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Old 27th January 2013, 11:42   #286
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Default Re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Yes Jazz is a really good option. Even i20 is good. Jazz X comes with 15 inch one as well. But I think there is not Blue Tooth.

To summarize, both are equally good, but given an option I would go with Jazz. The 2012 models I am told also came with
stiffer suspensions. So hopefully that trend should continue in 2013.
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Old 27th January 2013, 14:43   #287
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Default Re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Hi,
Looks like my thread got merged into this one, but the poll is gone
Anyways, based on posts i can see that Jazz has a slight lead over i20, while Punto is nowhere (strange but not surprised as in Petrol it is not a brand to have the perfectly tuned engine)

I am not a Big fan (No offense to Brio owners) of Brio, it looks too small even from outside and the rear glass is not to my liking

I can understand that nothing could beat a Jazz in its engine (i-Vtec) but i do feel that for the price Honda is demanding for the car, it is not really offering value

As someone said, for the price of Jazz X, i get i20 Asta (O) with 6 airbags and Sunroof, though let me be frank - i am not a supporter for sunroof in such small hatchbacks, but then i20 will also have speed sensing auto door locks (not sure if programmable for user defined speed or is it default at 40 kmph)
Jazz is missing Auto AC; never mind but the Jazz Select which is almost similar in pricing to Asta does not have front fogs, mirror auto retract or even seat height adjust
This feels so unacceptable, i mean i dont mind not having a sporty rear spoiler or alloy design, but above are the not there in a 7 lac car
I did not particularly mention about the storage as my car usually has only the following
1. 1L distilled water bottle (tucked away in boot)
2. Car Jack and Car breakdown Signage (in the boot)
3. Car papers (in glovebox)
4. Sunglasses and wallet (armrest - aftermarket)
5. Medical kit (Front left door pocket)
6. Air freshner (apart from ambi pur) - rear seat pocket
7. Car cleaning cloth - driver side door pocket

As you can see, i dont carry my world in my car and also when someone has to drop me to the airport, if car has 60-40 split seats that is sufficient coz i will have atmost 3 bags, one for check in, one for carry-in and a laptop bag
even without the 60-40 and a relatively smaller boot my current car swift is capable of handling this luggage

Now Punto also offers a tank like build and widest tires and decent alloys, though experts can confirm if the Blue and Me really works as well as they advertise because i have seen more folks complaining about it rather than praising it
IMHO Punto is the best looking hatch and my order of precedence for looks is Punto > Jazz > i20

Hope my clarifications on my requirements are helpful
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Old 27th January 2013, 22:33   #288
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Default Re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

So.. Punto is the best *driver's car* in the 3 shortlisted, but it doesn't have power folding mirrors.

Jazz has power folding mirrors, good fuel economy, good features, but no bluetooth.

i20 has all the required features, but its not as engaging to drive as the other 2.

So.. buy either Jazz or the Punto.. and get the missing item as an aftermarket fitment (whichever is possible).

Any specific reason for not considering Chevy Sail-UVA? Interiors?
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Old 27th January 2013, 23:24   #289
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Default Re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
Jazz has power folding mirrors, good fuel economy, good features, but no bluetooth.
That's interesting. Since when was the Jazz equipped with power-folding ORVMs? It's something we'd have loved, considering that our parking spot at home is rather tight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
i20 has all the required features, but its not as engaging to drive as the other 2.
The Jazz is not engaging to drive at all. Poor bottom-end torque, super light steering and a notchy 'box is a recipe that you'd not have an appetite for if you're an enthusiastic driver. It's as boring to drive as the i20, if not more. In fact, the i20's gearbox is a pleasure to use where as the Jazz's 'box is rather annoying.

The 1.2 iVtec is a good mill, but it does a much better job in the Brio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
Any specific reason for not considering Chevy Sail-UVA?
Good point.
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Old 28th January 2013, 00:36   #290
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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
That's interesting. Since when was the Jazz equipped with power-folding ORVMs?
Since the facelift (2011). Jazz X is the only variant that gets it.

Click 'Convenience': http://www.hondacarindia.com/jazz2011/features.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
The Jazz is not engaging to drive at all. Poor bottom-end torque, super light steering and a notchy 'box is a recipe that you'd not have an appetite for if you're an enthusiastic driver. It's as boring to drive as the i20, if not more. In fact, the i20's gearbox is a pleasure to use where as the Jazz's 'box is rather annoying.

