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Old 21st December 2008, 10:32   #16
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I give reason why I (16 years experienced newbie) would prefer a so called "toy car" than "real car".

Excerpts from my introduction:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/introd...-65-posts.html (My introduction after 65 posts)

"Last month in my current home (I shifted here in 2002), all of a sudden, parking problems appeared. My adjoining home was vacant for last 6 years but now the landlord gave it on rent and not to one family. There were two, one has Wagon-R and the other one has an Accent.

So, as usual in Delhi, parking limits/boundaries defined, and the outcome – I cannot park my Civic outside my home. So, somehow arranged to park my Civic in my office building’s basement parking (just half kilometer from my home).

Now, I am looking for a new small car i10/Santro/Wagon-R/Estilo/Spark, etc. etc."
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Old 21st December 2008, 10:32   #17
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Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
That's so not true

Is this like going up the toughness level in a PS2 Game or what? The more experienced the driver is, the more powerful (or big or whatever) his car should be?

I'm sorry if I have misunderstood your post but this is what I have gathered from 1st time car driver-owner friends of mine,

* Yes, they want to buy a hatchback to start with due to ease of driving and parking
* They don't want to buy a new sedan, coz they are not confident of driving them with ease in city
* Some buy a second hand sedan @ new hatchback prices. They don't seem to mind a few dents they might make in a used car

Mind you am using the word HATCHBACK here. Which is from M800 to Fabia. Whether it's a A or B segment car is mostly dependant on the budget I feel.

PS: And what is this talk about experienced drivers? I guess a decent percentage of them would have started to drive in their dad/friends/cousins M800, Santro, alto etc.
There are very small hatchbacks and small hatchbacks. If you are planning to own a car for 5 years in the future. Then you will not fell happy purchasing those very small cars designed within a budget and that too they are designed for a generation much older than the present.

As I said before look ahead and choose, It gonna be a super fast ride.
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Old 21st December 2008, 10:36   #18
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Originally Posted by mukeshgoel View Post
I give reason why I (16 years experienced newbie) would prefer a so called "toy car" than "real car".
.....

Now, I am looking for a new small car i10/Santro/Wagon-R/Estilo/Spark, etc. etc."

Well. again, your decision is hampered by parking space.....

Well even that state of delhi is fast gonna change after the rule comes into place.

Living in Chennai, the commissioner of police has announced parking restrictions all over the city. Something similar to what you see abroad. More parking space will be allotted and people have to learn to walk in busy roads filled with malls when we go to shop.
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Old 21st December 2008, 10:37   #19
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Thanks for cheering up our Sunday mornings with your post ritz830, I for one still can't wipe that smile off my face. Your supreme confidence astounds me.
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Old 21st December 2008, 10:41   #20
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
You mean UV-A/Getz/Palio offer more VFM than 800/Alto/Santro. Sorry boss, I think I am simply losing the plot here. It is like watching the movie "No Smoking".
@samurai-Actually, this thread is like watching bits and pieces of it , in no particular order, with Chinese dubbing and Bulgarian subtitles

@ritz- Are you saying,that the UVA, Getz and Palio stile 1.1 offer better driveability in the city than a Santro/Spark/Wagon R or even alto?
Please clarify that first.
I have driven all of them, and found the lower segment cars had better low end response(useful in city) .
To be honest the 3 cars you hold up as paragons of automotive excellence are all notorious for abysmally poor low end engine response.

Also, the 0-100 gives us a good idea of what the power to weight ratio is like, how well the gear ratios are spaced,what sort of rev range produces useful power, and how effective a car is, at putting down the power/torque the engine makes.
translate that into real world- it helps you get away from annoying traffic quicker. Very essential in a city.

PS- I'm a 10 yr experienced newbie who drives B/C/SUV segment vehicles on a daily basis. I miss my M800.
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Old 21st December 2008, 10:50   #21
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The U-VA Getz or my fav Palio give more space per car (did i sound like tata) and are graet cars, its when what we believe in becomes stronger than facts around us. Like I work for a company so my products are always going to be superior than the competition, even if the market says otherwise and my bitter rival is selling more than me, even though my product is better. It just boils down to one small thing I have not been able to communicate my product better.
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Old 21st December 2008, 10:51   #22
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Maybe your are from PR
Quote:
Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
I am not a sales man.
I would always consider & suggest NHC as first car.
Quote:
I know most of the first time buyers are newbies in driving. They thing that i10/santro/estillo/wagonR/Spark are THE cars for the city, and are very easy to drive.
There are hardly 30 different cars in the market and half a million people buy these every year. So there will thousands of repetitions.
Quote:
Also, you got irritated by your friends who already own a car because they don't even care to talk about these cars with interest.
There are lots of drivers with decade long experince who drive these small cars.
Quote:
These small cars are designed to meet the needs of a new driver.
No fear factor - people buy cars based on:
  • their budget
  • after sales service
So if U-VA comes at the price of Alto with A.S.S same as Maruti, then GM's dream of replacing all Altos with U-VAs will come true.
Quote:
In other words, they have capitalized on the fear factor of the newbies.
I think my post highlights more valuable points. I would suggest, if you are a new driver, drive in slow lane. And if the car is new, then drive within RPM limits suggested by manufacturer.
Quote:
Hope this post highlighted some valuable points. And please drive slowly when you are in a new car. Its tough to drive slow, but easy to drive fast.
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Old 21st December 2008, 10:56   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
There are very small hatchbacks and small hatchbacks. If you are planning to own a car for 5 years in the future. Then you will not fell happy purchasing those very small cars designed within a budget and that too they are designed for a generation much older than the present.

As I said before look ahead and choose, It gonna be a super fast ride.
i10, Santro & Wagon-R - They seat 4 people in comfort. IMHO they aren't very small HBs.

But yes, I am not comfortable driving them in Highways as I would in my Ikon. But how many people take the highways?

Golden Quad, parallelogram, triangle might all come..but don't imagine the German Autobhans and American Interstate highways to be coming to India so soon that people should dump the so called very small HBs and be prepared and buy a SMALL HB

A friend bought Alto Lxi @ 3.05L On-Road. As per you words, he would need to shell out 1L more for the U-VA, which is 3 months salary for many in India. He was on a budget and is happy with the Alto. He just doesn't care about the super fast ride in future.
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Old 21st December 2008, 11:51   #24
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Know-how, Made-easy, Over-simplified or simply the answers to all your questions

When we talk about torque its a grossly misunderstood experience. The very small hatchback have very good low-rpm torque, but serve no purpose in the city. U-VA/Gets/Palio is claimed to have poor low-rpm torque.

Basically, this extra torque is an addiction whichquenches the ego of a person while he is in a traffic jam. (In India, there is no scarcity of such people) Going through those small gapes and overtaking those bigger cars in a traffic jam wont take you any more faster. Not even 5 minutes earlier. I have seen lots of small cars which jerk ahead after they see the green lights, but in the longer stretch they obviously fall back.

A car is supposed to commute a person from pt A to B with comfort, safety and luxury. Gets/U-VA/Palio are unique kind of small cars which offer ultimate comfort to the driver(not even Swift), and makes the city driving look like a cruise, a magic carpet ride.

If you say many are stuck with a budget i.e 3.5 lakhs. Go for the A-star which offers similar kind of experience. And also the added torque which serves no purpose as I said before. A-star can handle city and highways fluently. Also FYI. Palio is 3.5 lakhs and it offers a flying carpet feel. it does not have the jerky unwanted low end torque which anyway has no purpose.
And talking about SUV. That is a different segment, and even there, one can find cars which are designed very bad. But people buy them still and claim them as SUV, but they are actually MPV (multi-purpose vehicles). They dont offer you the luxury or comfort of driving, but again the jerky low-end torque ride just to fool the customers.
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Old 21st December 2008, 11:59   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
Know-how, Made-easy, Over-simplified or simply the answers to all your questions

They dont offer you the luxury or comfort of driving, but again the jerky low-end torque ride just to fool the customers.
Oh Cripes!!!!!!! I have been fooled!
What shall I do now, O learned one?
I promise to give up my ego, and become a better person.
No More "zip" drive for me.
Shall I go and buy a Magic carpet with no low end torque, less mileage, large turning circle, poor visibility and mediocre after sales support?
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Old 21st December 2008, 12:08   #26
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Ha ha, another gem of a thread from the Chennai small car expert. LOL.

After the movement to ban M800/Alto ended up being locked by the Mods, now the Enlightened One (TM) has started another movement to ban VSHBs aka WagonR, Estilo, Spark, Santro, i10 etc.

Thanks for enlightening all of us as to what are Real cars and what are toys. The only thing tbhp was missing was the coming of the car-prophet and now that you are here, we will be all fine. Thanks.

Only one small doubt, if I may have the temerity to ask you : Given your dislike for such toys, why would you choose a Spark as your ride, as mentioned by you in your "What car?" thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ritz830
I have chosen spark, and wanna emphasis that again.
Note : VSHB = Very Small Hatch Backs aka toys.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 21st December 2008 at 12:12.
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Old 21st December 2008, 12:23   #27
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I've read every single post;i'm having a blast.
1- What's with the thread title, i'd assume you were a salesman
2- What's your point? i'm still unclear. After driving baleno & swift in delhi's traffic, i love driving my grandmother's 1.1 alto, not because of the power but because of the maneuverability it offers. I guess i've made a wrong choice
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Old 21st December 2008, 12:27   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
When we talk about torque its a grossly misunderstood experience. The very small hatchback have very good low-rpm torque, but serve no purpose in the city. U-VA/Gets/Palio is claimed to have poor low-rpm torque.

Basically, this extra torque is an addiction whichquenches the ego of a person while he is in a traffic jam. (In India, there is no scarcity of such people) Going through those small gapes and overtaking those bigger cars in a traffic jam wont take you any more faster. Not even 5 minutes earlier. I have seen lots of small cars which jerk ahead after they see the green lights, but in the longer stretch they obviously fall back.

A car is supposed to commute a person from pt A to B with comfort, safety and luxury. Gets/U-VA/Palio are unique kind of small cars which offer ultimate comfort to the driver(not even Swift), and makes the city driving look like a cruise, a magic carpet ride.

If you say many are stuck with a budget i.e 3.5 lakhs. Go for the A-star which offers similar kind of experience. And also the added torque which serves no purpose as I said before. A-star can handle city and highways fluently. Also FYI. Palio is 3.5 lakhs and it offers a flying carpet feel. it does not have the jerky unwanted low end torque which anyway has no purpose.
And talking about SUV. That is a different segment, and even there, one can find cars which are designed very bad. But people buy them still and claim them as SUV, but they are actually MPV (multi-purpose vehicles). They dont offer you the luxury or comfort of driving, but again the jerky low-end torque ride just to fool the customers.
buddy thats what i told you earlier, every individual has different needs from his car. you are saying that the low end response is not necessary in city traffic, whereas i feel its the most important thing in cities. what use is the top end whack when you cannot move above 3rd gear in city traffic? there you need instant response to shoot into a gap. even if we neglect that, low end torque makes driving much easier resulting in fewer gear changes, which is a boon in city.
you are recommending the palio since long, have you experienced fiat/tata's service and its ridiculously priced spares? what do you want buddy... the middle class buyer should spend his entire 1 month salary on the service of his car so that he gets the 'magic carpet ride'?
coming to SUVs, i personally enjoy driving the scorpio more than a santro in city. thats personal choice. it definitely offers more driving comfort and luxury than the getz and palio. also, does the palio/getz have the cosseting ride and interior space of the safari? then why not recommend scorpio/safari/innova to all? we cant do that because everybody has different budgets and requirements.
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Old 21st December 2008, 12:31   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Ha ha, another gem of a thread from the Chennai small car expert. LOL.

After the movement to ban M800/Alto ended up being locked by the Mods, now the Enlightened One (TM) has started another movement to ban VSHBs aka WagonR, Estilo, Spark, Santro, i10 etc.

Thanks for enlightening all of us as to what are Real cars and what are toys. The only thing tbhp was missing was the coming of the car-prophet and now that you are here, we will be all fine. Thanks.

Only one small doubt, if I may have the temerity to ask you : Given your dislike for such toys, why would you choose a Spark as your ride, as mentioned by you in your "What car?" thread.


Note : VSHB = Very Small Hatch Backs aka toys.

Well, I can definitely say that I have the freedom of speech here. Get your comments coming and I can reply with my valid points.

People, please dont get bogged down by those who cut and paste ideas from miscellaneous threads and prove nothing but show their inability to reason. Obviously, if one goes through the thread where MR.Superme Baleno has got his cut & paste job from. You will come to know that Spark wins over A-star in-term of sheer pricing. And my present thread is focused on future cars and their ability to provide a cruise ride.
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Old 21st December 2008, 12:36   #30
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ritz, i noticed you have two maruti 800s. for that price, you could have gone for a UVA. (UVA for 4.2L, you should be crazy not to consider this, remember?).
if you had bought the 800s long back, do you feel the 800 is not good for city? are you planning to upgrade to an UVA from the 800?
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