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View Poll Results: Which would be the best hatch post mods?
Abarth Punto with Remap (150 WHP) 30 50.85%
Polo TDI Stage 2 tune (165 WHP) 25 42.37%
Figo Diesel with Remap (110 WHP) 4 6.78%
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Old 13th July 2016, 10:49   #31
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Default Re: Best Hatchback For Enthusiasts : Under 14 Lakhs (Post Modifications)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
Kryptonite has got stage 2 tune for his Laura(includes a bigger turbo). He was running on stage 1 remap in Rapid (but with an aggressive map).
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...imes-here.html (The Vbox 0-100 thread: Post your times here!)

He mentions 8.26 for stage 2 race tune of the Rapid. And 8.54 seconds for the Polo GT (330 NM, 140 BHP) remap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
They need to check with few things like parts compatibility.
What are the approximate costs involved?

PS- Autobild test report for the Baleno RS is out and the 0-100 figure is 10.1 seconds. Given our version is usually lighter, I think it will just about manage a shade below 10secs to the 100, similar to the Figo TDCI

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 13th July 2016 at 10:54.
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Old 13th July 2016, 10:59   #32
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Default Re: Best Hatchback for an Enthusiast - Under 14 lakhs (with mods)

If you want a performance hatch on a budget of 12 - 14 lakhs, look no further than the Abarth Punto. Damn fast, great steering, awesome road manners. Yes, the gearshifts aren't slick and the ergonomics are messed up, but no car is perfect. If performance is your priority, this should be your top choice.

Would also suggest not modifying for the sake of modifying. In your opening post, you've already mentioned the remap costs for the Abarth Punto. Trust me, it's quick in stock form itself. Why talk of modifying when the stock car is so good? Again, that's modifying just for the sake of modifying, especially when you are buying a factory modified car! I'd get a long warranty, upgrade the tyres and enjoy her.

Over the other cars you've listed, the Abarth Punto also has the advantage of being a petrol. High-revving a petrol is a joy in itself and can't be matched by any diesel. Not to forget, you already have an S-Cross 1.6L, so why not a petrol now?
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Old 13th July 2016, 11:41   #33
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Default Re: Best Hatchback for an Enthusiast - Under 14 lakhs (with mods)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vik0728 View Post
I am not sure about the remap on 1.5 GT TDi, but our very own Bangalorean brraj has done a remap on the 1.6 GT TDI.

V-Box figures: 0-100 in 8.8 sec

This is faster than Abarth Punto in its current tune.
True. I'm aware of his car. 8.8 secs to 100 is extremely impressive indeed and faster than 8.92 recorded for the Punto Abarth.

But-

1. OP doesn't want to buy used. So 1.6 GT TDI is out of the equation.

2. Will 1.5 GT remap be as fast? Stock 1.5 TDI is no match for the old explosive 1.6

But let's hope that after a remap it probably will, but there is no replacement for displacement as you said. So the end result will be few milli seconds slower than the 1.6 GT TDI. Not that it would matter.

3. This would be faster by .1 seconds compared to a stock Punto Abarth, with the stupid Alnacs. But OP is willing and has the budget to get rid of those Alnacs.

With better tyres, the Abarth might just do the FIAT claimed 8.8 seconds similar to a modded GT.

4. What the Punto Abarth gets additionally is warranty, extended warranty since it is just as fast on a stock tune.

5. What it also gets is further remap potential. Comparing a stage 2 Polo to a stock Punto Abarth sounds nice, but then the Polo is performing at the limits with no scope for more.

Whereas the Punto Abarth is running similar timings stock and can get faster later (if needed) with a remap, or even more with its own stage 2.

If 10.51 second Polo GT TDI can do 8.8 with a remap and better tyres, wouldn't a remap Punto Abarth with stock 8.9 second go much lower with mods?

6. Cost of GT modifications. The modifications (minimum mentioned) needed are remap, tyres, suspension and brakes. Quite a big figure as a result, whereas it's only tyres for the Punto Abarth.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 13th July 2016 at 11:56.
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Old 13th July 2016, 12:15   #34
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Default Re: Best Hatchback for an Enthusiast - Under 14 lakhs (with mods)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
What are the approximate costs involved?
Stage 2 TOT Remap : 65K
New Imported Turbo : 1.5 lakhs / Used Turbo : 80K

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
If you want a performance hatch on a budget of 12 - 14 lakhs, look no further than the Abarth Punto. Damn fast, great steering, awesome road manners. Yes, the gearshifts aren't slick and the ergonomics are messed up, but no car is perfect. If performance is your priority, this should be your top choice.

Would also suggest not modifying for the sake of modifying. In your opening post, you've already mentioned the remap costs for the Abarth Punto. Trust me, it's quick in stock form itself. Why talk of modifying when the stock car is so good? Again, that's modifying just for the sake of modifying, especially when you are buying a factory modified car! I'd get a long warranty, upgrade the tyres and enjoy her.

Over the other cars you've listed, the Abarth Punto also has the advantage of being a petrol. High-revving a petrol is a joy in itself and can't be matched by any diesel. Not to forget, you already have an S-Cross 1.6L, so why not a petrol now?
I completely agree that Abarth Punto is a more practical choice here. It beats all other cars in stock form. But what I am looking for here is a project car within my budget. This is one car which I would buy and forget about warranty .

Abarth Punto is not at all underpowered and there is no need to do any mods. But it does have potential to do little more power. I dont want to keep it unexploited.

I can say both high revving petrols and torque monster diesels are fun to drive, albeit in a different way. Diesel fun is achieved at lower revv band and exploited the maximum during our daily drives.

Get an open stretch, downshift and redline a petrol. Nothing can beat that sweet sound and power rush post 4K rpm.

Abarth is a high revving petrol and yes it has a turbo too making it an obvious choice. But since I have a budget and willing to do modifications, Stage 2 tuned Polo/ Remapped Abarth Punto it should be. Baleno booster jet is another car which would definitely make into my list.
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Old 13th July 2016, 12:43   #35
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Default Re: Best Hatchback for an Enthusiast - Under 14 lakhs (with mods)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
I completely agree that Abarth Punto is a more practical choice here. It beats all other cars in stock form. But what I am looking for here is a project car within my budget. This is one car which I would buy and forget about warranty .
But think of the Abarth Punto as a modified car. Main difference is, instead of a 1-2 man shop modifying it, Fiat - the company - has! Now, whose modifications will you trust more? A pappu who's learnt his skills by trial and error or a conglomerate with thousands of qualified engineers and R&D facilities.

Quote:
But it does have potential to do little more power. I dont want to keep it unexploited.
Again, it is already exploited. Drive the stock Punto 1.4 and the Abarth Punto side by side to know just how much .

Quote:
But since I have a budget and willing to do modifications, Stage 2 tuned Polo/ Remapped Abarth Punto it should be.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for modifications. My only point is, enjoy her in stock form for a while. Don't modify just because you want to modify or have the budget. What you are buying here is a factory modified car. It's the same advice I've given to countless Octavia vRS owners (the 2004 one).

Lastly, be sure to drive a remapped Abarth Punto first. For all you know, it makes more horsepower, but suffers from heavy turbo-lag, making it a pain to drive (typical of nearly all modified cars with big BHP & small engines).

Last edited by GTO : 13th July 2016 at 12:44.
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Old 13th July 2016, 13:01   #36
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Default Re: Best Hatchback for an Enthusiast - Under 14 lakhs (with mods)

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
But think of the Abarth Punto as a modified car. Main difference is, instead of a 1-2 man shop modifying it, Fiat - the company - has! Now, whose modifications will you trust more? A pappu who's learnt his skills by trial and error or a conglomerate with thousands of qualified engineers and R&D facilities.
I really wish manufacturers only gave us the option of remap/performance mods. Nobody knows the car better than manufacturer. Abarth Punto is a brave attempt by Fiat in India (thought it failed).

Quote:
Again, it is already exploited. Drive the stock Punto 1.4 and the Abarth Punto side by side to know just how much .
Yes, it's exploited. But there is more to exploit . Fiat gives higher state of tune abroad for same 1.4 T-Jet engine. Here, in India they have lowered it down to 145 bhp.

Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for modifications. My only point is, enjoy her in stock form for a while. Don't modify just because you want to modify or have the budget. What you are buying here is a factory modified car. It's the same advice I've given to countless Octavia vRS owners (the 2004 one).

Lastly, be sure to drive a remapped Abarth Punto first. For all you know, it makes more horsepower, but suffers from heavy turbo-lag, making it a pain to drive (typical of nearly all modified cars with big BHP & small engines).
I understand your point. If I buy Abarth Punto, I would never want to see a Stage 2 remapped Polo TDI doing better .
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Old 13th July 2016, 13:12   #37
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Doc, thanks for considering Abarth Punto in your list despite many issues - service centres, poor ergonomics, bad gearbox action (compared to others) , etc.

But as an Abarth owner let me tell you only one thing. All this talk of modding, adding stuff, remapping etc is fine till one level. Practically factory made is factory made. You can boast of faster 0-100 specs or faster lap times, but not of reliability. Extensively modded cars are a sinking money pit unless you plan to run them competitively.

Abarth Punto has been modded by Fiat and they offer 3 year warranty on it. If your budget permits, always buy the car with most power, dynamics from factory rather than spend on better brakes, suspensions, bigger intercooler, turbo etc. Today's cars have a lot of electronics and if (rather when) they fail , it'll be a huge nightmare to sort it out.

I've personally worked on adding Autopark system to old Jetta, and even though it is not a performance mod it took us a lot of debugging and frustrated nights to get it to work.


Another point, You have mentioned stopping power. Of all the cars in your list, Abarth has the best braking. Even if you buy any other car, you'll have to spend time and money to retro fit disk brakes at the rear.


The driving feel is more important. Test drive the cars and decide for yourself what you like. The one you like may not be the fastest, but the most fun to drive for you. Buy a car that'll give you the best pleasure/fun/happiness over faster 0-100, top speed etc.


Regards
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Old 13th July 2016, 14:23   #38
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Default Re: Best Hatchback for an Enthusiast - Under 14 lakhs (with mods)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post

Yes, it's exploited. But there is more to exploit . Fiat gives higher state of tune abroad for same 1.4 T-Jet engine. Here, in India they have lowered it down to 145 bhp.
The bhp and Torque in the Indian Abarth are limited due to its gearbox. It cannot take more torque than what they have already provided in stock form. So be careful.
In fact I would go on to suggest that if Modifying is the primary purpose, avoid Abarth.

Even TSI is a fairly complex piece of engineering and I would not advice on modifying it.
For modifications, your best bet would be the Figo.
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Old 13th July 2016, 14:29   #39
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Default Re: Best Hatchback for an Enthusiast - Under 14 lakhs (with mods)

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Originally Posted by blackwasp View Post
Doc, thanks for considering Abarth Punto in your list despite many issues - service centres, poor ergonomics, bad gearbox action (compared to others) , etc.

But as an Abarth owner let me tell you only one thing. All this talk of modding, adding stuff, remapping etc is fine till one level. Practically factory made is factory made. You can boast of faster 0-100 specs or faster lap times, but not of reliability. Extensively modded cars are a sinking money pit unless you plan to run them competitively.

Abarth Punto has been modded by Fiat and they offer 3 year warranty on it. If your budget permits, always buy the car with most power, dynamics from factory rather than spend on better brakes, suspensions, bigger intercooler, turbo etc.
Yes, a stock powerful car with good dynamics is better any day. A stage 1 remapped Polo which I have driven was as good as stock Abarth Punto in terms of performance. Abarth has firmer suspension and better body control.

For a modded hatch under 14 lakhs, leave aside practicality & warranty claims.

Polo TDI stage 2 remap (165 WHP) > Abarth Punto remapped (150 WHP) > Figo diesel remapped (110 WHP)

For a stock hatch,

Abarth Punto > > Figo diesel > Polo GT TDI

Yes, I would consider Figo over POLO GT in stock form. I save good 2 lakh rupees, get 6 airbags and slightly better suspension. I find the rear setup soft in Polo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post
The bhp and Torque in the Indian Abarth are limited due to its gearbox. It cannot take more torque than what they have already provided in stock form. So be careful.
In fact I would go on to suggest that if Modifying is the primary purpose, avoid Abarth.

Even TSI is a fairly complex piece of engineering and I would not advice on modifying it.
For modifications, your best bet would be the Figo.
This is not actually due to gearbox. I had a good talk about the same with Wolf tuner. He has one of the best maps for Fiat cars with switchable option. According to him it's about fuel and compression. Fiat has not increased the torque for a reason. Car is already under high boost even at stock 212 NM torque. Power is increased through remap by making this peak torque hold for longer revv band. He says it's very difficult to increase torque beyond 230 NM with remap. Few tuners have claimed high figures which should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Figo is not the best bet for modification here. After market parts support is not good. For Polo, everything is bolt on upgrade. There are many Polo's running with mods. I have not yet found single review of New Figo remapped online. After I posted this thread here, one of friends texted me saying remap for new Figo is not yet ready, thanks to new ECU protection.

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 13th July 2016 at 14:44.
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Old 13th July 2016, 15:29   #40
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Default Re: Best Hatchback for an Enthusiast - Under 14 lakhs (with mods)

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Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post

Figo is not the best bet for modification here, one of friends texted me saying remap for new Figo is not yet ready, thanks to new ECU protection.
Well then Dr.Naren, considering your primary requirements and current scenario, IMO you have 2 choices at your disposal:

1. You can go in for the GT TDI rather than the regular TDI from VW. Even if the difference is only with the ECU calibration/remap, the base power for all your modifications is set higher on the GT, which surely comes with an advantage

2. As your requirement is not immediate and even if Fiat offer you an Abarth Punto at 9Lakhs all inclusive today, you may not want to buy the car.
So by the time you are ready to sign the cheque, you will have a Polo GT TDI with ~110PS of OEM power, Baleno RS 1.0, probably Polo 1.4 TSI with MT, may be an updated Abarth Punto (if not anything, cosmetically at least).

For now, I think you have your hands full with the torque king, the DDiS 320 in your garage.
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Old 13th July 2016, 15:40   #41
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Default Re: Best Hatchback for an Enthusiast - Under 14 lakhs (with mods)

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Originally Posted by Vik0728 View Post
Well then Dr.Naren, considering your primary requirements and current scenario, IMO you have 2 choices at your disposal:

1. You can go in for the GT TDI rather than the regular TDI from VW. Even if the difference is only with the ECU calibration/remap, the base power for all your modifications is set higher on the GT, which surely comes with an advantage

2. As your requirement is not immediate and even if Fiat offer you an Abarth Punto at 9Lakhs all inclusive today, you may not want to buy the car.
So by the time you are ready to sign the cheque, you will have a Polo GT TDI with ~110PS of OEM power, Baleno RS 1.0, probably Polo 1.4 TSI with MT, may be an updated Abarth Punto (if not anything, cosmetically at least).

For now, I think you have your hands full with the torque king, the DDiS 320 in your garage.
Well said buddy. Yes, I seriously wish more cars to be added in my list .

If remap/mods is considered for a Polo, it really doesn't matter if it's a regular or GT. A regular Polo and GT Polo would make same numbers post mods.

Haha, I had decided would never remap 1.6 S-Cross. After I drove the car for 1 week (80 KM/day), I got used to stock power and got bitten by remap bug. It would be remapped by one of the well known tuner in August first week.

Stay tuned
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Old 13th July 2016, 16:22   #42
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Default Re: Best Hatchback for an Enthusiast - Under 14 lakhs (with mods)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
With better tyres, the Abarth might just do the FIAT claimed 8.8 seconds similar to a modded GT.

Whereas the Punto Abarth is running similar timings stock and can get faster later (if needed) with a remap, or even more with its own stage 2.
Apart from tyres, just feed it 97 octane petrol, it will be even better in stock form. Main thing in that car is the brakes, it decelerates very rapidly. A remap and exhaust (just of kicks with a low bass exhaust note) should keep you happy unless you drive on run ways will no one to stop your acceleration.

As GTO said, Abarth Punto in the stock form itself is quick. So live with peace of mind without performance mods.
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Old 13th July 2016, 16:51   #43
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Is changing the gearbox to the short shift variant an option for modding the Abarth Punto.
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Old 13th July 2016, 16:57   #44
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Default Re: Best Hatchback for an Enthusiast - Under 14 lakhs (with mods)

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Originally Posted by rdst_1 View Post
Is changing the gearbox to the short shift variant an option for modding the Abarth Punto.
I don't think you can do much with this gearbox, but the Doc. could do this if he decided to go with the Abarth.

Replacement Clutch Kit - Custom Made + Reinforced

Diameter [mm]: 220
Transmittable torque about 30% higher than the original one.
Contains Sachs clutch cover and custom made clutch disc with special organic friction material.


http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sach...4707_4709.html
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Old 13th July 2016, 17:29   #45
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Default Re: Best Hatchback for an Enthusiast - Under 14 lakhs (with mods)

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Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
Apart from tyres, just feed it 97 octane petrol, it will be even better in stock form. Main thing in that car is the brakes, it decelerates very rapidly. A remap and exhaust (just of kicks with a low bass exhaust note) should keep you happy unless you drive on run ways will no one to stop your acceleration.

As GTO said, Abarth Punto in the stock form itself is quick. So live with peace of mind without performance mods.
Remapped Abarth would be more practical than Stage 2 tuned Polo TDI. I had almost decided on stage 2 tuned Polo. Now after reading through all the suggestions, I am very much confused .

Abarth Punto remapped, Polo TDI stage 2 tune and yet to be launched Baleno booster jet are in my list now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keroo1099 View Post
I don't think you can do much with this gearbox, but the Doc. could do this if he decided to go with the Abarth.

Replacement Clutch Kit - Custom Made + Reinforced

Diameter [mm]: 220
Transmittable torque about 30% higher than the original one.
Contains Sachs clutch cover and custom made clutch disc with special organic friction material.
I am not planning to do any major hardware mods if I buy Abarth. Getting stock parts from factory itself is a problem and Fiat dealerships are getting closed. A simple remap plus FFE would be the only mod and yeah, better rubber.
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