The 1.2 iVtec is a good mill, but it does a much better job in the Brio.
Actually I wouldn't know, I have never driven a Jazz. I have TDed Brio and liked it quite a bit because it felt, to me, like a go-cart. Small size, good shifts, zippy engine.. perfect recipe for some fun in the urban space.

The following lines:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO in the i20 official review
• Underpowered 1.2L petrol engine. Offers mediocre performance on the expressway
• Light, vague & sensitive steering at speed
• Highway dynamics are unfitting of a premium hatchback
• The Swift, Brio & Jazz feel distinctly sprightlier on the highway.
and these
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO in the Jazz official review
• Fuel efficient, revv happy engine
• Light & easy to drive. An excellent city car
• The Jazz superior power to weight shows (84 BHP / Tonne versus 74 for the i20) in its performance.
• Below a 120 kph, the Jazz doesn’t feel under-powered at all.
Helped form my opinion.
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Old 28th January 2013, 01:10   #291
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Default Re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
Since the facelift (2011). Jazz X is the only variant that gets it.

Click 'Convenience': http://www.hondacarindia.com/jazz2011/features.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
I have TDed Brio and liked it quite a bit because it felt, to me, like a go-cart. Small size, good shifts, zippy engine.. perfect recipe for some fun in the urban space.
Your views are pretty much spot-on!

Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
The following lines:

Helped form my opinion.
You've got to read between the lines here.

The Jazz is fun once you dial in the revs. The engine is pretty sweet. The highway / expressway is one place where you can stretch her legs and that's when the iVtec mill comes into its own. In regular city-driving and the urban-crawl, the lack of bottom-end torque makes it painful. Or maybe I've been driving my Santro too much off late *grins*

There is a noticeable lag in power / torque delivery and to make matters worse, the throttle response is mediocre. And once you get the car to shift in the city, you are required to slow down courtesy the traffic.

The ride / handling package is average and the light steering doesn't weigh up and can feel vague at high speeds.

It is a ridiculously easy car to drive though. The light steering is one of the reasons for that.

For the average Joe, it would be difficult to separate the Jazz and i20 in terms of dynamics. Up to three-digit speeds, it's difficult to separate them.
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Old 28th January 2013, 08:23   #292
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Default Re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shridhar.s.i View Post
Anyways, based on posts i can see that Jazz has a slight lead over i20, while Punto is nowhere (strange but not surprised as in Petrol it is not a brand to have the perfectly tuned engine)


Now Punto also offers a tank like build and widest tires and decent alloys, though experts can confirm if the Blue and Me really works as well as they advertise because i have seen more folks complaining about it rather than praising it
IMHO Punto is the best looking hatch and my order of precedence for looks is Punto > Jazz > i20
I don’t know much about the Punto 1.4, but between the other two, my vote goes to the Jazz. When I was in India a few weeks back, got to spend time in my neighbour’s i20 (as a passenger). The interiors looked quite premium for the segment (I liked it more than the bigger Verna). On the negative, the car did not give a sense of space for me. That’s where the Jazz excels – the car feels extremely spacious and airy inside. I will rate it better than the City. And this is one Honda which feels a bit more European than Japanese. On the negative, it’s kind of a neglected child from the Honda India stable.

There are rumours going around on the launch of Polo 1.2 TSI in India. If it happens soon, that probably will be the best choice of Petrol hatchback in India.
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Old 28th January 2013, 10:01   #293
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Default Re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shridhar.s.i View Post

Now Punto also offers a tank like build and widest tires and decent alloys, though experts can confirm if the Blue and Me really works as well as they advertise because i have seen more folks complaining about it rather than praising it
IMHO Punto is the best looking hatch and my order of precedence for looks is Punto > Jazz > i20
The Punto's 1.4 FIRE engine is underrated. I agree it does not zoom off, but the linear power delivery is good. Also, amongst the 3 that you have shortlisted, Punto is the most VFM. I don't think electrically powered OVRM's should be a deal breaker. The ones in the Punto are manual ORVMs but they fold both sides to avoid damage in case of an impact from a mosquito biker.

I am no expert, but in my case, the Blue and Me is working like a charm.

Why I say Punto is the most VFM amongst the 3? Following are the goodies that you get for what you pay:

1) ABS, EBD and Airbags
2) Widest tyres in it's category
3) Blue and Me
4) ACC
5) Leather wrapped steering and gear knob
6) Auto door lock once you cross 20kmph
7) 3-Point ELR Seat Belts with Pretensioners & Load Limiters

etc. etc....

So Shridhar, weigh your priorities and then decide .
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Old 28th January 2013, 10:08   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shridhar.s.i View Post
Folks,

2 years back i was here asking suggestions on what hatchback to buy, had a roller coaster ride in choosing one and in process i even managed to drive a few fellow BHP'ians crazy, after all i had booked a Wagon R , then went for allotment confirmation and ended up cancelling it to book a Swift Lxi (A decision i do not regret one bit)

So now with my Dark Angel completing 2 years, i am again in the market looking for a Hatchback to replace our Ageing TATA Estate

Reasons for a second hatch
Pune Traffic: We live in Pune which experiences mind boggling vehicle traffic
Parking: My office parking is a hell hole as most parking turns are narrow and of course no space to do a 3 point turn and similarly these Malls and city roads barely provide any decent parking space

Planned Budget: 7- 7.5 Lacs
Body Style: Hatchback
Fuel: PETROL

Driving the swift base model over couple of years has made me understand what i really need in a car
1. Power Windows, preferably auto down (anti pinch is a welcome with this feature)
2. Power Closing Mirrors - Must have for those tight parking spots
3. Plush Interiors - We spend most of the time inside the car and hence no compromise here
4. Steering height adjustment - I am a fat guy and hence getting the right driving position is important and difficult
5. ABS (Never felt the need yet but in rainy season it could be the differentiating factor)
6. Good Service Network
7. Bluetooth Connectivity and Music Controls on Steering -
I get a lot of conference calls and hence even to pickup and say that "I am driving" becomes difficult, currently i use a bluetooth headset but not a very comfortable thing and if i have to attend an urgent call, i can take the car to the left and attend it handsfree
I am choosy about what i hear and hence ability to move through folders easily is important and music volume controls as well
8. Dead pedal - Every car needs one
9. Rear Wash and wipe - In city driving in rainy conditions this becomes inevitable to ensure there is good rear visibility
10. Decent AC - I prefer Auto AC feature, i drive with 50% AC usually
11. Comfortable seating for 4 - below is my usual split up of occupants
Single Person Driving (Me or My dad) - 90% of the time
2 people - 7 % (Me and someone else)
3 people - 2.5 % (Yup, my family does not prefer cars for long drives , hope i get all your sympathy - a petrol head with a family that has zero enthusiasm for cars)
4 / 5 people - Though i can count this on my fingers as this is a very rare occassion but still i give it a 0.5% because usually if there are more than 4 occupants we take the second car as well

I did not bother looking at B1 and segments below as they do not meet all my needs,
From B2 segment i have shortlisted 3 cars
1. Punto 1.4
2. Hyundai i20 1.2L iGen
3. Honda Jazz X

So let the thoughts pour in and here is the disclaimer that i am not responsible if i drive you mad with my stupid questions and sudden change of mind

Thanks for reading
The Jazz is a brilliant car, and the X variant us feature rich too (has everything you need except auto ac). The only point you will have you be mindful of is the risk of the model being discontinued. I've heard rumours from various quarters (dealers included) that production may cease by April 13.of course, such rumours have been heard before, so you can never be sure.
Now jazz has sold poorly through most of its life, and there aren't too many examples on the road. If production stops, it may not be viable to produce spares locally which might drive up prices in the medium term. Of course, part sharing with brio and city does help.

Why don't you wait for the ecosport? You might have to stretch your budget a bit, but it seems like it will be worth it. Also, why not consider the new swift? The Zxi trim is quite good.

Last edited by qaqa : 28th January 2013 at 10:18.
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Old 28th January 2013, 10:43   #295
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Default Re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shridhar.s.i View Post
Hi,
Looks like my thread got merged into this one, but the poll is gone
Anyways, based on posts i can see that Jazz has a slight lead over i20, while Punto is nowhere (strange but not surprised as in Petrol it is not a brand to have the perfectly tuned engine)

.
.
.
How soon are you looking to buy a car ? I'd suggest you hang on till March since the Polo Tsi and Punto refresh are expected to launch then. Like I said earlier, right now the Jazz makes most sense, but Honda seems to be treating this wonderful car like their step child and the fear that they might stop it all together keeps cropping up.

