Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > What Car? > Hatchbacks


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 5th February 2007, 13:38   #1
Senior - BHPian
 
shuvc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 2,895
Thanked: 283 Times
Default Old Indica LEi / New Indica DLS / New Alto LXi

Right - I will be needing a second car in a few months.

Have put down my analysis of the situation in this pretty lengthy post. Seeking comments, corrections, inputs, advise from T-BHP enabling me to decide wisely

Expectations/Requirements from the second car (small hatch) .
- Very low overall cost of ownership
- Very low on fuel bills
- Will be primarily driver driven and used by kid and parents
- Good AC
- Power steering required - in case wifey wants to drive at times
- Power windows NOT required
- Will probably keep for 5 years - at least planning on that basis
- Initially it will probably run 500kms/month. But I expect it to increase to an average of about 700kms over a 5 year period.
- 100% city use


The options

Keep Indica 2000 LEi, which I currently have. It's a 2001 model run 40K kms.
Cost of car - 0
Mileage - 9kmpl
Petrol for 5 years - 700*49*60/9 = 2,28,667. (49 = price of petrol as of date)
Maintenance - Pessimistically 20,000 per year ? = 1,00,000
Resale value after 5 years - probably 0.
Total over 5 years = 3,18,667

Concerns - It was sitting relatively idle with a used car dealer for about 1 year. Is being used recently by a relative and returning 5/6 kmpl with almost no A/C usage!! Guess it badly needs servicing. Refused to start yesterday. Heard some fuse blew. Has been replaced and running fine now. Suspension needs work. Needs a full paint job.


New Indica V2 DLS
Cost of car - 3.5*2250*60 = 4,72,500
Mileage - 14kmpl ?
Diesel for 5 years - 700*34*60/14 = 1,02,000
Maintenance - 7000 per year ? = 35,000
Resale value after 5 years - 1,00,000.
Total over 5 years = 5,09,500

Cost of car calculation : 4L OTR - 50,000 (old Indica exchange) = 3.5 L. Loan EMI per month per lakh assumed 2250. Total cost = 3.5*2250*60.
Haven't considered inflation of fuel prices as it would be approx similar for petrol and diesel.

New Alto LXi
Cost of car - 2.7*2250*60 = 3,64,500
Mileage - 14kmpl ?
Petrol for 5 years - 700*49*60/14 = 1,50,000
Maintenance - 3000 per year ? = 15,000
Resale value after 5 years - 80,000.
Total over 5 years = 4,49,500

Cost of car calculation: 3.2L OTR - 50,000 (old Indica exchange) = 2.7 L. Loan EMI per month per lakh assumed 2250. Total cost = 2.7*2250*60.

# M800 not being considered as I'd like the AC to be at least as capable as the Alto.
# Santro not considered, since petrol car ~ 4L OTR not making sense financially.
# Xeta not being considered since petrol car ~3.5L & <14kmpl not making sense financially.
# WagonR Duo not considered; LPG not available at all pumps. 4.2 OTR and overall cost is slightly more than the V2.
# Selling the Indica and getting a used zen/alto/Indica diesel is something I have tried. It's very difficult to sell it independently in the market - no buyers. Hence seems I'll HAVE to go for a new car, 'coz then I'll be able to exchange the Indica.

My decision will primarily be based on the money factor. I'd like to go for the cheapest option over 5 years. Hence would like to understand the monetary implications as accurately as possible.

Queries
- Is 1L over 5 years too high for a 6 year old Indica petrol maintenance costs ?
- Can one expect a mileage of 14kmpl from a new Indica diesel ?
- Can one expect a mileage of 14kmpl from a new Alto ?
- Is 35000 too low a maintenance figure for an Indica diesel over 5 years ?
- Is 15000 too low a maintenance figure for an Indica diesel over 5 years ?
- Is the per Lakh emi around 2250 for 5 years ? Or is it more ?
- Any other point that I have missed out which would have a monetary impact ?


To conclude, considering my assumptions being more or less correct -
Alto - I'll be spending 1.3 L extra for the Lxi; losing out on space & comfort for parents, but possibly the most hassle free and reliable option

Indica DLS - I'll be spending 1.9 L extra; may not end up being used as much as a diesel should be; might end up spending more on maintenance than estimated in the long run; may also get a lemon if I'm unlucky !

