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Old 18th December 2006, 01:40   #16
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I do not think that is gonna happen... not that easily for sure. They have ameliorated the costs of the plant in all these decades. The royalty payment to suzuki is one of the lowest amongst all the cars. As long as there is some demand they are not going to kill this car in a hurry.

Yes, they may reposition it... the M800 may rediscover itself. If the threat from Tata's 1 lakh car and some other similar cars in the pipeline materializes by 2008 we may see a further stripped down version of the M800 competing with these cars. Maruti has the ingredients in hand to most easily fight this new segment if and when it comes up. M800 could be the vehicle of choice.
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Old 18th December 2006, 07:21   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Its hard to believe that the Baleno is 1/3 as fuel-efficient as the 800. I would think that the difference on any kind of roads is 50% (at best).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equus View Post
I think Ram hasnt accounted the price of petrol which has almost doubled
GTO and Equus.
Both figures: Rs. 990 and Rs. 3090 are actual measurements in the month of September 2006, with the same fuel prices.
For all interested, my comparison is between:
my 2002 Maruti 800 MPFI 12-valve 5-speed with large MRF ZVTS 145/80R12-74S radials and
my 2006 Maruti Baleno VXi with stock 14-inch alloys and Goodyear Eagle NCT5 185/65R14 radials.
No doubt, the Baleno is both quicker as well as faster than the 800,
so my Mumbai-Pune expressway travel is 2 hours and 30 min on the 800,
and 2 hours and 10 min on the Baleno VXi.

But my verdict: The 800 (12-valve 5-speed) is unbeaten on money consumption, compared to any other current car in India.

Last edited by Ram : 18th December 2006 at 07:24.
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Old 18th December 2006, 09:07   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram View Post
But my verdict: The 800 (12-valve 5-speed) is unbeaten on money consumption, compared to any other current car in India.
Am perplexed by the difference in figures... But... Totally agree with the verdict...

I also think the best Maruti 800 was that one... The 12 valve 5 speed MPFi...

Too bad they discontinued it...
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Old 18th December 2006, 10:44   #19
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There are much worse cars in the Indian Market who are claiming solidity by adding steel & saying that they are safe & giving engines that make the tractor shy. I would prefer them to close shop before they start thinking of pulling the shutters on the most successful car on indian roads.
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Old 18th December 2006, 11:03   #20
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Quote:
GTO and Equus.
Both figures: Rs. 990 and Rs. 3090 are actual measurements in the month of September 2006, with the same fuel prices.
What is the mileage you quote for both these cars?
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Old 18th December 2006, 12:52   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivam View Post
M800 should come with a big change like zen but not wth tag 800 there should 1000 or 1200
If it came with a quote saying 1000 or 1200, why wud it be called 800??!!
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Old 18th December 2006, 14:04   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
What is the mileage you quote for both these cars?
Mileage can be calculated, to calculate the cost.
I've already indicated the money I shelled out.
In both cars I only use Hindustan Petroleum "Power" fuel.

With more sedate driving, maybe I can improve the Baleno's economy,
but with sedate driving, so can the 800's economy be improved.
Her MPFI, 12-valve and overdrive fifth gear have helped, as have the higher than spec profile tires.

Kilometres per litre as a figure of merit is completely blind to time spent idling away at traffic lights, railroad crossings, etc., with the airconditioner going.
It doesn't truly account for engine revolutions per kilometre, because that depends on which gears one used, which in turn depends on the amount of traffic one drove in
and one's gearchange style which may be anywhere between boy-racer and diesel-bus-driver.

To that extent the diesel engine parameter: litres per hour of operation
is a superior figure of merit.

There's a big difference between covering one kilometer in 3rd gear (for Baleno it's 1.28:1), as opposed to in an overdrive gear(for Baleno it's 0.815:1).

A 1.6 litre engine idling under a/c load consumes more fuel than an 800 cc engine idling, begging for the a/c to be switched off. Let's just agree that the Maruti 800 is way more economical (in every modality) than the Baleno.
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Old 18th December 2006, 14:21   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravradha
Will a M800 owner ever go for M800 again?
Why not ? Our 1st M800 came in '85. Bought the 2nd one in '99. Planning to get the 3rd one sometime in '07 (for my wife, who prefers it to the Alto).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravradha
Alternatives will come at sub 2 Lacs price range
MUL can price it as a serious contender to any alternative. I believe that with the threat of the Tata 1lac car looming on the horizon, they will keep the M800 alive because it will be the cheapest solution for them - discount the price to take the competition. Developing a new car (600 cc or whatever) would be a costlier option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravradha
The cost of maintenance advantage are being provided by alternate cars
Maybe you could enlighten us about which "alternate cars" you are referring to, that are cheaper to maintain than the M800 ?
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Old 18th December 2006, 14:36   #24
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There are arguments both for and against keeping the 800 going.
Maruti has suddenly gone on a revamp spree, what with the semi-defunct MR Wagon (Estilo) already in, the new Baleno in the offing, and the revamped Wagon R already here some time back. If this is a harbinger of change in the thinking pattern of the Maruti honchos, you might even see the 800 being phased out in a couple of years time (at the earliest).

For India, Hyundai has taken a page out of Maruti's good old book and are continuing the Accent while still selling the Verna. You have the facility; you make the car; so what if its old and unsafe, people still buy them. Why would anybody want to stop selling something just because its bad for people? Its like ITC stopping sale of cigarettes! You sell 500 800's a year, and your topline goes up Rs125crores, more than the annual topline of some companies. No one in his right mind will stop such sale.

You choose the argument you prefer.
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Old 18th December 2006, 15:21   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prabuddhadg View Post
i
For India, Hyundai has taken a page out of Maruti's good old book and are continuing the Accent while still selling the Verna. You have the facility; you make the car; so what if its old and unsafe, people still buy them.
A 2006 Accent is just as good (and no safer nor more dangerous) as the one that rolled out new from the factory in 2000.
The Verna is costlier and different, better in some ways, worse in others.
So what if Verna is called Accent in some markets.

A new Octavia replaced the old one in developed world markets, but we still buy both the old Octavia and the new Octavias (called Laura in India) as new cars.

A team of car designers apply their mind and produce a good car which makes consumers happy in 1996. Yet another team of car designers (maybe even the same people) apply their collective mind and give birth to another good car in 2006.
Does the 1996 model become bad because just another was conceived of in 2006?

Will a 1957 Ford Thunderbird drive any worse in 2007, than it did back in 1957, assuming wear and tear and rust have been suitably repaired in a timely manner?

Does presence of a new kid on the block make the old one bad?
Shall we use our reason wisely instead of blindly fattening the bank accounts of the Bill Gates's of the world.
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Old 18th December 2006, 15:59   #26
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I feel that M800 will not be discontinued, the thought might have crossed minds of Maruti execs while launching Alto but considering M800 is till going strong they gonna keep producting it. One can expect some minor enhancements to body (like they did for 'New' esteem) but I see new M800 on roads for atleast 5 more years.
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Old 18th December 2006, 16:38   #27
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O.T. should this not be in the section- Indian Car Scene?

back to the topic: There was a news article in Business Standard about a month ago- I am trying to locate it- which said that Maruti will drop teh price of 800 by 40K to position it against the tata 1 lakh car. This is a very logical move by maruti and I dont see Maruti discontinuing the 800 anytime soon.

Think about it- if for about 1.5L OTR, you get the Tata car (the 1L will be the ex factory cost) and a tried and trusted M800- which would you choose- I for one would surely choose the 800. Even though the Tata car will tout its diesel powerplant as its USP, I still feel that there would be lot many takers for the M800 casue it is one of the most fuel efficient petrol cars around! Also if the engine in the tata car is that of the ACS- (indica engine/2) then the inherent NVH of that 2 pot will drive away many prospective buyers into the lap of the 800.

Last edited by himanshugoswami : 18th December 2006 at 16:48.
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Old 18th December 2006, 16:38   #28
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Never...Maruti will never stop 800s... Atleast its a pull strategy to get potential buyers to showroom (using price points) and all left to the sales guys to woo them into buying Altos, Estilos n Wagon Rs...They might meet head on with Tata`s (supposed to be 1 lakh rupee car) by slashing the price...
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Old 18th December 2006, 16:39   #29
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No right minded businessman would stop production of a '6000 units per month ' money maker. Maruti is a sensible company.
OT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supremebaleno
Planning to get the 3rd one sometime in '07 (for my wife, who prefers it to the Alto).
Be concerned about her safety and get an Alto.
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Old 18th December 2006, 18:31   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram View Post
A 2006 Accent is just as good (and no safer nor more dangerous) as the one that rolled out new from the factory in 2000.
The Verna is costlier and different, better in some ways, worse in others.
So what if Verna is called Accent in some markets.

A new Octavia replaced the old one in developed world markets, but we still buy both the old Octavia and the new Octavias (called Laura in India) as new cars.

A team of car designers apply their mind and produce a good car which makes consumers happy in 1996. Yet another team of car designers (maybe even the same people) apply their collective mind and give birth to another good car in 2006.
Does the 1996 model become bad because just another was conceived of in 2006?

Will a 1957 Ford Thunderbird drive any worse in 2007, than it did back in 1957, assuming wear and tear and rust have been suitably repaired in a timely manner?

Does presence of a new kid on the block make the old one bad?
Shall we use our reason wisely instead of blindly fattening the bank accounts of the Bill Gates's of the world.
Precisely my point. You see Ram, the world works on the philosophy that newer is more high tech and therefore better. So, in most economies the newer model sells better than the older.
Having said that, I will not even try to argue that the Maruti 800 is a good car (it may be in certain respects, like FE, low maintenance, or convenience in sourcing spares) because its only advantage is it is safer than the two wheelers that it stives to replace.
For a family that has streched itself way beyond its comfort of buying a bike to get an 800, this car is maybe marginally safer, but apart from its affordability, there is little to be said in favour of this car.
The Accent is a different matter, and in any case, I know little about the Accent (tried it out a little, didn't enjoy driving it all that much), and it may genuinely have a future, just like Microsoft's older versions. That is what I meant when I said Maruti's good old book. See, to the seller what matters is how profitable is it to sell the product. If it sells adequately and pushes up the bottom line, why not sell it?
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