Based on your test drives, which car did u enjoy the most, or rather which one did you see ticking all the boxes ?
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Old 28th January 2013, 11:34   #296
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Shridhar,

You're requirements suggest that you'd be happy with the Hyundai i20. It's loaded with equipment and the goodies will keep you happy. The Jazz has a lot going for it, i.e. superb engine, refinement, space and practicality. But the Jazz isn't for you. Reasons:

- It's not particularly loaded with equipment and isn't VFM when you pit it against the likes of the i20.

- Its USP is that it's pretty spacious and versatile. Two things that don't concern you. So why bother?

- The Jazz might be phased out altogether. I'm sure you wouldn't want to be driving a car that isn't available in the market.

- If you're worried about the depreciation, the Jazz will increase the number of wrinkles on your forehead.

While the Jazz is a supremely capable product and is VFM in its own way, it isn't your kind of car. I'd suggest you buy the i20.

Do consider the Brio too. It may not have rear windshield wash/wipe or bluetooth, or even auto-fold ORVMs, but you might appreciate the dimensions. It's a fun car to drive and offers brilliant all-round visibility. It's easy to park and will seat 4 people in reasonable comfort. You can expect good fuel-economy too, given that it's powered by the same 1.2l mill in the Jazz and is a good 150 kgs lighter.

The Punto 1.4 is a good car, and it's powered by a decent workhorse petrol mill. It's ride-handling package is frankly exemplary. But the engine feels strained and isn't particularly efficient given that it needs to haul quite a mass. The Punto is a heavy car and you do feel it. It isn't chuck-able either. My lawyer drives a Punto 90 and he is not impressed with the Blue & Me feature. He bought the top-end variant hoping that he could make use of this feature but he regrets it now. Syncing my old Nokia N97 via the Blue & Me was a pain where-the-sun-don't-shine.

If you can wait, I suggest you hold on. There are some exciting products on the way. Namely the Polo 1.2 TSI and if you can stretch your budget, the EcoSport will be a viable option.
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Old 28th January 2013, 11:47   #297
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Default Re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shridhar.s.i View Post
Now Punto also offers a tank like build and widest tires and decent alloys, though experts can confirm if the Blue and Me really works as well as they advertise because i have seen more folks complaining about it rather than praising it
IMHO Punto is the best looking hatch and my order of precedence for looks is Punto > Jazz > i20
Folks will usually complain about it here only when it fails to work , hence the tendency to feel that way. Jokes apart, there is nothing gizmo-ish about the Blue&Me to have a high failure rate, and it does work well with iOS, Android, Symbian, Windows and any other smartphone you can think of. Some of the older versions of B&M were a bit troublesome, and most of those niggles have been ironed out in latest versions.

Simply put it is a bluetooth handsfree unit which is integrated to work in tandem with your audio system menu and steering controls. Most of your phone-handling tasks like syncing contacts, making/receiving calls and message reader functionalities work like a charm and it shouldn't be a dealbreaker or maker. You can always do a DIY software version upgrade if you face issues, if ever you do. It just requires a package downloaded on the same USB you plug into the car, and installation from there (there is an option within B&M menu for this as well).

Perhaps the only nagging irritant of the Blue&Me is inability to recognize certain words (voice commands) pronounced in Indian accents. The bypass for this is to use the menu interface via the steering control buttons.

Last edited by KarthikK : 28th January 2013 at 11:49.
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Old 28th January 2013, 12:02   #298
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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
In regular city-driving and the urban-crawl, the lack of bottom-end torque makes it painful. Or maybe I've been driving my Santro too much off late *grins*
No offence meant, but have you been driving a gear or two lower than you should? I find the Jazz very convenient to potter about in town. The only place I would miss the torque is if I am trying to overtake someone. I dont usually get the opportunity for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
For the average Joe, it would be difficult to separate the Jazz and i20 in terms of dynamics. Up to three-digit speeds, it's difficult to separate them.
Its actually very easy, at least I think it is. I steer the Jazz, it does what I want it to do. I steer the i20, it does what it wants to do.
That only goes to say that I am below average as a Joe, may have to find another name for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by shridhar.s.i View Post
As someone said, for the price of Jazz X, i get i20 Asta (O) with 6 airbags and Sunroof, though let me be frank - i am not a supporter for sunroof in such small hatchbacks, but then i20 will also have speed sensing auto door locks (not sure if programmable for user defined speed or is it default at 40 kmph)
Are you sure about the 6 airbags and sunroof? I thought these were discontinued a couple of years ago. To be honest, if there is anything like a negative vote, I offer a strong one for the i20. I am not saying you buy the Jazz or the Punto, all I am saying is dont buy the i20.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shridhar.s.i View Post
Hope my clarifications on my requirements are helpful
I am happy to keep repeating that based on your real requirements you are still looking at the wrong type of car. You will end up with two hatchbacks and then wonder why you didnt listen to the guy who said this (who by the way has two hatchbacks!)

Dont do it, just go for a sedan or a SUV. or even a softroader. Two years down the line, you wont consider replacing one of your hatchbacks.

Last edited by selfdrive : 28th January 2013 at 12:03. Reason: typo
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Old 28th January 2013, 12:04   #299
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Default Re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

I own a Punto and one of my close friends owns an i20 Asta 1.2, so I'll give a point-by-point comparo from my perspective on your requirements, and show which one is better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shridhar.s.i View Post
Planned Budget: 7- 7.5 Lacs
Body Style: Hatchback
Fuel: PETROL

Driving the swift base model over couple of years has made me understand what i really need in a car
Quote:
2. Power Closing Mirrors - Must have for those tight parking spots
i20 > Punto

Quote:
3. Plush Interiors - We spend most of the time inside the car and hence no compromise here
i20 > Punto for better quality, Punto > i20 for driver cockpit space and ergonomics if you are tall

Quote:
4. Steering height adjustment - I am a fat guy and hence getting the right driving position is important and difficult
Punto = i20

Quote:
5. ABS (Never felt the need yet but in rainy season it could be the differentiating factor)
Punto = i20

Quote:
6. Good Service Network
i20 > Punto in terms of service network strength and capability, Punto > i20 (better) in terms of cost of maintenance. Spares are cheaper

Quote:
7. Bluetooth Connectivity and Music Controls on Steering -
Punto = i20
Quote:
9. Rear Wash and wipe - In city driving in rainy conditions this becomes inevitable to ensure there is good rear visibility
Punto = i20

Quote:
10. Decent AC - I prefer Auto AC feature, i drive with 50% AC usually
Punto > i20 in cooling power

Quote:
11. Comfortable seating for 4 - below is my usual split up of occupants
Single Person Driving (Me or My dad) - 90% of the time
Punto > i20 for solo driver / 2 people; i20 > Punto for more than 2 occupants

Both cars score in some specific areas, so you'll have to now prioritize on which requirements are more important for you than the others. The Punto 1.4 Emotion is definitely peppier than the Jazz and i20 1.2 petrols, both on paper and on the road. The Punto and the Jazz are very pleasurable in the higher revs and might seem sluggish lower down. The i20 will be the overall better scoring car in other departments like ease of servicing, better interior quality, more gizmos and ease of driving within the city. If you want a driver's car with more emphasis on handling, ride quality, minimum body roll, steering feedback, etc, get the Punto. If you want a practical, easy commuter which any other family member may also drive and appreciate (for gizmos/interiors), get the i20 or Jazz.

P.S - if you can't wait for new launches, I go with suhaas' decision - go for the i20. It seems to match most of your requirements well.

Last edited by KarthikK : 28th January 2013 at 12:34.
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Old 28th January 2013, 14:25   #300
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Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
No offence meant, but have you been driving a gear or two lower than you should? I find the Jazz very convenient to potter about in town. The only place I would miss the torque is if I am trying to overtake someone. I dont usually get the opportunity for that.
None taken.

Do you mean driving in a gear or two higher higher?

It is very easy to drive the Jazz there's no doubt about that. The problem with it is that it's missing immediacy in throttle response and low-down torque. And even this is fine so to speak. It takes getting used to and once you've understood the characteristics of the engine and the way it delivers its power / torque, you can get a move on without really wringing the motor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
Its actually very easy, at least I think it is. I steer the Jazz, it does what I want it to do. I steer the i20, it does what it wants to do.
That only goes to say that I am below average as a Joe, may have to find another name for me
Exactly.

While the steering in both cars are light, the i20 isn't precise like the Jazz. The steering is fairly accurate in the Honda but not so much in the Hyundai. That's true. But what I was talking about was the dynamic-ability of the two cars. You don't really get to see the difference unless you try them at triple-digit speeds. That's when the Jazz feels more planted and stable than the i20.
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