Or should I stick to the Petrol Indica, give it a good servicing, a fresh coat of paint, nice wheels ?

Last edited by shuvc : 5th February 2007 at 13:54.
shuvc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2007, 13:45   #2
Senior - BHPian
 
himanshugoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: !!!!
Posts: 2,006
Thanked: 1,018 Times
Default

with the also, also factor in a Rs. 20K exchange bonus that Maruti is offering.

Y dont you also consider the Wagon R Duo if LPG infrastructure is in place in ur city.

OF your current choices, I would say teh Also is the best bet for you.
himanshugoswami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2007, 13:58   #3
Senior - BHPian
 
shuvc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 2,895
Thanked: 283 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
with the also, also factor in a Rs. 20K exchange bonus that Maruti is offering.

Y dont you also consider the Wagon R Duo if LPG infrastructure is in place in ur city.
Dealer mentioned only 50% insurance free + corp discount of around 2/3 K. Are they giving exchange bonus for non-Maruti cars ?

Edited and added reason for not considering WagonR in the original post.
shuvc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2007, 14:07   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
iraghava's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bhaiyyaland
Posts: 8,028
Thanked: 154 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
The options

Keep Indica 2000 LEi, which I currently have. It's a 2001 model run 40K kms.
Cost of car - 0
Mileage - 9kmpl
Petrol for 5 years - 700*49*60/9 = 2,28,667. (49 = price of petrol as of date)
Maintenance - Pessimistically 20,000 per year ? = 1,00,000
Resale value after 5 years - probably 0.
Total over 5 years = 3,18,667

Concerns - It was sitting relatively idle with a used car dealer for about 1 year. Is being used recently by a relative and returning 5/6 kmpl with almost no A/C usage!! Guess it badly needs servicing. Refused to start yesterday. Heard some fuse blew. Has been replaced and running fine now. Suspension needs work. Needs a full paint job.
Shuvc - You forgot to add the cost of servicing, suspension & the paint job if you want to keep the car. My guess would be:

Servicing: 5-6k (considering your description of the car's state)
Suspension: 20k
Pain Job: 20-30k (depending on quality & workshop used)

This would jack up the car's price by about another 60k-odd.
iraghava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2007, 14:13   #5
Senior - BHPian
 
himanshugoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: !!!!
Posts: 2,006
Thanked: 1,018 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
Dealer mentioned only 50% insurance free + corp discount of around 2/3 K. Are they giving exchange bonus for non-Maruti cars ?
Yes, at least here in bangy, non maruti cars are eligible for exchange bonus. for maruti cars (Esp. the esteem and baleno) they call it loyalty bonus/upgrade bonus
himanshugoswami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2007, 14:25   #6
Senior - BHPian
 
shuvc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 2,895
Thanked: 283 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
Shuvc - You forgot to add the cost of servicing, suspension & the paint job if you want to keep the car. My guess would be:

Servicing: 5-6k (considering your description of the car's state)
Suspension: 20k
Pain Job: 20-30k (depending on quality & workshop used)

This would jack up the car's price by about another 60k-odd.
Hmmm . I had considered around 20K to refurbish her within the 1L maintenance cost over 5 years. This is way off my calculations. Let's assume an initial cost of 50K instead of 20K to refurbish her. That would take the 5 yr maintenance cost to 1.3 L .. but, after this initial work, will I still require 20K per year to maintain her ?
shuvc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2007, 17:02   #7
Senior - BHPian
 
akroy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posts: 2,414
Thanked: 29 Times
Default

Shuvc

if it is just for city use, blindly go for AltoLXi. Not that I own one but... (but I bought it for my highway use!! anyway)

Now coming to your point:
1) Frankly speaking 'SPACE' is a very relative term. Every non-electric car which run on 4 wheels can seat in 4 adults comfortably. I am sure for your use, space is not a constraint. parents / kids city ride so no issues.
2) As it is driver driven, all the more it is important for you to go for a high mileage car which at the worse case should give 14kmpl.(Mind you, I never got 14kmpl, my lowest so far is 15.67kmpl on my first fill and highest 21kmpl)....
3) It will be very good car to move around in city and also easy for ladies to handle (in case your wife use it)...
4) I dont think it makes sense investing on a diesel indica for city use like kolkata, where you have to think of idling everytime you start-stop the engine (your driver might not take that care) plus other city constraints...eventually might incur more costs...

plus Alto will always have the good resale / exchange value....

