I don't really need all that room. But it's the most decent petrol car of my shortlist.
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Old 26th November 2012, 09:13   #250
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Originally Posted by qaqa View Post
One day of test drives has narrowed down my premium hatch quest considerably. Strangely, I faced ergonomic issues serious enough to knock a couple of (seeming) winners off the table.

1. Swift - My left shin keeps banging / rubbing against a plastic panel below the steering wheel, each time I lift my foot to step on the clutch. It looks like the panel has a badly designed protrusion which is causing this issue. I tried all driving positions, but the problem persists. When I asked the sales guy about this, he said I was the first customer he has heard of who is facing this issue! Anyway, this was serious enough to knock Swift off the list :(

2. Sail Petrol -There is no place at all to rest your clutch foot. You will have to rest your foot under the pedal each time. This, and the excessively raised pedals led to a very uncomfortable driving experience. Knocked this off my list.

Of my shortlist, that only leaves the Jazz standing. No, I don't really need all that room. But it's the most decent petrol car of my shortlist.
qaqa, what are your needs ? Are you going to be using it mostly for city rides (traffic), or city+some highway? It appears that clutch usage appears to be your primary concern, and the main reason you've rejected both the Swift and the Sail. So, I'm guessing it is for city usage? Why not look for a CNG/diesel option if that's the case. If petrol is the way you want to go, Jazz is a good option - you get a LOT of space (in case you need it) and the mileage isn't that far off the swift either. Low-end torque may be a slight concern in stop-go traffic, but there's no real discomfort for the driver, if you get what I mean.

Last edited by CowlFlap : 26th November 2012 at 09:15.
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Old 26th November 2012, 10:15   #251
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qaqa, what are your needs ? Are you going to be using it mostly for city rides (traffic), or city+some highway? It appears that clutch usage appears to be your primary concern, and the main reason you've rejected both the Swift and the Sail. So, I'm guessing it is for city usage? Why not look for a CNG/diesel option if that's the case. If petrol is the way you want to go, Jazz is a good option - you get a LOT of space (in case you need it) and the mileage isn't that far off the swift either. Low-end torque may be a slight concern in stop-go traffic, but there's no real discomfort for the driver, if you get what I mean.
I'm going to use it primarily in the city. It will be used in medium to heavy traffic during weekdays. Once in 2 weeks, I will be doing a 300 km drive on a congested highway. Hence my apprehension with the sail's clutch.

As far as the swift is concerned, my shin hits the plastic panel's edge so much, it actually gets a little painful..

Now I really dont need the Jazzs space (although it's certainly good to have ) . Im only looking for a hatch with ABS+airbags, with a 7L budget. Im neutral between petrol and diesel.
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Old 27th November 2012, 02:02   #252
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Default Re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

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I'm going to use it primarily in the city. It will be used in medium to heavy traffic during weekdays. Once in 2 weeks, I will be doing a 300 km drive on a congested highway. Now I really dont need the Jazzs space (although it's certainly good to have ) . Im only looking for a hatch with ABS+airbags, with a 7L budget. Im neutral between petrol and diesel.
If its petrol, i suggest you to stick to the Jazz. But, you have to bear with the stiff ride though. And most importantly, the low-end torque. You may have to constantly shift gears from second to 1st, but that said, i really like its soft - clutch a lot. If you're moving to other hatches, i suggest you to look for diesels rather than petrols.
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Old 27th November 2012, 20:23   #253
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If its petrol, i suggest you to stick to the Jazz. But, you have to bear with the stiff ride though. And most importantly, the low-end torque. You may have to constantly shift gears from second to 1st, but that said, i really like its soft - clutch a lot. If you're moving to other hatches, i suggest you to look for diesels rather than petrols.
+1^. Though I don't agree with having to shift down to 1st all of the time. Ofcourse it depends on the traffic too, but if you're contesting with congested highways, as stated by qaqa, 2nd may be adequate; heck even 3rd is good at 20kms/hr. Diesel may still be a better bet qaqa.
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Old 28th November 2012, 18:03   #254
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+1^. Though I don't agree with having to shift down to 1st all of the time. Ofcourse it depends on the traffic too, but if you're contesting with congested highways, as stated by qaqa, 2nd may be adequate; heck even 3rd is good at 20kms/hr. Diesel may still be a better bet qaqa.
Well, the highway (B'lore-Mysore) is not all that congested - the traffic is such that you will constantly need to slow down and speed-up.

My overall monthly running is not likely to exceed 1000km, quite close to the "diesel threshold". The high initial cost of a diesel car is proving to be a dampner. I'm keen on a car with full safety kit, and these tend to be quite expensive - the i20 Asta (a car I really liked) for instance retails at 9.2L OTR. Mentally, I cannot convince myself to spend 9L+ for a hatch!

Swift Zdi was eliminated because of lousy ergonomics (the shin rubbing issue mentioned in the official review as well).

The one diesel which is within reach is the Figo. While the car is fundamentally good, I hated the "face lift" and the interiors.
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Old 28th November 2012, 18:34   #255
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Well, the highway (B'lore-Mysore) is not all that congested - the traffic is such that you will constantly need to slow down and speed-up.

Swift Zdi was eliminated because of lousy ergonomics (the shin rubbing issue mentioned in the official review as well).

The one diesel which is within reach is the Figo. While the car is fundamentally good, I hated the "face lift" and the interiors.
The Jazz sounds like the perfect car for you, that is if you're open to petrol cars. With just under 1000 km of monthly running, I'd still advocate a diesel car. The future of the Jazz is questionable though.

Cars like the Swift and Sail are just 'okay' in terms of interior ergonomics. In fact, I find the Sail to be pretty good. My biggest grouse with it is the awkward positioning of the pedals. They're placed way too high off the floor and will require you to really 'lift' you foot high in order to operate the clutch pedal. To make matters worse, there is no dead pedal and nearly no place to rest your foot beside the clutch either. The Jazz does not have a dead-pedal but thankfully, there is quite a lot of room next to the clutch.
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