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Old 1st February 2017, 15:45   #31
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Default Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI

Hello asitkde,
IMO get yourself the VW Polo GT TSI. Going through the posts, I get a feeling that your heart is set on the Polo GT TSI.

Regarding the long term reliability concerns, my brother owns the VW Polo GT TSI since March 2015 and the car has clocked around 28000 KM without any issues so far. The car is mainly driven in the city with occasional highway runs and has performed really well. I know 28000 KM is not that much to judge the long term reliability but still gives you a fair idea of what to expect.

Also, the after sales service is not that bad as it is usually made out to be. Even I own the VW Polo TDI since Aug 2015 and my after sales experience is pretty good here in Pune and the same has been reported by brother for Hyderabad as well. However do check around for people's after sales experiences with your local VW dealer.

Hope this helps.
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Old 1st February 2017, 19:56   #32
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Default Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI

Quote:
Originally Posted by asitkde View Post
I think my wish of getting a small reliable petrol hatch is fading away.

The Boosterjet is going to arrive on Baleno, but I am not too intent on buying the Baleno, because I do not think (am I wrong?) the build quality is on par with what I want, say the S-Cross.
If you are ready to wait, S-Cross petrol ( possibly with booster-jet )should be around the corner. Baleno fades in terms of ride quality compared to S cross.
If you want a small compact hatch maybe you can try IGNIS AMT if you like ,the only issue being it does not come in Top end variant.
This suggestion is keeping in mind majority of driving will take place in traffic.

Last edited by silverado : 1st February 2017 at 19:59.
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Old 1st February 2017, 22:59   #33
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Default Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI

S-Cross, while brilliant, it does not make sense to have two 4.3 metre cars, which would both leave same problems unsolved.

There is another car which has not yet been mentioned by anybody yet, that I feel might suit your requirements quite well.

Honda Brio

The car is well built, has a peppy and smooth Honda engine, its a small car, which means driving in city will be very easy, and has a proven automatic transmission. You yourself can testify to the Honda service experience. The only major shortcoming of this car is the boot space.

However, your requirement is primarily for city usage, and this is the perfect companion for Honda City, which can be used for highways. Recent facelift has given it fresh interiors, and it just might have almost everything you are looking for, but in a packages thats 3 lakhs cheaper than the Polo. Save these 3 lakhs, because when in 4 years you will look to upgrade your City, you can go with cars like S-Cross 1.6 with much more peace of mind, instead of setting for 1.3, or if Honda comes to their senses, then Civic/WR-V.

You may infact be able to score a good deal on Brio AT too, as its currently loaded with discounts.

There are few very satisfied owners in our forum of the Brio AT who may be able to help you well. I have linked one of the detailed ownership experience threads below.

SGIITK: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...da-brio-v.html (Urban Titanium Honda Brio V-AT)
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Old 2nd February 2017, 18:39   #34
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Default Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI

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Originally Posted by autorahul View Post

However, your requirement is primarily for city usage, and this is the perfect companion for Honda City, which can be used for highways. Recent facelift has given it fresh interiors, and it just might have almost everything you are looking for, but in a packages thats 3 lakhs cheaper than the Polo.
As a former owner of a 2011 Brio V-MT, I feel I can chime in.

The Brio just can't be compared to a Polo. The Brio feels cheap - every single part, surface and bit that you touch and feel is cheap. The facelift has improved it a bit but still the switch gear and the primary surfaces are just el-cheapo! (sorry for the lack of a better word )

Yes it has a decent engine and light weight but you really have to work the gearbox to make it go. What this does is kill the fuel efficiency. In Bangalore traffic (which is quite similar to Kolkata traffic I might add since I go there once a year), I never managed a fuel economy better than 9-9.5. With the same commute, the Polo TSi returns close to 11.

I also just can't quantify how much more refined the Polo is. In the Brio, you'll hear tyre noise, engine noise, airconditioner noise while in the Polo it is eerily quiet in comparison. I can stick my neck out and say that the Polo TSI has refinement levels equal to D segment sedans, if not better.