My 2 cents
Abhi
akroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2007, 17:25   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
shuvc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 2,895
Thanked: 283 Times
Default

Thanks Abhi.
A few of my friends here report 15-16kmpl for the Alto , but without AC. They say with AC the mileage drops by about 2kmpl. Any comments on that ?

How much of a difference does the power steering make in the Alto ?

EMI/Lakh/Month has been quoted at 2149/- for 5 years. This scheme does not have any finance discount. With finance discount of 3.5% it's 2250ish.
shuvc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2007, 17:48   #9
Senior - BHPian
 
akroy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posts: 2,414
Thanked: 29 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
Thanks Abhi.
A few of my friends here report 15-16kmpl for the Alto , but without AC. They say with AC the mileage drops by about 2kmpl. Any comments on that ?
Not really 2kmpl, around a km or so but if driven carefully it you can almost nullify that as well...infact W/O AC it should give you about 17kmpl if driven properly, stop engine at big signals (i mean basically following the handbook, changing gear at proper ratios)...I am copy-pasting mileage details of my car where i trcked every drop of the fuel in an excel, so that i can analyse...hopefully you can also analyse from it...if u want the full excel send me your email id....[FONT=Arial]Petrol (Lit)[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Distance (Km)[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Average (Kmpl)[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Cost on Petrol[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Comments[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Date[/FONT][FONT=Arial]16.59[/FONT][FONT=Arial]260[/FONT][FONT=Arial]15.67209162[/FONT][FONT=Arial]840.4494[/FONT][FONT=Arial]City Ride[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Feb-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]21.7[/FONT][FONT=Arial]376[/FONT][FONT=Arial]17.32718894[/FONT][FONT=Arial]1099.322[/FONT][FONT=Arial]City + Horsley Hills(50%AC)[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Feb-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]11.79[/FONT][FONT=Arial]171[/FONT][FONT=Arial]14.50381679[/FONT][FONT=Arial]597.2814[/FONT][FONT=Arial]City ride + 1st Service[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Mar-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]26.61[/FONT][FONT=Arial]519[/FONT][FONT=Arial]19.50394589[/FONT][FONT=Arial]1348.0626[/FONT][FONT=Arial]City + Yercaud(50%AC)[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Apr-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]25.66[/FONT][FONT=Arial]478[/FONT][FONT=Arial]18.62821512[/FONT][FONT=Arial]1299.9356[/FONT][FONT=Arial]City + Yelagiri (AC)[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Apr-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]15.28[/FONT][FONT=Arial]263[/FONT][FONT=Arial]17.21204188[/FONT][FONT=Arial]774.0848[/FONT][FONT=Arial]City Ride[/FONT][FONT=Arial]May-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]15.77[/FONT][FONT=Arial]281[/FONT][FONT=Arial]17.81864299[/FONT][FONT=Arial]798.9082[/FONT][FONT=Arial]City + Kdam (AC)[/FONT][FONT=Arial]May-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]29.13[/FONT][FONT=Arial]560[/FONT][FONT=Arial]19.22416752[/FONT][FONT=Arial]1475.7258[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Coorg Trip[/FONT][FONT=Arial]May-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]15.61[/FONT][FONT=Arial]226[/FONT][FONT=Arial]14.47789878[/FONT][FONT=Arial]860.8915[/FONT][FONT=Arial]City + 2nd Service[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Jun-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]21.46[/FONT][FONT=Arial]403[/FONT][FONT=Arial]18.77912395[/FONT][FONT=Arial]1183.519[/FONT][FONT=Arial]City + Hogkal Falls(50%AC)[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Jun-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]29.42[/FONT][FONT=Arial]586[/FONT][FONT=Arial]19.91842284[/FONT][FONT=Arial]1622.513[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Wayanad Trip (50%AC)[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Jul-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]17.02[/FONT][FONT=Arial]326[/FONT][FONT=Arial]19.15393655[/FONT][FONT=Arial]938.653[/FONT][FONT=Arial]City Ride, K&N, NandiHills[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Aug-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]18.27[/FONT][FONT=Arial]301[/FONT][FONT=Arial]16.47509579[/FONT][FONT=Arial]1007.5905[/FONT][FONT=Arial]80%AC, Sangam Trip[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Sep-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]62[/FONT][FONT=Arial]1055[/FONT][FONT=Arial]17.01612903[/FONT][FONT=Arial]3419.3[/FONT][FONT=Arial]60%AC, Kodai, Madurai, Reliance[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Sep-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]6.92[/FONT][FONT=Arial]134[/FONT][FONT=Arial]19.36416185[/FONT][FONT=Arial]381.638[/FONT][FONT=Arial]City ride, 3rd service, Magnatac[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Sep-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]110[/FONT][FONT=Arial]2063[/FONT][FONT=Arial]18.75454545[/FONT][FONT=Arial]5626.5[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Blr - Kolkata(Rel, Speed), 90%AC[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Sep-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]29[/FONT][FONT=Arial]460[/FONT][FONT=Arial]15.86206897[/FONT][FONT=Arial]1483.35[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Suri Trip, City Ride, 80%AC, IOC-Salt Lake, adulterated[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Sep-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]94.1[/FONT][FONT=Arial]1751[/FONT][FONT=Arial]18.60786397[/FONT][FONT=Arial]4705[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Kol return (except last fill), 100%AC[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Oct-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]23.24[/FONT][FONT=Arial]439[/FONT][FONT=Arial]18.88984509[/FONT][FONT=Arial]1281.686[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Last fill-Nellore, service, city ride, 70%AC[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Oct-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]11.14[/FONT][FONT=Arial]186[/FONT][FONT=Arial]16.69658887[/FONT][FONT=Arial]614.371[/FONT][FONT=Arial]City Ride, 1 month[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Nov-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]17.36[/FONT][FONT=Arial]291[/FONT][FONT=Arial]16.76267281[/FONT][FONT=Arial]918.6912[/FONT][FONT=Arial]City Ride, 1 month[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Dec-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]16.96[/FONT][FONT=Arial]334[/FONT][FONT=Arial]19.69339623[/FONT][FONT=Arial]897.5232[/FONT][FONT=Arial]City Ride, Kgiri Dam[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Dec-06[/FONT][FONT=Arial]20.84[/FONT][FONT=Arial]383[/FONT][FONT=Arial]18.378119[/FONT][FONT=Arial]1102.8528[/FONT][FONT=Arial]City Ride, Denkanikota drive[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Jan-07[/FONT]

