Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > What Car? > Hatchbacks


View Poll Results: the most soupable hot hatch
swift petrol 74 25.26%
getz diesel crdi 34 11.60%
palio 1.6 50 17.06%
swift diesel 38 12.97%
getz petrol 4 1.37%
palio diesel 7 2.39%
skoda fabia 7 2.39%
old zen 50 17.06%
chevy srv 10 3.41%
other small hatch - 800, alto, santro, uva, reva, meva :-) 7 2.39%
yet to be launched or import a sport hatch 12 4.10%
Voters: 293. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th April 2008, 20:26   #121
BHPian
 
jassi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 980
Thanked: 11 Times
Smile

completely understand psycho - which is why i am thinking if a primary safely modded car (eg peted getz or rd601 + ffe + cai swift petrol) and a secondary all out mods car (eg zen/esteem) makes sense.

BTW - can a ffe be done on a diesel vgt (eg getz/verna vgt crdi) - i don't think anyone on this forum has yet confirmed it ??
jassi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2008, 20:53   #122
BHPian
 
TomRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cochin-Bangalore
Posts: 332
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jassi View Post
BTW - can a ffe be done on a diesel vgt (eg getz/verna vgt crdi) - i don't think anyone on this forum has yet confirmed it ??
I checked with automec. They have not done yet.

Quoting from their email.

"We have not developed free flow exhausts for diesels. As for teh Getz and Swift CRDis, there is little that can be done, that too after the turbocharger. The changes might yield some performance benefit, but then it will have to be done on the car itself, as we have got no enquiries for these cars."

"all the development work is done here at our workshop in Mumbai. So, unless you make a trip to Mumbai, there is little chance of getting it done elsewhere."

Last edited by TomRider : 17th April 2008 at 20:54.
TomRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2008, 20:58   #123
BHPian
 
jassi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 980
Thanked: 11 Times
Smile

besides i have heard that diesels don't sound that tasty after a ffe if an ffe or even a minor exhaust change is possible in the first place!!
jassi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2008, 21:07   #124
BHPian
 
TomRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cochin-Bangalore
Posts: 332
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Our Ambassador had an insanely loud exhaust, back home.

I have seen a couple of diesel cars with a good exhaust note. Even I am planning to go for a Getz D of Swift D after coming back to India.
TomRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2008, 21:12   #125
Senior - BHPian
 
greenhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: TN-14
Posts: 6,838
Thanked: 1,318 Times
Default

I Believe some of the tourist buses I've seen ( or rather, heard ) run some kind of FFE, judging by their exhaust notes. I guess it is do-able after all

Last edited by greenhorn : 17th April 2008 at 21:14.
greenhorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2008, 21:13   #126
BHPian
 
jassi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 980
Thanked: 11 Times
Smile

loud exhaust notes are not always good - i was referring to something with lot of bass in it and not actually that loud but pleasant to an auto-enthusiast

I haven't actually heard of any diesel with an ffe so far given that accent crdis have been there for quite some time, plus we have the mail from automech saying nothing much can be done for getz crdi or swift ddis
jassi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2008, 22:29   #127
Senior - BHPian
 
v1p3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BLR - chasing cars...
Posts: 4,836
Thanked: 26 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
BOSS, guess you could just add a BOV and an intercooler to any Turbo? I'm afraid not unless you understand engine design and thermodynamics!

Guess we should not throw all the words that we see / read onto the forum without a proper understanding of the function. No offense though!
I'm sorry, but you CAN add a BOV and intercooler to almost any turbo setup, if it doesn't already have one. I say almost because I cannot think of one where this addition is not applicable. Guess we should also do a little more research. No offense here either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatienceWins View Post
Its not easy as it sounds. These engines/ parts are designed by experts and all the parts need to be in sync to perform optimally. If understanding the technology and replicating or enhancing it was easy, car manufactures would not be lending technology from others. I would recommend not to get into experiments.
Nothing venture, nothing won. If no one wanted to experiment, we'd still all be riding horses and living under trees. Actually make that walking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawan View Post
problem is the cost of a getz and petes it is going to work out costly if i am right around 8l odd.

rather a zen with a honda mill like a b series motor for say around 4-5l including car which makes more sense but again some money should be spent on chassis and handling mods like better suspension and a roll cage.
should make the car fast some 250+ bhp per tonne.but again time problem with the zen build is quite sure.
Of all people, you should know that Zens and plans for cheap and fast build are just that, plans. And I'd like to see a B series engine actually fit and run in a Zen.
v1p3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2008, 06:50   #128
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,589
Thanked: 454 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
I'm sorry, but you CAN add a BOV and intercooler to almost any turbo setup, if it doesn't already have one. I say almost because I cannot think of one where this addition is not applicable. Guess we should also do a little more research.
Hi, can you add a BOV setup to the Indica/Indigo 1.4litre? I'd doubt that.

A BOV is added where the turbo develops more boost than required by the engine, and the BOV is opened to save the Turbo from the excess pressure build up. This happens more so in high revving engines where the sudden drop in engine rpm will leave the turbo in full boost and the engine does not require that boost..hence the BOV is opened to release to atmosphere.

Not all turbos need to have a BOV..but thats my opinion...lets explore a little more on that!!

A BOV adds more cost to the turbo build too.
headers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2008, 14:27   #129
Senior - BHPian
 
Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,042
Thanked: 95 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
A BOV is added where the turbo develops more boost than required by the engine, and the BOV is opened to save the Turbo from the excess pressure build up. This happens more so in high revving engines where the sudden drop in engine rpm will leave the turbo in full boost and the engine does not require that boost..hence the BOV is opened to release to atmosphere.
1) A BOV is to release pressure when the the throttle plate is closed as it would build a sudden back surge to the turbo which could lead to a sudden stoppage in the spinning of the blades. This could cause the turbine shaft to shear. hence the need of a BOV to release the excessive boost.

2) Boost pressure is maintained by a Wastegate that lets exhaust gasses bypass the exhaust turbine hence reducing the amount of boost created.

3) You can add it to any sort of Turbo application, a bit difficult in diesels as they do not create vaccum to release the boost when you release the accelerator. You may need to use an electrical or mechanical system to activate the same.
Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2008, 14:46   #130
Senior - BHPian
 
kutlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,126
Thanked: 194 Times
Default

psycho chetta, please explain point3.
you mean to say that diesel 'accelerator' is actually an actuator that put more fuel to the air and hence no 'plate' kind of things in petrol where the air (or is it mixture?) is contolled. Since there is no plate to shut of the supply necessitating the need for a sytem to control the "air hammer" effect?
kutlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2008, 15:10   #131
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: KL
Posts: 4,680
Thanked: 3,508 Times
Default

Psycho, in Petrol engines when the throttle plate shuts the boost pressure is vented through the BOV. So in Diesel engines where there is no throttle plate a BOV is not necessary, or is it?

And what are the benefits of installing a BOV in a Diesel?
Sankar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2008, 16:39   #132
Senior - BHPian
 
v1p3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BLR - chasing cars...
Posts: 4,836
Thanked: 26 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
Hi, can you add a BOV setup to the Indica/Indigo 1.4litre? I'd doubt that.
Yes you can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers
A BOV is added where the turbo develops more boost than required by the engine, and the BOV is opened to save the Turbo from the excess pressure build up. This happens more so in high revving engines where the sudden drop in engine rpm will leave the turbo in full boost and the engine does not require that boost..hence the BOV is opened to release to atmosphere.
If you drive a diesel hard and powershift, you will hear a rattling/krr-krr sound. Most people think it is clutch play of some kind. That is actually backpressure hitting the impeller of the turbine and causing it to sometimes shift on the shaft, scraping the inside of the housing. As you can imagine, on a turbine wheel spinning at 200,000 rpm, this is not healthy. More so if you do it often. This can easily be avoided with the use of a BOV. Other advantages include much quicker spool-up between shifts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers
Not all turbos need to have a BOV..but thats my opinion...lets explore a little more on that!!

A BOV adds more cost to the turbo build too
Not all of us need CRDxs or tubeless tyres or better braking, but we buy them for the superior technology, which may translate into long term savings and safety, sometimes at the cost of a higher immediate purchase price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Psycho, in Petrol engines when the throttle plate shuts the boost pressure is vented through the BOV. So in Diesel engines where there is no throttle plate a BOV is not necessary, or is it?
A BOV is necessary everywhere. Using a throttle plate, it can be actuated via a pressure difference. In a diesel, there is no TP, and thus you cannot use a mechanical actuator. You need a throttle-based or clutch-based solenoid actuator. This has been done abroad. HKS sells a diesel BOV which is rather expensive. quicker spool-up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar
And what are the benefits of installing a BOV in a Diesel?
The advantages are the same, longer turbo life,
v1p3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2008, 17:40   #133
BHPian
 
vabs78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Pune, India
Posts: 551
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
If you drive a diesel hard and powershift, you will hear a rattling/krr-krr sound. Most people think it is clutch play of some kind. That is actually backpressure hitting the impeller of the turbine and causing it to sometimes shift on the shaft, scraping the inside of the housing.
Question.
If there is no throttle plate then how this happens?
How is air quantity regulated in diesel?
vabs78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2008, 21:03   #134
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,589
Thanked: 454 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
That is actually backpressure hitting the impeller of the turbine and causing it to sometimes shift on the shaft, scraping the inside of the housing. As you can imagine, on a turbine wheel spinning at 200,000 rpm, this is not healthy.
I agree to the purpose of a BOV..but cant imagine the impeller touching any part of the turbocharger as it will definitely break into pieces..

Also, agreee that the wastegate does the basic function of controlling the boost hence the BOV is not necessary!

It may be good to have one for crazy hard driving individuals like me..but if the turbo does not break, something else will: LOL
cheers:
headers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2008, 22:48   #135
Senior - BHPian
 
Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,042
Thanked: 95 Times
Default

Well just imagine a diesel turbo spinning and producing boost even when you lift off and the engine getting excessive air and not receiving not enough fuel to support what do you think happens?

There is a definite chance of a knock. now imagine that you have a chance to relieve the pressure from the system and allow the engine to breathe easily.

Next imagine the diesel engine dropping revs and not being able to use the boost that has been built up and the wastegate opens to relieve pressure that slow
Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX swiftnfurious Long-Term Ownership Reviews 70 13th July 2017 10:35
Highly-souped up 99 Honda CBR FireBlade, sale, Blr netchef Shifting gears 16 16th January 2008 12:20
Fully Souped Up Zen For Sale wacky Shifting gears 4 12th February 2007 22:33
Souped up Maruti Gypsy @ Ambey Valley Airstrip sinner Shifting gears 4 11th April 2006 11:00


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 23:10.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks