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Old 27th January 2009, 15:09   #46
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Default Financial calculations for deciding Petrol Vs Diesel

Suppose two persons purchase car on the same day 1diesel (CAR A) and the other petrol car (CAR B). As
per your requirement decide at what kilometers you will sell the car, Say 85000 kms( kms of car ownership).
There are two calculations required for deciding-One is finding out the Breakeven kms and the other
the Final cost of the car for 85k kms.
(Note its necessary to take the Car A as diesel car in the following calculations and Car A price should be more
than Car B, otherwise it will give wrong results. The basic funda in following calculations is to break each cost on
per kilometre basis)
Calculation 1: Find Breakeven point or Breakeven kms
As one has already paid more money for the Diesel car, At what kms will the Diesel car start giving gains as
compared to petrol. Make a equation: Let Y be the breakeven kms, At Y kms the total cost of CAR A will be equal
to Total cost of CAR B
Solve following equation to get Y kms which will decide the no. Of kms to be driven for a diesel vehicle after
which it will start making profits compared to a petrol car.
Equation: Total cost of Car A + Per km running cost of Car A * Y kms = Total cost Car B + Per km running
cost of Car B * Y kms.
Total cost of CAR A= Purchase cost of CAR A + Interest + Depreciation
Interest: Interest on the amount: [Purchase cost of Car A minus Purchase cost of Car B] for N no. Of
years of car ownership. (Say 8.5% Interest on 1 lakh rs difference for 8 years)
N no. Of years = 85k kms/ Kilometer covered by car in 1 year
Depreciation: Assuming 20% depreciation on the above amount (so 20000rs on 1lakh)
(Note: Donít forget to add the above interest and depreciation which is very important for the calculation to get the
true picture to come in front. People forget this and do wrong calculations)
Per km running cost = Per km fuel cost +Per km maintenance cost.
Per km fuel cost = Fuel cost for 1 litre / Car mileage (in kms) for 1 litre of fuel.
Per km maintenance cost = 1 Servicing cost/ Service interval in kms (For eg. service of car at every 5000
kms)
(Note: Earlier the service interval for a diesel car was 5000 kms and for petrol was 10000kms but now modern
Diesel engines have less maintenance and are getting nearly equal to the Petrol Engines. But off course when
Diesel Engines give way, they lead to costly repairs compared to petrol. People often forget the maintenance cost
and get wrong financial calculations. For eg you can add Rs 16000 for Diesel Pump Calibration for a Indica Diesel
engine at 70-80k kms so 16000/70000 becomes the additional maintenance cost per km for a diesel engine)
Calculation 2: Find Final cost of Car A and B.
Final Cost of Car A = Total cost of Car A (calculated above, Not Purchase cost) + Fuel cost for Car A *85000
kms
Final Cost of Car B = Total cost of CarB (calculated above, Not Purchase cost) + Fuel cost for Car B *85000
kms
Solution:
From Calculation 1 you will get breakeven kms, if breakeven kms are more than the kms at which you will sell the
car, no use buying Diesel Car.
From Calculation 2 if the Final cost of Car A is greater than the Final Cost of Car B then no use taking Diesel.
Carefully carry out the above two calculations and you will never make a wrong decision financially. If the Final
cost of Diesel Car is only less by say 25000 rs as compared to Petrol Car it doesnít make sense to buy Diesel
car, because often Diesel engine due to more vibration give more work on suspension and alignment in long
term.
Assumptions: 1) Depreciation on the total cost of both vehicles is not taken here to simplify the equation.
2) Resale value of both vehicles after 85k kms is also not considered. If you add the above points in the above
equation you have a perfect evaluation whether to purchase a diesel or a petrol car.
Attached Files
File Type: xls Petrol_or_Diesel.xls (19.0 KB, 1107 views)
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Old 6th February 2009, 00:28   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revhappy View Post
@Logical: So finally what did you decide mate?
Have delayed my purchasing decision because of the recession. Will go through the exercise when the time comes up, maybe I will be spoilt for choice with more launches taking place through the year
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Old 8th February 2009, 18:00   #48
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I own a petrol indica, the pre xeta, with 1400cc engine. as people love to scream i found nothing wrong with zen or santro of those days, the santro was of course quite smooth. so despite all noises against indica, you can go ahead with either safire or quadrajet
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Old 24th June 2009, 07:24   #49
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@logical
dear are you still waiting for reccession to be over OR you have bought a baby(car) "n" we are left waitingf or info
pls share with us
cheers
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Old 25th June 2009, 10:33   #50
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I test drove all 3 variates and this is what I felt.

1. Quadrajet is the most drivable with almost no turbo lag.

2. Saffire is second best, decent pick up and pull.

3. TDI, comes last, it has turbo lag and the suddenly starts to pull, which I think woun't be nice in city conditions.

The Saffire, I though would be underpowered, but I was wrong, the car has neat pulling power and does not feel underpowered.

I also found the AC in the Vista's not too effective, the AC could have been much better. If Vista had a better AC, it would be the best Hatch in the country. In terms of space the Vista is unbeatable.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 08:39   #51
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Default Confusions Vista (Tdi or safire) or Indigo CS

Hi all, although I am a team-bhp member for a long time now. This is my first post.. Need some guidance/sugestions from fellow team-bhpians.

I am planning to buy my first car. I have driven a family owned santro for a whle now but this is going to be my first self purchased car

My profile: Am a very regular jobber.. currently based in gurgaon. will use my car mainly for home to work commute 15 kms to and fro .. and occassional trips.. on an average I feel I wont drive for more than 600 km in a month.

My budget is little constrained.3.5-4 lacs. I had gone through several cars. Test driven a few and have finally reached in the Tata Camp . I haven't yet test driven vista and indigo cs but I am sold over their looks and the features and I feel currently Tatas are offering the most VFM cars in the market.


BUT I am at a crossroad and very confused as to which path to take.

1. First should I go for Vista or Indigo CS ??
I have almost made up my mind on this (for Vista) but still need a second opinion here from the Gurus.
The reasons favoring Vista are:
a+: my budget 3.5 .. (stretchable to 4lacs max)
a. New Technology
b. Better engine SAFIRE vs tata petrol.. TDI is common in both of them
Question: whats the difference between indigo cs gls engine and fiat safire engine and which one is better ?
c. better security features.. now thats what the tata sales guy introduced.. says tubeless tyres and the vista design is more safer than Indigo CS.. I personally used to think both of them have equal security features (and issues )


2. Vista TDI or Vista Safire
Have read almost all posts on this forum regarding tdi and Safire and has made me more confused. If I were having a few more bucks to spare, I would have gone for quadrajet without second thoughts. But my budget constraint has left me to choose between TDi and Safire. My concern for safire is mileage. The tata sales guy says 12-13+ in city and 15+ on highways. But I find that hard to digest. Currently my heart is tilting towards TDi but let me see if that remains the same after the test drive.

Also, the sales guy is pitching a lot for safire over TDI, saying safire is new and Tdi is old and noisy. I am suspicious over this, is safire really better and the sales guy is trying to help me or is it just that safire is selling less and he wants to clear the safire stock !!

Btw, I am being offered vista safire aqua at 3.72 lac on road (abs motors, gurgaon). Is that a reasonable price !!

PS: This is my first post, spare me if I haven't followed some of the guidelines of this forum !!
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Old 23rd August 2009, 09:50   #52
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For a first car with your money, I would ask you to reexamine the Tata choice. They are still of a CV/taxi trade mindset, and there are better overall packages in the market. The Tata cars only make sense if you need all the extra space they provide, and for that, are prepared to accept the fit and finish compromises they continue to be. There may be exceptions, but this is the experience of the large majority of car buyers even today. The VFM you refer to needs to be specified with what exactly you mean by value, and you may well find that there are others that offer more VFM to you.

Last edited by Sawyer : 23rd August 2009 at 09:51.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 10:01   #53
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in the order of tried and tested

CS TDI(fully tried and tested) > Vista TDI(engine is tried and tested)>CS petrol(somewhat untested engine) >Vista Safire(entirely untested)

rocky, please list out your criteria and their priorities
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Old 23rd August 2009, 20:58   #54
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Thanks Sawyer and greenhorn for your comments.

@sawyer: The VFM I am talking here is for the entire package. I basically compared tata a-star, chevrolet spark, hyundai i10 I feel out of these all vista outscores them in all points (space,power,even looks) except may be mileage.

I have no issues with the cv/taxi image of Tata.

@Greenhorn:
My priorities are in that order:
1. Comfort& Ride quality: The car should be easy to handle for both me and my wife. I am not a speed maniac, but the car should be able to run smoothly on smaller potholes of the road.
3. mileage: Mileage should be decent
4. Space: I need space as our long trips will include 5 adults almost always
5. Looks
and of course my budget is 3.5-4 lacs
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Old 24th August 2009, 01:05   #55
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If you are going for your first car, that please consider Hyundai (prefered) or Maruti (second prefered).

Or else, Go for petrol Car (easy on maintainence).
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Old 24th August 2009, 07:20   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockysays View Post

I have no issues with the cv/taxi image of Tata.

@Greenhorn:
My priorities are in that order:
1. Comfort& Ride quality: The car should be easy to handle for both me and my wife. I am not a speed maniac, but the car should be able to run smoothly on smaller potholes of the road.
3. mileage: Mileage should be decent
4. Space: I need space as our long trips will include 5 adults almost always
5. Looks
and of course my budget is 3.5-4 lacs
It is not just an image issue, the fit and finish will be of a CV standard, and expect to be treated like a taxi cab driver. Because the front end still has not enough of any other experience/training/staffing.
But if 5 adults on long trips space is a mandate, then you will have to put up with these issues, because no other car at that price will give you this feature. I do wonder how you will accomodate their luggage though - roof rack perhaps. Though the CS may be better in that aspect.
Of all the cars Tata makes today, the Vista with the Fiat powertrain is the best engineered car by a long distance, but the petrol is underpowered for 5 adults. The lowest end diesel, with the bells and whistles removed, is also worth considering, if you can put up with the lower boot space.
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Old 24th August 2009, 07:39   #57
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comfort and ride - vista wins over CS
mileage - Tdi wins over safire, vista wins over CS, QJD wins over Tdi
Space - For 5 people alone, vista wins. If you have tons of luggage , CS wins
Looks - subjective

What's your second priority
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Old 24th August 2009, 07:46   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
The lowest end diesel, with the bells and whistles removed, is also worth considering, if you can put up with the lower boot space.
To clarify - lowest end still means the Fiat powertrain one - will take you over budget by about 20k though. Worth the sacrifice - if you can live with the boot size. Roof rack should work though - we have forgotten how widespread these were in the days of Fiats. Personally, I would take that over the CS option, just to get the far better car.
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Old 24th August 2009, 08:11   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockysays View Post
Hi all, although I am a team-bhp member for a long time now. This is my first post.. Need some guidance/sugestions from fellow team-bhpians.

I am planning to buy my first car. I have driven a family owned santro for a whle now but this is going to be my first self purchased car

My profile: Am a very regular jobber.. currently based in gurgaon. will use my car mainly for home to work commute 15 kms to and fro .. and occassional trips.. on an average I feel I wont drive for more than 600 km in a month.

My budget is little constrained.3.5-4 lacs. I had gone through several cars. Test driven a few and have finally reached in the Tata Camp . I haven't yet test driven vista and indigo cs but I am sold over their looks and the features and I feel currently Tatas are offering the most VFM cars in the market.


BUT I am at a crossroad and very confused as to which path to take.

1. First should I go for Vista or Indigo CS ??
I have almost made up my mind on this (for Vista) but still need a second opinion here from the Gurus.
The reasons favoring Vista are:
a+: my budget 3.5 .. (stretchable to 4lacs max)
a. New Technology
b. Better engine SAFIRE vs tata petrol.. TDI is common in both of them
Question: whats the difference between indigo cs gls engine and fiat safire engine and which one is better ?
c. better security features.. now thats what the tata sales guy introduced.. says tubeless tyres and the vista design is more safer than Indigo CS.. I personally used to think both of them have equal security features (and issues )


2. Vista TDI or Vista Safire
Have read almost all posts on this forum regarding tdi and Safire and has made me more confused. If I were having a few more bucks to spare, I would have gone for quadrajet without second thoughts. But my budget constraint has left me to choose between TDi and Safire. My concern for safire is mileage. The tata sales guy says 12-13+ in city and 15+ on highways. But I find that hard to digest. Currently my heart is tilting towards TDi but let me see if that remains the same after the test drive.

Also, the sales guy is pitching a lot for safire over TDI, saying safire is new and Tdi is old and noisy. I am suspicious over this, is safire really better and the sales guy is trying to help me or is it just that safire is selling less and he wants to clear the safire stock !!

Btw, I am being offered vista safire aqua at 3.72 lac on road (abs motors, gurgaon). Is that a reasonable price !!

PS: This is my first post, spare me if I haven't followed some of the guidelines of this forum !!
My 2 cents below.

My brother just picked up a Saffire, it's his first car too, and it costed him 3.77 Lakhs OTR in Kolkata.

The Vista is far more comfortable than the CS and the overall quality is also way ahead of the CS, the only advantage of the CS is the boot.

As I mentioned earlier as well, The Saffire is very drivable and is not at all underpowered, infact it's better to drive than the TDI.

For your running to 600 kms a month the Saffire is idel. It's silent, has better pick up than the TDI, and is more driveable.

In Kolkata we get to see a lot of Saffire's on road, and they are selling in decent numbers.

In my view, you could go in for the Saffire as it'll fit best, except the boot criteria.
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Old 24th August 2009, 08:30   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicmanaman View Post
The Saffire is very drivable and is not at all underpowered, infact it's better to drive than the TDI.

For your running to 600 kms a month the Saffire is idel. It's silent, has better pick up than the TDI, and is more driveable.
I agree with all you have said, but reports say that this changes with a load of 5 people and the AC on. I haven't tested it that way myself, and maybe the reports are wrong. But certainly they point to a need to be careful on this count. If the Safire had a little more grunt, it would be the car to buy.
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