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
How much of a difference does the power steering make in the Alto ?
Very much! power steering is a gem for Alto...in Kol traffic that is the thing you will relish the most...I suggest you always go for the powersteering alto...

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
EMI/Lakh/Month has been quoted at 2149/- for 5 years. This scheme does not have any finance discount. With finance discount of 3.5% it's 2250ish.
I bought my car in Feb2006. Paying EMI 2058 / lakh for 5 year loan. Cant say anything more!!!

Abhi

Last edited by akroy : 5th February 2007 at 17:50.
akroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2007, 17:49   #10
Senior - BHPian
 
akroy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posts: 2,414
Thanked: 29 Times
Default

Ohh no didnt realize that it will showup so badly...anyway send me / PM your email id, i will send the details across...

Abhi
akroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2007, 18:09   #11
Senior - BHPian
 
iraghava's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bhaiyyaland
Posts: 8,028
Thanked: 154 Times
Default

AKROY - You can still correct the above post by using the edit function.
iraghava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2007, 20:18   #12
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 144
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Wow.. you have done a detailed analysis already. I was in a similar situation as yours a few months back. But, I'm strictly against a loan (except housing loan), and would rather prefer an outright purchase, even if that means a longer wait. So, I bought a 5 year old Zen for 1.35L. Anyways, about your questions, here's what I feel -


- Is 1L over 5 years too high for a 6 year old Indica petrol maintenance costs ?
No, it's too low. As you need a suspension and paint-job outright, you'll probably have to spend about Rs. 20-25,000 right away. Also, from what I've heard, an old Indica WILL bring tears to your eyes. Things may have changed with newer and better models, but keeping your 2000 model Indica is a NO, NO.

