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View Poll Results: Which FAST hatchback would you choose?
Maruti Suzuki Baleno RS 20 3.91%
Volkswagen Polo GT TSI 274 53.62%
Fiat Abarth Punto 190 37.18%
Ford Figo 1.5L P 27 5.28%
Voters: 511. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 28th March 2017, 16:13   #16
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Smile re: Fast Hatches: Baleno RS vs Polo GT TSI vs Figo 1.5 vs Abarth Punto

I had posted this on Baleno RS official review thread, so its the Figo w.r.t cost of acquisition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karthik Chandra View Post
In this chart the best bet is the Figo DCT, for me, it offers

# ESP, TCS, HLA, Dual Airbags + ABS with EBD
# Option to have side & curtain airbags
# Bigger naturally aspirated engine - lesser stress on the engine
# Dual Clutch 6 speed Automatic

All these at 7.44 lacs Ex Delhi - 1.25 lacs lesser than the Baleno RS and 1.78 lacs lesser than the GT TSI. Of course a little trade off in performance but the Figo ain't that bad either.

2 Points against the Figo

1. Baleno RS is a Maruti
2. GT TSI has a turbo charged engine

Nevertheless, if this move from Maruti can motivate Honda and Hyundai to get their turbo petrol engines, it'll be great.
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Old 28th March 2017, 16:29   #17
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Default re: Fast Hatches: Baleno RS vs Polo GT TSI vs Figo 1.5 vs Abarth Punto

Wonderful!

Right thread at the right time.

A kind message to the Mods:
Is it possible to add 'Ranking' to the options, rather than 'singular' choices?
Like for instance, the users could be asked to enter numeric values to indicate their preference order, like 1 for most preferred, 10 for least preferred.

Voted for the GT TSI as it is a great all-rounder!
- Excellent 4 Cyl refinement & usable punch
- Excellent Gearbox (Right until the moment when it fails.. Pardon me for the poor humor)
- Great build, safety, and quality, Timeless looks.
- Direct steering, if not the most involving.
- Predictable highway manners

The Baleno RS loses out for me due to just ONE single reason i.e. 3Cyl engine which is no match for the refinement of 4Cyls.

The Figo 1.5 petrol is not close to any of the above in my opinion.
It's neither torquey like the Turbo mills, nor rev-happy like the Honda 1.5 I-Vtec.
I would very much prefer the old 1.6 from the Fiesta S over this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post

Oh, but wait! GT TSi costs almost 11.5L in Bangalore now. That S-Cross 1.6 looks rather tempting from here.
That S-Cross 1.6 is roughly 15.5 Lakhs On road. That's a cool 4 Lakhs more (35% more).

Last edited by Zappo : 28th March 2017 at 17:56. Reason: added quote; Please limit yourself to two smileys per post please.
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Old 28th March 2017, 19:53   #18
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Default re: Fast Hatches: Baleno RS vs Polo GT TSI vs Figo 1.5 vs Abarth Punto

RS for me. Manual tranny, reliable, practical, service network support, fuel efficient all rolled in one. Other cars are good but reliability may be a concern for some of them. Yes it may be overpriced but i think the engine is imported from Japan and if anyone remembers why the old SS80 Maruti 800 still commands a premium in the used car market (because of the Japanese built engine) the RS is the way to go for me. If i was really in the market for a hatch i would be putting my money on the Jap engine'd RS.

Last edited by sumeethaldankar : 28th March 2017 at 20:14.
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Old 28th March 2017, 20:14   #19
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Default re: Fast Hatches: Baleno RS vs Polo GT TSI vs Figo 1.5 vs Abarth Punto

I don't consider any of these cars as a hot hatch. I'd want a car which pushes you back in the seat the moment you dab the accelerator. These cars are too soft and linear. Where's the turbo-kick?

The only true hot hatch in India is probably the Mini-Cooper S.

One thing I've noticed is that these days manufacturers have started using a segment type too liberally. For eg : Calling overgrown hatchbacks as SUV.

And now calling a 100 bhp car as a hot hatch. What the heck!

Still for the sake of the poll, have voted for GT TSI only because it introduces dual clutch transmission in a mass market car.

Last edited by The Brutailer : 28th March 2017 at 20:15.
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Old 28th March 2017, 20:18   #20
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Default re: Fast Hatches: Baleno RS vs Polo GT TSI vs Figo 1.5 vs Abarth Punto

My views are a little oldschool and I feel like hatchbacks must essentially be cheap to buy and cheap to maintain otherwise the appeal of a hatchback is lost. That said, I vote for none of these because I don't want to pay more than 7 lakhs for a hatchback unless it is some rally spec race replica collector item in which case even 30-40 lakhs would be okay.

I would rather plonk my money on a Zen Carbon/Steel. I see their value appreciating and because of how cheap they are to maintain, one has no qualms with pushing these things all day everyday and truly driving it fast and having fun rather than pretending to be as comfortable as you would have been if you bought a sedan and polishing all your GT/RS/Abarth badges No offense meant this is strictly my opinion.

Last edited by IshaanIan : 28th March 2017 at 20:20.
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Old 28th March 2017, 20:58   #21
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Default re: Fast Hatches: Baleno RS vs Polo GT TSI vs Figo 1.5 vs Abarth Punto

A hot hatch is supposed to have 3 things:
1) BIG and powerful engine because there is no replacement of displacement, and bigger the engine - sweeter is the sound it makes.

2) Decent handling with a strong build. Decent handling because I don't want to crash into the wall while cornering, and strong build - in case I end up crashing into the wall

3) Manual gearbox - no matter how much high tech, quick or fool proof your automatic dabba (box?) is; that absolute sense of control that a manual gives, is always unmatched by an auto. No sensors can replace a human mind. I was reading on some thread how a Polo TSi will be quick to 100 even if a monkey drive it - well, I agree. But, what about the planned overtakes those we pull out full throttle or narrow hilly roads? Holding the gear in manual for as long as you wish and from whatever range. Shifting straight from fifth to second in a Honda City i-VTEC at 50 kph because you suddenly spotted a chance to overtake that long truck with traffic heading towards you - an auto can never do that.
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Old 28th March 2017, 21:29   #22
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Default re: Fast Hatches: Baleno RS vs Polo GT TSI vs Figo 1.5 vs Abarth Punto

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
And now calling a 100 bhp car as a hot hatch. What the heck!
I know, 100 BHP is a bit sad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VKumar View Post
2) Decent handling with a strong build. Decent handling because I don't want to crash into the wall while cornering, and strong build - in case I end up crashing into the wall


Quote:
Manual gearbox - no matter how much high tech, quick or fool proof your automatic dabba (box?) is; that absolute sense of control that a manual gives, is always unmatched by an auto.
Most automatics have manual modes right?

Quote:
But, what about the planned overtakes those we pull out full throttle or narrow hilly roads? Holding the gear in manual for as long as you wish and from whatever range.
That holds on to a particular gear even at 5000 to 6000 RPM?

Quote:
Shifting straight from fifth to second in a Honda City i-VTEC at 50 kph because you suddenly spotted a chance to overtake that long truck with traffic heading towards you - an auto can never do that.
OK now why are we in the fifth gear at 50 kmph in a Honda City i-VTec? Trying to save some fuel now, are we?

There are some instances where you could be stuck at 50 kmph in 5th gear. Like when you are at 100 kmph in 5th gear, and suddenly a dog jumps out of the median. You slam the brakes to get down to 50 kmph, shift to 2nd gear and accelerate again. The above is not possible to do quickly in manual mode of an AT car.

But the above scenario is likely to be handled equally well in automatic/sports mode. Honda City MT takes 7.6 secs to get from 40 to 100 kmph (See Tech Specs: http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-rev...317,specs.aspx) while Ford DCT takes 6.68 secs

So even if we assume that the MT driver picks the right gear, Ford DCT will pull away from the Honda City MT in the above situation.

Also, like how one plans an overtaking manoeuvre in a manual car, you can similarly 'plan' an overtaking manoeuvre in an AT car too. Not possible when you simply jump into a car you have never driven before. But once you spend 5000+ kms in a particular AT car, you begin to understand its characteristics, limitations and strengths.

Last edited by smartcat : 28th March 2017 at 21:58.
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Old 28th March 2017, 21:39   #23
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Default re: Fast Hatches: Baleno RS vs Polo GT TSI vs Figo 1.5 vs Abarth Punto

Since its 2017, and the age of common rail I think its not fair to have a shootout without the diesels on the list.

Agreed, on the track, petrols might have an edge, but for a production car bought into a house, modern diesels make so much sense.

I would have loved the 1.6 GT TDi, and since its not available, its the 1.5 TDi for me. Also because of the HUGE aftermarket tuneablity of the engine.
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Old 28th March 2017, 23:15   #24
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Default re: Fast Hatches: Baleno RS vs Polo GT TSI vs Figo 1.5 vs Abarth Punto

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Most automatics have manual modes right?

That holds on to a particular gear even at 5000 to 6000 RPM?
The bog standard Ford DCT/ VW DSG do not rev match for you. Forget sheer acceleration times and fast upshifts. These gearboxes are reluctant to shift down even in manual mode and even when they do, it upsets the weight balance too much. Try shifting down a gear in sport/manual mode in any of these automatics, around a bend if it gets tighter or if you encounter a sudden undulation on the corner and you will simply spin out. Until the day when you get top notch automatics like you do in today's supercars, down to this segment, it is not only the feel of a manual that's better but you also benefit from the ability to go at a consistently quicker pace simply because you are able to rev-match Never underestimate the power and benefits of rev-matching and the art of dictating which direction forces are pointing in.

Last edited by IshaanIan : 28th March 2017 at 23:19.
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Old 29th March 2017, 00:26   #25
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Default re: Fast Hatches: Baleno RS vs Polo GT TSI vs Figo 1.5 vs Abarth Punto

Quote:
Originally Posted by VKumar View Post
A hot hatch is supposed to have 3 things:
1)

3) Manual gearbox - no matter how much high tech, quick or fool proof your automatic dabba (box?) is; that absolute sense of control that a manual gives, is always unmatched by an auto. No sensors can replace a human mind. I was reading on some thread how a Polo TSi will be quick to 100 even if a monkey drive it - well, I agree. But, what about the planned overtakes those we pull out full throttle or narrow hilly roads? Holding the gear in manual for as long as you wish and from whatever range. Shifting straight from fifth to second in a Honda City i-VTEC at 50 kph because you suddenly spotted a chance to overtake that long truck with traffic heading towards you - an auto can never do that.
You seem to have not driven a DSG or a ZF gearbox car.
1.Planned overtakes, by that you mean downshifting the car before the overtake, yes?

Answer: Paddle shifters or Manual mode. Or hell, just kickdown mode which drops 2-3 gears in milliseconds in my DSG and a little bit slower in the bmw zf. Still way faster and smoother than a manual.

2.You can hold gear till redline and as low as the ecu allows before it stalls. Now if you want to take speed breakers by slipping the clutch in 3rd gear (like I do in my Innova, because I'm lazy) then yeah sure manuals are better.

3.My car goes into 7th gear at 60kmpg, if I floor the accelerator, it downshifts to 3rd gear. Beat that, boy
Don't compare autos like CVT,TQ,AMT to proper ones like the PDK,DSG,ZF8
Got a jazz CVT and crysta 2.8Z in the family and the jazz is only good in traffic, no fun, the Innova is decent, just not fast enough to excite. Both can't hold a candle to the DSG.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post

I would rather plonk my money on a Zen Carbon/Steel. I see their value appreciating and because of how cheap they are to maintain, one has no qualms with pushing these things all day everyday and truly driving it fast and having fun rather than pretending to be as comfortable as you would have been if you bought a sedan and polishing all your GT/RS/Abarth badges No offense meant this is strictly my opinion.
I really wanted to buy a violet Tata Nano after the the repeated dings and insurance claims I have to incur in my Polo GT TSI. But the only reason against it was the lack of safety. Thats a big priority if one wants to drive fast, which is what hot hatches are made for

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
The bog standard Ford DCT/ VW DSG do not rev match for you. Forget sheer acceleration times and fast upshifts. These gearboxes are reluctant to shift down even in manual mode and even when they do, it upsets the weight balance too much. Try shifting down a gear in sport/manual mode in any of these automatics, around a bend if it gets tighter or if you encounter a sudden undulation on the corner and you will simply spin out. Until the day when you get top notch automatics like you do in today's supercars, down to this segment, it is not only the feel of a manual that's better but you also benefit from the ability to go at a consistently quicker pace simply because you are able to rev-match Never underestimate the power and benefits of rev-matching and the art of dictating which direction forces are pointing in.
My DSG rev matches bud. Suggest you to test again.
In manual mode it will downshift as long as the rpm level is low enough to not over overrev the engine in the lower gear, nothing else is stopping you from downshifting. It's not a moral police gearbox that will deny downshifts if the rpm is met.
Done the downshift at corners multiple times, esp has definitely saved my bacon loads of times. But it mostly good. You won't spin out as you sughest just by downshifting. Since it rev matches, there is no jerk or wheelspin to upset the balance. And yeah, enough experiencing cornering, second set of tires at 20k kms

Last edited by bblost : 29th March 2017 at 01:01. Reason: Mind your tone. Rude replies are not tolerated on Team-BHP. Thanks.
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Old 29th March 2017, 00:50   #26
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Default re: Fast Hatches: Baleno RS vs Polo GT TSI vs Figo 1.5 vs Abarth Punto

Voted for the Abarth punto.
I love this car for that explosive engine, that lovely steering, the outstanding dynamics & stability, those top class brakes and that tank like build. I have been living with its humbler sibling, the punto evo for over 2 years now and I can really imagine the kind of performance that can come out of the abarth.

Coming to the competition, I have reasonable personal experience with the Figo 1.5 DCT. It might be having a big engine with a DCT, but I never found anything remarkable driving it. The steering and the handling was a real turn down and the brakes were nothing to mention. To top it all, the service experience was horrible, atrocious and a nightmare.
I have never driven either the polo TSI or the Baleno RS. So my opinions are formed from the tbhp reviews. As far as I understand, even though the Polo has a good engine+gearbox combo, the handling & dynamics is not a match for the Punto. The power steering is a let down and the brakes though decent are not exceptional. It doesn't get rear disk brakes either. As for the Baleno, it doesn't have the engine or the dynamics to match either the Abarth or the Polo. If it was from another manufacturer, probably it wouldn't have even got this much attention.

PS: so why do I own a multijet punto and not the Abarth? Only because when the Abarth was launched my Punto was barely a year and about 20k kms old. I didn't even dare to take a test drive of the Abarth because I was scared I might end up doing something really really stupid

Last edited by Night Raven : 29th March 2017 at 01:03.
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Old 29th March 2017, 01:02   #27
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Default re: Fast Hatches: Baleno RS vs Polo GT TSI vs Figo 1.5 vs Abarth Punto

Quote:
Originally Posted by VKumar View Post
A hot hatch is supposed to have 3 things:
1) BIG and powerful engine because there is no replacement of displacement, and bigger the engine - sweeter is the sound it makes.


2) Decent handling with a strong build. Decent handling because I don't want to crash into the wall while cornering, and strong build - in case I end up crashing into the wall

Agreeing, most cars on this list can be sorted with a simple suspension swap.

3) Manual gearbox - no matter how much high tech, quick or fool proof your automatic dabba (box?) is; that absolute sense of control that a manual gives, is always unmatched by an auto. No sensors can replace a human mind. I was reading on some thread how a Polo TSi will be quick to 100 even if a monkey drive it - well, I agree. But, what about the planned overtakes those we pull out full throttle or narrow hilly roads? Holding the gear in manual for as long as you wish and from whatever range. Shifting straight from fifth to second in a Honda City i-VTEC at 50 kph because you suddenly spotted a chance to overtake that long truck with traffic heading towards you - an auto can never do that.
What a massive lack of research, hot hatches are supposed to have smaller engines, because of low weight they can utilize the low power way better. The biggest engines I know in hot hatches have been 2L. Anything over that is simply too much.
Wrong, the DSG is faster than any manual out there, outright shifting, rev matching, or overtaking.

Have you driven a GT TSi? I am sure you haven't hence the Honda City reference. The minute you push the pedal to the metal in the GT TSi, it shifts from 7th at 60kmph to 3rd at the same speed, and you can overtake.
Your opinion sounds very misinformed.
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Old 29th March 2017, 05:49   #28
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Default re: Fast Hatches: Baleno RS vs Polo GT TSI vs Figo 1.5 vs Abarth Punto

Quote:
Originally Posted by H_Dogg72 View Post
My DSG rev matches bud.
In manual mode it will downshift as long as the rpm level is low enough to not over overrev the engine in the lower gear, nothing else is stopping you from downshifting. It's not a moral police gearbox that will deny downshifts if the rpm is met.
Done the downshift at corners multiple times, esp has definitely saved my bacon loads of times. But it mostly good. You won't spin out as you sughest just by downshifting. Since it rev matches, there is no jerk or wheelspin to upset the balance. And yeah, enough experiencing cornering, second set of tires at 20k kms
Have Driven a plethora of VAG platforms and drivrtrains in nearly every permutation and combination that the VAG group offers. Driven the Polo GT itself many times and have also driven the 1.6 manual Fabia before it for years. Have known that platform in all its iterations and avatars. The GT TSI simply doesn't do aggressive downshits. The manual mode just doesn't allow you to hold gear at high revs through a corner more than momentarily even if you aren't hitting the Red line. That's the reason your esp kicks in so many times. Good thing you can't turn it off in a Polo or else you would definitely spin out. Very same reason why it doesn't perform as well on a track. The manual mode does perform some decent downshift and certainly rev matches adequately enough for aggressive overtaking maneuvers not more. Learn how to use all three pedals in a manual to trail brake, rev-match while shedding speed and execute high corner entry speeds. Then you will realize where the DSG loses its magic driving fast is one thing but dancing on the limit is not something it will allow you to do, and that for me restricts the outright fun factor.

Last edited by IshaanIan : 29th March 2017 at 05:58.
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Old 29th March 2017, 06:08   #29
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Default re: Fast Hatches: Baleno RS vs Polo GT TSI vs Figo 1.5 vs Abarth Punto

Fiat Punto Abarth - 150 odd bhp, manual gearbox, stiff chassis and great suspension - whats not to like?
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Old 29th March 2017, 07:50   #30
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Default re: Fast Hatches: Baleno RS vs Polo GT TSI vs Figo 1.5 vs Abarth Punto

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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Fiat Punto Abarth - 150 odd bhp, manual gearbox, stiff chassis and great suspension - whats not to like?
2 Main problems :

- Rubbery gearshifts : Spoils the driving pleasure when you want to drive hard.

- Driving position and ergonomics : Hard to find a perfect driving position. Again a major bummer.

Also another problem is that, apparently it's not in production anymore hence you can't buy one. (Not sure of this one though).

Last edited by The Brutailer : 29th March 2017 at 07:54.
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