The Brio has two other severe shortcomings compared to the Brio - it has a rickety, bumpy ride and the AC isn't very effective on hot days. These two in comparison are non issues in the Polo.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 12:22   #35
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Default Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axe77 View Post
IMO, based on the above, you should narrow your options to GT TSI and the Ecosport (yes - I am reopening the Ecosport option).
I like the sturdy build and the high driving position of the Ecosport. I am yet to drive the Ecosport automatic though. The Ford dealers in Kolkata have been very unkind to me in regard to a test-drive. But I did sit in the car in the showroom, and was not impressed with the environment inside, and particularly the seats. Seemed too cramped inside, and that infotainment system - looked like one has too much to do and too far to reach. If the Ford dealers offer the test-drive, I shall take it, and let you know. It looks unlikely at the moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by androdev View Post
Short version:
Get Polo TSI, or just continue with Getz. Why do you want a big fat diesel manual car? The only reason you are looking to buy a car is to beat the blues of city traffic, and Polo TSI is remarkably built just for that. I can assure you that no TSI owner will discourage you from buying it, isn't that good enough?
Thank you for the encouragement. I hope I become worthy of it.

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Originally Posted by androdev View Post
After 4 years, I expect your son to gift you a Tesla
I don't think, that's going to happen. He is the academic type, just like me. Although, when it comes to music, photography and driving, he has good taste.

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Originally Posted by androdev View Post
Haven't you managed a career, built a house, raised kids, eaten home cooked food? Can't you deal with a sub 10Lakh car ownership?
Yes, yes, yes (just one kid) and yes. Perhaps yes, perhaps no (to the last one). People get weak in their resolve, as they grow older.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
Different view on the Ecosport AT. It is definitely not fun to drive- Gets the job done ok and handles most situations, but the DCT is quite unpredictable, is not anywhere close to the VW DSG's and is mated to the wrong engine in a heavy car (Would have been much better with the Ecoboost range).
The above is consistent with what I have read. If I get a chance to drive it, I will form my own opinion. My naive feeling is that, Ecosport has the build quality I want, although the interiors are clumsy and aesthetically poor in my view, but it may not have the fun quotient in its automatic version with its 1.5L normal petrol engine. However, I do not want to say too much about the drive without a test-drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axe77 View Post
But wouldn't it still be far better than the other A/T options like Baleno and Jazz? My recommendation of the Ecosport was actually more as something that's better than the other options, unless of course even that is not the case.
If I may speculate here, I think you are correct in your comparison of the Ecosport AT with Baleno/Jazz AT. I have driven none of them, so can't say anything definite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPJ View Post
IMO get yourself the VW Polo GT TSI. Going through the posts, I get a feeling that your heart is set on the Polo GT TSI.
It is difficult not to like a small well-built classical-looking car with clean features that drives well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverado View Post
If you are ready to wait, S-Cross petrol ( possibly with booster-jet )should be around the corner. Baleno fades in terms of ride quality compared to S cross.
Yes, the ride quality of the S-Cross is very good, probably the best in its price range. A notch or two better than my City's. But the City has that excellent engine and overall refinement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverado View Post
If you want a small compact hatch maybe you can try IGNIS AMT if you like ,the only issue being it does not come in Top end variant. This suggestion is keeping in mind majority of driving will take place in traffic.
Is AMT a good thing? Besides, I don't like the side-profile of the Ignis, but that's a minor thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by autorahul View Post
S-Cross, while brilliant, it does not make sense to have two 4.3 metre cars, which would both leave same problems unsolved.
Well the S-Cross is 4.3m, and the City is more like 4.5m .

Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
As a former owner of a 2011 Brio V-MT, I feel I can chime in. The Brio just can't be compared to a Polo.
I think, I agree. I have driven a friend's Brio. While it's okay, the Polo TSI is a lot better, no doubt about it.

Folks, I did not get any feedback on the Polo GT TDi that I wanted to check out in my last post. It checks all the boxes, except that it is a manual. The VW SA told me that they do not have a GT TDi test-vehicle, because most people apparently buy the normal TDi Highline which has a similar engine having slightly inferior specs.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 16:22   #36
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Default Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI

Quote:
Originally Posted by asitkde View Post

Is AMT a good thing? Besides, I don't like the side-profile of the Ignis, but that's a minor thing.
I have not driven a AMT 1.2 car, but have driven Celerio which feels decent.
Best is to take a test drive a decide.
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Old 4th February 2017, 17:13   #37
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Default Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI

Quote:
Originally Posted by asitkde View Post
I think my wish of getting a small reliable petrol hatch is fading away. If you read my opening post carefully, long-term reliability was one of the mandatory requirements, because these days we keep our cars for 8 years at least.
If reliability is mandatory, then the Polo GT TSI is completely out. Here's another recently reported failure:

Quote:
Originally Posted by docsr View Post
They took about a week for the diagnostics. I was told that engineers from the parent company were on the scene. Finally, it was labelled as a mechatronics failure and the part was to be replaced. The item took another 10 days to arrive from Aurangabad. All in all , the car was in the service centre for almost a month.
If not the GT TSI, its direct competitor - the Elite i20 AT - is perfect for you. Top notch quality & reliability. Here's my review of the same engine + tranny from the 1st-gen i20. Take a spin, you'll be impressed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The 1.4L Automatic

The i20 Automatic gets a 1.4L petrol engine with 99 BHP (@ 5,500 rpm) and 136 Nm of torque (@ 4,200 rpm).