- Can one expect a mileage of 14kmpl from a new Indica diesel ?
Yes, one can.

- Can one expect a mileage of 14kmpl from a new Alto ?
Yes, one can. It'll be something like 16-18 if your driver is good.

- Is 35000 too low a maintenance figure for an Indica diesel over 5 years ?
No, it's quite close to my estimate.

- Is 15000 too low a maintenance figure for an Alto over 5 years ?
No, it's quite close to my estimate.

- Is the per Lakh emi around 2250 for 5 years ? Or is it more ?
The ROI works out to be 13% for this EMI. You can surely bargain for lower, since it's a new car.

- Any other point that I have missed out which would have a monetary impact ?
One point of a non-monetary impact is the frustration that you (or your family members) get when your car is in the mechanic's garage, in a useless state. Imagine going out to a night movie, and having to face a car-breakdown on the way back (on the way to movie is also equally frustrating).

So, my choice would be to go for the Alto, and live a peaceful life.
amu1983 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2007, 22:30   #13
Senior - BHPian
 
1100D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Calcutta
Posts: 4,179
Thanked: 2,360 Times
Default

I would suggest going with the option 1. You can go ahead and restore the car, I know someone who can give it that just new look (I have seen them doing old esteems and it becomes very difficult to tell). Why I suggest this is probably because you are going to get too low a value on this car even if u sell it now. The residual money can be kept in the bank as an added initiative when u upgrade your baleno.

You have already done the mathematics of the resale values and shell out from the pocket. IMHO dont spend too much on the second car. On the other hand the Indica 2000 was infact a fun to drive machine and after being used to it, I doubt, even if your wifey likes driving the Alto.

So give it that turbo red look and then surprise the turbo's by outsmarting them.

Anyway we can always talk and I can take u to the aforementioned place that does rally cars where my oldie is getting a once over.
1100D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2007, 00:19   #14
Team-BHP Support
 
Zappo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 5,653
Thanked: 2,013 Times
Default

Yes... I think 1100D has a point... If you can find that mechanic/garage that can restore your Indica Petrol to a new state (there are many everywhere... just need to locate) with an approximate cost of 20-25k that may be a better bet as of now. You do not spend money on paint job and stuff unless it is really required.

After spending the 20k or so watch for 6-8 months. If you feel "cholbe" then just stick to it. Its always cheaper than an outright purchase. Anyhow considering that it will be used for city runs you do not fear that "getting stuck in a deserted road" thing. Moreover Indicas may creak and groan but I do not think they absolutely conk off... provided they get the timely maintenance.
Zappo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2007, 10:36   #15
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bangalore / Madras
Posts: 1,980
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Keep Indica 2000 LEi, which I currently have. It's a 2001 model run 40K kms.
Maintenance - Pessimistically 20,000 per year ? = 1,00,000
Suspension needs work. Needs a full paint job.

Queries
- Is 1L over 5 years too high for a 6 year old Indica petrol maintenance costs ?

Or should I stick to the Petrol Indica, give it a good servicing, a fresh coat of paint, nice wheels ?[/quote]

shuvc, the 1 lakh figure over 5 years is too high.

I'd say stick to the petrol Indica, give it a good servicing and try and restore it to good shape. I suggest a TASC for the regular servicing and suspension work.
hrag is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Indica V2 DLS -Indica V2 DLS - Electricals falling apart - 57,000 km update cyberwhizs Long-Term Ownership Reviews 5 25th April 2013 13:04
Indica DLS / DLS TURBO / DICOR?.....What BUY? musicmanaman Hatchbacks 20 8th May 2010 19:05
tubeless tyres for Indica LEi-V2 shapath Tyre & Alloy wheel Section 2 7th September 2007 06:28
Indica NA DLS vs Turbo DLS vs Turbo DLG greenhorn Hatchbacks 10 5th May 2007 17:20


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 20:18.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks