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Old 23rd August 2011, 11:50   #46
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

IMO the best premium hatch has to be ANSS, because of the following reasons:
1. It's got a diesel mill
2. It's a competent handler
3. It's got the best A.S.S. (common, cost, capability)
4. It's priced reasonably well as compared to few others in the list
5. It's engines got sufficient grunt for Indian condition
6. It's got the best resale value

I bet someone would few more points here, but, I feel these are enough for me to suggest ANSS to anyone.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 11:54   #47
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

In the premium hatches I have narrowed down are Jazz X variant and the Polo1.6. Both cars being evenly posied in features and have to take a call by this weekend.

On OTR price front (Bangalore)

Honda Jazz 742,740 ( no discounts)
Polo 1.6 750,992 (free insurance, corporate discount,extended
warranty)

Jazz delivery time is 8 weeks and the Polo 1.6 is readily available! ( not a criteria though !)

Its a real close call, any pointers to this?

Cheers!

Last edited by volkman10 : 23rd August 2011 at 12:10.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 12:08   #48
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

My definition of a premium hatch would be the following; (in no particular order)
  • Large & decently spacious
  • Should give you a big car feel
  • Good equipment level (safety included)
  • Decently powerful engines
  • Good Dynamics
  • Good interiors
  • Good footwear (wider tyres)

The other factors like A.S.S, maintenance etc are supporting points and in no way make a hatchback premium.

Going by the above points my list would be; (all in their top variants)
  1. Hyundai i20
  2. Honda Jazz
  3. Fiat Punto
  4. VW Polo
  5. New Swift
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Old 23rd August 2011, 12:19   #49
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post

This thread can serve as a guide for all present and future prospective buyers who are looking for a sound option to spend their well-earned rupees on.

I am sorry RavenAvi, but I do not get the intention of this thread, are you just listing down all the cars available.
Or are you making a comparison of cars (in that case we need to have ratings attached)
Or are you just making the good and bads list of cars (in that case you could have taken it from Official reviews list)
Or are you just giving your opinion about the cars.

If there is no details on comparison between them, then this not to be termed as shoot out. The discussion in this thread are only going about whats premium and whats not. Which I am sure was not your intent of starting the thread
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Old 23rd August 2011, 14:09   #50
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Kudos to the team that put this information out! Really appreciated.

Now the sour grapes: I am sorry but if I may, the word 'premium' is being thrown around a bit loosely here. Tata Vista, Toyota Liva? Really !!

That word co-relates closely with the BMWs and the Mercs of the world. We all know brands like Nissan, Ford, Skoda, Suzuki are 'regular' brands across the world. So it is unfair to the word to be associated with these cars, least of all with these brands.

You call them B to B+ hatchbacks and I will be perfectly happy with it. In fact, there have been a lot many times regular brands are written about in 'premium' terms. Alas! In terms of someone above saying that the tag points to the features a given car offers, but I disagree. It is the need of the hour for 'regulars' to offer 'premium' features - still doesn't make them premium! As suyog307 points out, the premium hatches are not sold in India as yet!
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Old 23rd August 2011, 16:38   #51
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Premium Hatch?
IMO the list should have all hatchbacks which makes you feel like you are in a sedan and includes all features that a segment above costly sedan would have. And also 'premium' looks.

Having said that I would rule out all 3-potters, petrol or diesel, as 3-potter is no premium but economy.

So my list would be
  • Jazz
  • i20
  • Grande Punto
  • Polo 1.6
  • Fabia 1.6
  • New Swift
All these are 'good' looking IMO.

While Vista looses on brand image + quality, Figo does not even have basic feature like rear power windows!! Micra diesel does not have premium features like ABS & Front passenger Airbag. Not even to top variant!

i10, Ritz & Beat they are hatchbacks with good features that's all!!
Toyota Liva? does anyone dare to call it premium? IMO its not.

And by the way why Punto's back seat is included in -ves?

Last edited by HammerHead : 23rd August 2011 at 16:40.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 18:14   #52
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

My 2 paisa vote
if its a petrol to the Jazz
If its a diesel, its a close call between the Fabia and the Punto. Here Punto would be the winner if it had better interiors.

If there is a negative vote at all, it goes to the i20. steering issues, handling, et al

IMHO, the i10 would be premium depending on the requirements. If you want to seat more than 2, I dont think it is premium. I have been a passenger in the rear in an i10 on a long drive and it wasnt much better than any other car for that matter. On second thoughts this is also applicable notably to the Swift

In terms of snob value, I dont think the Figo, Liva or Vista are considered as premium hatches, NOM. Just that their perception is more VFM.

Last edited by selfdrive : 23rd August 2011 at 18:16.
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Old 24th August 2011, 18:42   #53
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
The 1.4 Petrol Punto should also be added here (since we are talking premium hatches). This car is very capable and is immense fun to drive with its sporty engine note. Its got a weak low end similar to the Jazz, but past 2k rpm the 90 horses definitely do their work well.
I admit. It is one hell of a car. It might not be as fast as the swift but is way more satisfying to drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nurni76 View Post
You bet. Jazz has very poor GC especially for Bangalore Roads. With 5 onboard even the smallest humps will cause pains to the owner. This is a big minus for Jazz
It is not only the GC that matters. The jazz has stiff suspensions and hence it is not as bad as it looks on paper. The low GC/CG along with the stiff suspension do aid in handling making it one of the better cars to drive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickxx2006 View Post
Can you help me understand about mileage being negative point for Punto?
Are you talking for Petrol or Diesel?
Petrol (mainly) & diesel both have lower mileage than its competitors in real world. The overweight kid needs to shed some weight.
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Old 24th August 2011, 18:52   #54
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
So many choices available in the 4L to 8L bracket today, and which one to go for?

Nissan Micra - (4.1L to 6.14L)

Attachment 597606

(+) diesel engine, Start/Stop button, handling, driver's car, riding comfort, mileage, features, fit and finish.
(-) petrol engine, looks, interior space, head room, boot, Nissan's A.S.S.
Official Review - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ve-review.html (Nissan Micra : Test Drive & Review)


Toyota Etios Liva - (3.99L to 5.99L)

Attachment 597607

(+) Sporty steering, interior space, boot, rear bench, mileage, driveability, riding comfort, Toyota badge.
(-) Plastics quality, looks, fit and finish, lackluster engine, features, cabin insulation.
Official Review - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ve-review.html (Toyota Liva : Test Drive & Review)


Hyundai i10 1.2 Kappa - (4.2L to 5.99L)*

Attachment 597608

(+) Driveability, fit and finish, handling, VTVT's performance, Hyundai's A.S.S., head room, cabin insulation.
(-) Interior space, boot, features, high-end grunt, road manners, steering, no diesel option.
Official Review - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ve-review.html (Hyundai i10 Kappa2 : Test Drive & Review)

* - Added just for the best in class fit and finish, and so can be considered a premium hatch in it's own segment.



Comments and feedback are most welcome.
Good efforts, RavenAvi. However, in respect of Nissan Micra, I differ. True it looks small but when you step inside, the space surprised me as much as Ford Figo. I definitely would not consider it as a negative point.
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Old 24th August 2011, 19:30   #55
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Quote:
Originally Posted by aryasanyal View Post
Is the Beetle a hatchback?
It surely has all attributes of a hatch + high on premium. However it is not listed here because the eligible criteria for this thread is 4L to 8L bracket.
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Old 24th August 2011, 22:42   #56
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Cool re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

I would not really consider the Figo as a premium car, as it is vfm - easily seen from the lack of rear power windows, tilt steering and automatic climate control on titanium. However, it is definitely a strong contender for people looking to buy diesel top variants, as it has great handling (hydraulic power steering, low slung design to eliminate body roll), great stock tyres, nil turbo lag (didn't like i20 D for this), awesome stock ICE, good a.s.s. (this is where I said goodbye to punto and vista) and a high expected resale value.
Furthermore the space inside is quite nice and airy, which is more than I can say for swift and ritz. (Agree that these are great cars though - though swift vdi should really come with a music player!)
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Old 24th August 2011, 23:57   #57
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
In the premium hatches I have narrowed down are Jazz X variant and the Polo1.6. Both cars being evenly posied in features and have to take a call by this weekend.

On OTR price front (Bangalore)

Honda Jazz 742,740 ( no discounts)
Polo 1.6 750,992 (free insurance, corporate discount,extended
warranty)

Jazz delivery time is 8 weeks and the Polo 1.6 is readily available! ( not a criteria though !)

Its a real close call, any pointers to this?

Cheers!
Hey Volkman - I somehow did not like the front shape of the Jazz and moreover the service intervals for the Jazz are like every 3 or 6 months.. whereas for the Polo its every year.. I would not like to keep going to the service center every 3 months!
Polo 1.6 on the other hand though very powerful, I did not not find the engine responsive.. by responsive I mean if I tap the accelerator pedal the car does not immediately respond but takes a second to register the input and then surges ahead.. which I found a bit disconcerting..
IMHO, the Jazz would be a good family hatch with all its space while the Polo would be a good hatch for the single person / couple.
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Old 25th August 2011, 00:23   #58
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
Good thread. But looking at the no. of responses on premium v/s non-premium, I have a suggestion – Instead of removing certain cars, shed the word premium, and rename the thread to something like “The ultimate hatchback guide (4 to 8 lakhs)”. Otherwise, the discussion may go mainly on my preferred car is more premium than yours, and some owners may get offended on why his/her car is not there in the premium list
Solid suggestion. VB, I am reminding myself to PM you before starting on such a venture next time. Thanks, my friend!


Quote:
Originally Posted by lavish_n View Post
Nice thread RavenAvi. Good luck
It sure would be useful for folks looking to buy a hatch.

I would also like to mention that Honda Jazz is among the most refined engine car in India + good NVH & gear shift is butter smooth.
Thanks, bud! I hope it does.

Indeed. Jazz is the best petrol hatch money can buy in the country today, without doubt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wilful View Post
The only premium (large) hatch that currently ticks all the boxes (well almost all) as far as options are concerned is the i20 - since its versions include diesel and an AT version in petrol. The only thing missing is an AT version in diesel. Plus it is high on space and comfort and loaded with features.
Of course it rates below some others in FE, handling etc.
Even the i20 has it's fair share of issues - lifeless steering specially at high speeds, steering rattle problem, very dark interiors, claustrophobic rear seat, etc. Although it is the most loaded hatch of the lot.

A diesel AT would take the price of the i20 inching towards the 9L bracket, so I think Hyundai was wise to keep it out. The only diesel AT this side of 11L is the Hyundai Verna, and I am sure they didn't want the i20 to eat into the Verna AT's sales!


Quote:
Originally Posted by karty_83 View Post
Good thread Raven. It ll be of great help for all the guys out there to make a more informed decision.

How about another thread on similar lines for AT's only ?
Thanks. And that's a good suggestion. Will do some deep research into this and post a comparo soon, if I can.


Quote:
Originally Posted by blue_pulsar View Post
Liva, Vista are premium hatches??? Even though Figo is built to price, I feel its eligible to be in this list.
And if that's the case, I wonder how Ritz is missing from this list?
No, Vista is not a premium hatch. But Toyota has placed the Liva, specially the top-end variant, bang into the premium hatch bracket simply by it's atrocious pricing. I agree that the Liva doesn't deserve to be in the 7L priced group, and it's prices should be slashed, IMO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aryasanyal View Post
Just the Polo 1.6 and the Jazz for me. Haven't seen the new Swift - hence can't comment on it.

No, not the new Fabia - a car that doesn't provide a rear defogger and wiper to the buyer even on the top-end model doesn't deserve a 'premium' tag, in my opinion.
Fabia was a premium hatch in every sense of the word when it was first launched with that hair-raising price. Yes, Skoda has cut down on some features to price it competitively, but the Fabia is still very much a premium hatch just by it's build quality, riding comfort, and driveability.


Quote:
Originally Posted by devarshi84 View Post
U-VA and Beat are missing.

I don't see a reason why Ritz should not be included.

Also if premium goes by price then Premier RiO should be included too.

What about Fiat 500 and VW Beetle?
And that would have made the list complete LOL!

I checked on the U-VA. The top-end model is priced under 5L so I decided to keep it out. Different reason for the Beat - I thought it targeted a different segment altogether (the i10 one).

The four listed below the Fabia should have been omitted, then the listing would have been complete. Ritz will find a place in the Figo/Liva/Micra/Vista/i10/Beat section in the future.

Fiat 500 and VW Beetle - the supremos of premium hatches! If only we really stretched our budget to 20L, maybe they would have come in. But we were having a look at the 4L - 8L bracket, so nope.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanhunt123 View Post
I think this debate is never ending. If Punto is premium, so is Swift/Ritz. They offer ACC, electric OVRM etc. And so is Micra. First in class to offer Keyless entry etc.

I think instead of having the title as "Premium Hatchback", just keeping it has hatches between 4-8 Lakh would be better.
The way I see it, any hatch with a starting price of 4L - 4.5L and having a top variant touching the 7L price and comes loaded with features, belongs to the "premium" brand. In that case, Figo/Vista/Micra miss out. Liva is the only one left.

Excellent suggestion for the thread title. I support it wholly. Thanks!


Quote:
Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
IMO the best premium hatch has to be ANSS, because of the following reasons:
1. It's got a diesel mill
2. It's a competent handler
3. It's got the best A.S.S. (common, cost, capability)
4. It's priced reasonably well as compared to few others in the list
5. It's engines got sufficient grunt for Indian condition
6. It's got the best resale value

I bet someone would few more points here, but, I feel these are enough for me to suggest ANSS to anyone.
Well, the top-end Swift certainly comes loaded. It is built sturdily and has a good performing set of engines to back it's nomination. The superb DDiS alone should help the Swift make the cut, if nothing else. Awesome features in the ZXi/ZDi help a lot too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
In the premium hatches I have narrowed down are Jazz X variant and the Polo1.6. Both cars being evenly posied in features and have to take a call by this weekend.

On OTR price front (Bangalore)

Honda Jazz 742,740 ( no discounts)
Polo 1.6 750,992 (free insurance, corporate discount,extended
warranty)

Jazz delivery time is 8 weeks and the Polo 1.6 is readily available! ( not a criteria though !)

Its a real close call, any pointers to this?

Cheers!
I still back the Jazz, even over the Polo 1.6. Just for the practicality it offers, overall features (comes more loaded than the Polo 1.6), is a pretty solid performer in the city and on the highways alike, plus it is a complete family package. Polo 1.6 is a driver's car, and is made for the highways. I don't think it will return good FE figures in city driving, plus lack of features and a comparatively smaller rear seat to the Jazz - I say wait a bit and go for the Jazz.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
My definition of a premium hatch would be the following; (in no particular order)
  • Large & decently spacious
  • Should give you a big car feel
  • Good equipment level (safety included)
  • Decently powerful engines
  • Good Dynamics
  • Good interiors
  • Good footwear (wider tyres)
The other factors like A.S.S, maintenance etc are supporting points and in no way make a hatchback premium.

Going by the above points my list would be; (all in their top variants)
  1. Hyundai i20
  2. Honda Jazz
  3. Fiat Punto
  4. VW Polo
  5. New Swift
Totally agree. Top variants of the models are indeed the main criteria for distinguishing a premium hatch, in addition to fit and finish, driveability and handling, and features on offer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by xingamazon View Post
I am sorry RavenAvi, but I do not get the intention of this thread, are you just listing down all the cars available.
Or are you making a comparison of cars (in that case we need to have ratings attached)
Or are you just making the good and bads list of cars (in that case you could have taken it from Official reviews list)
Or are you just giving your opinion about the cars.

If there is no details on comparison between them, then this not to be termed as shoot out. The discussion in this thread are only going about whats premium and whats not. Which I am sure was not your intent of starting the thread
The intention of the thread was to give prospective hatchback buyers in the 4L - 8L budget bracket, a peek at the choices available today, with their positives and negatives, in the Indian car scene.

No comparisons were being made here, just a simple list of positives and negatives of each car listed. Nothing was taken from the official reviews, although I sat down and read through some of them which I linked with the car listed, so that a prospect can go to that official review thread and check out the car in question.

Most of them are my opinions, plus some pointers are from Mdsaab and some from my real-life friends who own these cars.

Indeed, the whole point of the thread went on a tangent with the addition of the Vista/Figo/Micra/Liva/i10. I initially had only the Micra & Liva listed (because both models' top-end variants went over 7L in some Indian states), then added the i10 because I felt it was a premium hatch in it's own segment. Demands came in from members that I include the Figo and Vista as well (see the first replies of the thread), and I tossed them in as well, against my better judgement. I used them merely as a comparative example (though the title of the thread "premium" meant they should not have been added to the original list), and now we find ourselves here.

Like VB and EthanHunt pointed, a more apt title would have been "A 4L - 8L Hatchback Comparison". Wish I had the power to change the thread title, or even the ability to edit my post after 30 minutes. A lot of stuff could have been avoided.

As it is, the list is flawed, and I take the blame for it. Sorry, I will try to do better next time! It's a promise!
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Old 25th August 2011, 08:42   #59
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

All other factors aside, which of these hatches are actual drivers cars? (excellent steering feedback, good brakes, etc)

The Figo is a great all round package, and good drivers car. I see lots of engine tuning options too to boost engine performance.

I likes the Puntos steering feedback and brakes, and I am sure the same engine tuning options are available for it too.

What about the Polo, Liva and Micra?
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Old 25th August 2011, 10:18   #60
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Default re: The Ultimate B2-Segment Hatchbacks Comparison!

I think the 160 mm GC of the Jazz is a concern, in the Swift it is 170 mm. But the Jazz interiors and finish puts it ahead of Swift. On Highways the Jazz should be okay, the problem could be in smaller village roads due to the 160 mm GC. Of course the Fabia has even less at 158 or so. Polo is a longer car, but with lesser leg room at the back and a smaller boot, and its 1.6 option is more expensive.
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