Start the engine & the supremely refined idle is immediately apparent. Shift the gear position into D and your left arm / leg can relax away to glory. Throttle response from 0 kph is excellent, thanks to the conventional torque converter gearbox. Piloting the i20 AT within the city is an effortless exercise, and engine noise is barely audible under a regular driving style. The 1.4L engine overall feels far peppier than the 1.2L MT, even with the automatic gearbox. For the times that you want to suddenly close that gap in traffic, the gearbox does take a moment to respond, yet its nowhere as lethargic as the Vento AT (as an example). This is definitely not a gearbox I would call lazy, with the kickdown response time being reasonably good. Spend a couple of kms driving the i20 AT and youll get completely accustomed to the engine & gearbox characteristics. You'll even learn how to press the accelerator just that much to invite a downshift. The light steering adds to the manoeuvrability factor...you can dart in & out of traffic with ease. I found the otherwise chaotic Mumbai evening traffic a breeze to tackle with the i20 AT. The engine upshifts early, at anywhere between the 1,750 2,000 rpm mark within the city. At 50 kph, the 1.4 is spinning over at a mere 1,500 rpm in 4th gear. With a light foot, the experience is very seamless, smooth and stress-free for the driver as well as passengers.

100 kph cruising speed has the rpm needle hovering at 2,600 rpm. With 99 BHP on tap and a fairly competent autobox, you can make fast progress on the expressway. In a pedal to the metal driving style, the gearbox will upshift at 5,800 5,900 rpm. The i20 has noticeably more muscle than its 1.2L sibling and can reach high speeds effortlessly, still having grunt for more. Yep, the i20 AT will pleasantly surprise you on the expressway. In L, 2 and O/D off modes, the engine will revv to a max rpm of 6,500 in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears (respectively). No issue with the brakes as the i20 AT gets disc brakes on all 4 wheels. This is a welcome move, more so in an automatic car.

As the rpm needle rises however, the 1.4L engine feels a generation too old compared to the 1.2L Kappa2 / VTVT series. It sounds quite unpleasant at 4,000 rpm, while the motor throws out an annoyingly boomy sound over 5,000 rpm. Noise aside, the 1.4L throws out no vibrations, even at 6,000 rpm.

The overdrive (4th gear) off button is located on the right side of the gear lever. Engaging O/D off makes 3rd the highest gear that the engine will use. This feature might be handy when driving on fast, hilly stretches of tarmac. I found the O/D off button particularly useful when overtaking too. Example : If you want to overtake that fast bus in front, press the O/D off button and the i20 AT will immediately shift down to 3rd gear. This allows you to build up the revvs and get the engine into its power-band before moving out for that overtaking manouveur. If you engage the L mode, the gearbox will provide drive in 1st gear only. Use this for extremely steep inclines or declines. There is also a level 2 that wont take the car above the 2nd gear ratio.

Its very easy to use engine braking in the i20 AT. If you are cruising in 4th gear, simply press the O/D off button for 3rd gear engine braking. You can similarly engage the 2 and L gearbox modes for 2nd & 1st gear engine braking. The i20s computer does account for over-revving and wont let the gearbox shift down if the resultant rpm is too high. For instance, if you engage L mode at 60 kph, the gearbox wont shift down to 1st until the speed drops to 45 kph.

There are two main downsides to the Hyundai i20 Automatic. One, the price. Depending on which city you are based in, the on-road price will be in the range of 8.5 9.0 lakh rupees. Further, the i20 Automatic was available in the Asta trim level earlier but with the facelift, you can only buy the AT in Sportz trim. Strangely enough, there isn't much of a price difference between the two (i.e. the old Asta and the new Sportz). The second disadvantage is the running cost. Petrol ATs arent known for their fuel efficiency. Expect 8 9 kpl, depending on the driving style & conditions in a metropolitan city.
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Old 5th February 2017, 13:59   #38
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Default Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
If reliability is mandatory, then the Polo GT TSI is completely out. Here's another recently reported failure:
Well, the case you refer to is for a Skoda Octavia 1.8L TSi. Of course, it is relevant, but the question is: how relevant it is for the Polo, for which the failure rate was much lower to start with, for whatever reason. That Skoda (2013 or earlier model probably) was fixed by VAG, mechatronics replaced in the DSG (DQ250) unit, although the car had to be at the workshop for a month. The customer was provided a Laura during the repair period. Looks like Skoda service was good in this case.

But, I got your point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
If not the GT TSI, its direct competitor - the Elite i20 AT - is perfect for you. Top notch quality & reliability. Here's my review of the same engine + tranny from the 1st-gen i20. Take a spin, you'll be impressed.
Well, the 1.4L petrol Elite i20 4-speed AT comes in only the Magna trim which does not even have ABS. Can that engine be really compared with the VAG 1.2L TSi, let alone the transmission? It costs above 9 Lakhs ex-showroom, very close to the price of the fully loaded Polo GT TSi. In addition, ABS is a must-have safety feature for us.

Yesterday, I had another test-drive of the GT TSi. First drive last weekend was a brief one, and I could not do a few things I would have liked to do with the car, since there was a problem with the left rear tyre in the test-vehicle.

It is a highly refined product, no doubt. The engine is a gem. I feel, it is a notch or two better than the 1.5L iVTEC in my City. While cruising at 50 kmph in D-mode, a bit of push on the accelerator pedal took it too 100 kmph in a matter of seconds, with the engine feeling not stressed at all. While the breaking was perhaps not phenomenal, but certainly was adequate with stock tyres. I did use hard breaking more than a couple of times from a speed, and the car came to a stop in a very assured manner, without the ABS coming into action. My Honda City with the stock 175/65/R15 Michelin tyres was not this assured in breaking, and the ABS did kick in many times. Now, after I have changed the tyres recently and upgraded them to Conti MC5 195/60/R15, I am getting much better braking, and the ABS has also not kicked in even once since. This is the right size of tyres for the Honda City, no doubt about that in my mind.

The DSG was a gem too. I tried also the S-mode (this naturally has more engine grunt, being at a lower gear at the same speed) and the tiptronic manual mode. Everything worked smoothly with assurance. The feel and touch of the gear stick was great.

The steering was light. The only significant issue with the car, I felt, was the lack of any feedback from the steering. However, it was precise. The car always felt planted and very well-assured of its movement with relatively sudden changes of directions at speeds of greater than 70 - 80 kmph.

Now, I want to make a comment or two on the relatively sudden changes of directions, mentioned just above. Of course, the car has body-roll while taking sharp corner turns at high speeds. But I would not make a huge noise about it, because even though it has a GT badge, we all know it is just a normal car with a bit of fun-quotient, and not a sports car. One does not get a sports car at 10 Lakhs. In a way, it is good that the suspension is not very stiff, because on rough city roads, the car then is able to take on the potholes reasonably well. Frankly, the car felt more assured and overall more refined on the road than my City. On the body-roll bit, let me share my experience with a 30 lakh Mini Cooper Countryman D on the hills around Costa Brava, an hour and a half north of Barcelona Spain in 2015 summer. The car could not deal with turns (not very sharp) on the hilly roads at 80 kmph, such was the body roll. I slowed down to 60 kmph, at times even below 50 kmph, to deal with many such turns on that road. I have seen GT TSi reviews here on team-bhp about crazy amount of body-roll at sharp corners. Even sports cars slow down at sharp corners, and here we are talking about a 10 Lakh car supposed to be driven mainly on our pothole-ridden city roads and highways. Long time ago, I actually drove a few real European sports cars in Columbus, Ohio, and I know what the feeling was like. Well, putting everything in perspective, I find the GT TSi's performance perfectly okay. Ideally, they could have a steering with a bit more feedback - that's about it, that is the only gripe, not a huge one though.

Well, there is no doubt, I liked the GT TSi. How bad it could be, if I don't end up buying it for the DSG reliability issue. But that remains a possibility.
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Old 5th February 2017, 22:03   #39
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Default Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI

The issue with steering feedback gets sorted to a large extent rather easily with a tyre change. Just get 195/60 or 205/55 rubber such as the Conti mc5 and things get a lot better. The stock Apollo Tyres do not provide much feedback.
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Old 5th February 2017, 23:50   #40
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Default Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI

Quote:
Originally Posted by asitkde View Post
Yesterday, I had another test-drive of the GT TSi. First drive last weekend was a brief one, and I could not do a few things I would have liked to do with the car, since there was a problem with the left rear tyre in the test-vehicle.
I am almost sure that you will eventually buy the TSI which is excellent and fits most of your requirement . Thoroughly enjoyed your writing style.

Did you drive the S-Cross again? Do pen your feedback.
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Old 6th February 2017, 14:16   #41
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Default Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI

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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
The issue with steering feedback gets sorted to a large extent rather easily with a tyre change. Just get 195/60 or 205/55 rubber such as the Conti mc5 and things get a lot better. The stock Apollo Tyres do not provide much feedback.
Good to know. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by sups View Post
Did you drive the S-Cross again? Do pen your feedback.
Well, My Nexa SA was supposed to get both the 1.3 and 1.6 for me to test-drive yesterday (Sunday). I had a couple telephone communication with him. But they didn't show up, didn't call me either. If I end up driving them, I shall let you know. I have already test-driven the 1.3 once, and the brief report is in my opening post of this thread.
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Old 19th February 2017, 11:55   #42
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Default Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI

Did you make your final choice? I am kind of stuck in similar situation. Feel I need to replace my wife's 7 year old i10 AT, and have driven Polo GT-TSi, Nissan Micra CVT, Ignis AMT, Baleno CVT and narrowed down to Polo TSi and Micra.
I already own a Jetta DSG and the service experience has been quite fine and the of course, car is a gem! So, there is a natural alignment towards Polo and it does drive beautifully!
Micra was pretty good too and it a good 3 Lakhs cheaper! Though worried that service may be an issue based on numerous complaints I have read.

Did you consider Micra as part of your evaluation?
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Old 19th February 2017, 19:51   #43
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Default Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI

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Originally Posted by Rammee View Post
Did you make your final choice? I am kind of stuck in similar situation. Feel I need to replace my wife's 7 year old i10 AT, and have driven Polo GT-TSi, Nissan Micra CVT, Ignis AMT, Baleno CVT and narrowed down to Polo TSi and Micra.
I already own a Jetta DSG and the service experience has been quite fine and the of course, car is a gem! So, there is a natural alignment towards Polo and it does drive beautifully!
Micra was pretty good too and it a good 3 Lakhs cheaper! Though worried that service may be an issue based on numerous complaints I have read.

Did you consider Micra as part of your evaluation?
We finally booked a Polo GT TSi, the newest version with 16" alloys and 195/55/R16 rubber. We are selling off the Getz privately to an individual, and our new car is currently on its way from the Pune factory to the dealership.

You have driven quite a few automatic hatches. You may perhaps jot down your comparative driving impressions for our knowledge.

I did not include the Micra CVT in my search. I developed high respect for the Nissan brand when living in the US in the 80s and the 90s, after driving Nissan Maximas and Stanzas quite extensively. They provided similar reliability, comfort and refinement as Toyota and Honda, at a slightly less price. In 1992, I did end up buying a new Nissan Sentra GXE (the top trim), ahead of a Corolla and a Civic, the only automatic we ever owned before. However, I have become a little disenchanted with the brand in their current predicament in India. I hope they come around.

Actually there are signs that this might actually happen. For your information, there is a completely new Micra going to be launched later in the year, according to this link: http://www.carblogindia.com/new-niss...ra-2017-india/.
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Old 20th February 2017, 09:16   #44
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Default Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI

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Originally Posted by asitkde View Post
We finally booked a Polo GT TSi, the newest version with 16" alloys and 195/55/R16 rubber.
Congratulations! After all deciding a car is not a small job. Please do give your impressions following the purchase.

I will mostly go with your other favourite S-Cross 1.3 Zeta . Just waiting for a long test drive.
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Old 20th February 2017, 11:11   #45
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Default Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI

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Originally Posted by sups View Post
Congratulations! After all deciding a car is not a small job. Please do give your impressions following the purchase.

I will mostly go with your other favourite S-Cross 1.3 Zeta . Just waiting for a long test drive.
Thank you.

From whatever you wrote earlier regarding your requirements, I think the S-Cross would be ideal for your purposes. Indeed, as you have also commented, the car is a favourite of mine, primarily because of its road manners, and also the ease of driving. Yesterday, on our way to a lunch invitation across the city, we saw two different white S-Cross, just ahead of us on two different roads. Even my wife noticed that my eyes were glued on them. But then she said perhaps we have taken the right decision (modulo DSG worries) because the S-Cross in person appeared a far wider car, and it is better for us to have one smaller car, when we already have the City.
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