Punto - petrol or diesel?

[kuttapan]

Originally Posted by AnonymousCoward

OK, but tinboxes? Always wondered why FIAT cars have larger than life (hatchback with 5.3mts!!) turning radius. Would like to know the technical reason, if any, surely.

Punto turning radius is 5.5 for the MJD, IIRC. Petrol may have the slightly lower one.

[clevermax]

Originally Posted by AnonymousCoward

NHC, Verna are sedans!

I am not sure how a car being a sedan or a hatch can affect its turning radius?

You sound like saying Punto - being a hatch - must have turning radius less than any Sedan around.

I don't know why Fiats have larger turning radii than other cars. May be they didn't design it exclusively for (Indian) city driving? But this can contradict with the fact that the A-178 platform (Palio is based on that) - the world-car project - was mostly aimed at developing countries and they all could have congested & narrow city roads!

[AnonymousCoward]

Originally Posted by clevermax

I am not sure how a car being a sedan or a hatch can affect its turning radius?

You sound like saying Punto - being a hatch - must have turning radius less than any Sedan around.

Yes, that's what I meant assuming that the wheel base of Punto might be lesser than the sedans. But may be even this assumption is wrong? Jazz with a large wheel base seems to have a smaller turning radius.

[clevermax]

Originally Posted by AnonymousCoward

Yes, that's what I meant assuming that the wheel base of Punto might be lesser than the sedans. But may be even this assumption is wrong? Jazz with a large wheel base seems to have a smaller turning radius.

Here is the answer you are looking for... even I found this thread now.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...adius-why.html (Shorter wheelbase but large turning radius...WHY?)

[AnonymousCoward]

Originally Posted by clevermax

Here is the answer you are looking for... even I found this thread now.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...adius-why.html (Shorter wheelbase but large turning radius...WHY?)

Hi clevermax, though we went OT, thanks for locating that thread. Good info.

[samsan02]

Which would be a better option Punto 1.3 MJD or 1.4 Fire on these aspects. (Considering Emotion or Emotion Pack only)

1. Mostly Bangalore City driving, home to work to home - about 14 Kms.
2. Occasional weekend driving in and around city - about 30 to 40 kms not every weekend thou.
3. City Bumper to Bumper drivability during peak hours.
4. Occasional long drive once or twice in a year - about 2000 kms back and forth.
5. Maintenance aspects. - Thou 15k intervals but still will 1.3 MJD be costlier than 1.4 Fire to maintain in long run.
6. NVH levels in 1.3 MJD over 1.4 Fire.
7. If left unused for extended periods say 3 to 4 months. – Which is better?
8. Resale Value. - Will the 1.4 Fire really lose a lot or can I expect a decent value with the additional E or E+ goodies.
9. With about 600km monthly run - Will 1.3 MJD justify as the price diff is about 60k between them.
10. Lastly What about the feel behind the wheel of an 1.3 MJD or 1.4 Fire Punto. - which is better

It would be great if you can provide real driving FE figures for Punto 1.4 Fire and 1.3 MJD in both city and highway drives.

Thanks

Note: Mods please feel free to merge to any thread you consider appropriate.

[somebodystopme]

1.3MJD is clear winner for you. Dont need to to look anywhere else.
Yes it'll be a tad costlier to maintain but it gives better fuel efficiency, check fiat's site for PDF which has cost of all the spares, and service parts for Linea diesel it'll be same for punto. NVH is definately more but it has settled to quite minimal after the run in period as per everyone.
It doesnt make a difference if you dont use a either of the cars for 3-4 months. In around 5 years you will reach a break even point for price difference of 60K, But keeping the price aside, there is no point buying petrol punto as it lacks both pickup and mileage. If 60K is not a very handsome amount for you then go with MJD.
I have driven 1.4 for 30KMS trust me it lacks the pickup it has next to no pickup Unless you press the accelerator hard, which am not used to. Driving my 97 esteem was exhilirating after driving 1.4 punto this is one major reason am choosing GP 1.3 though even its also same pickup wise but the torque is little more.

FE will always differ from city to city in delhi we usually get good FE, because we have wide roads, let fellow bangy's comment on that part.

You should go for Punto 1.3 as it has good mileage and diesel is cheaper. The engine is proven.

[samsan02]

Originally Posted by somebodystopme

reason am choosing GP 1.3 though even its also same pickup wise but the torque is little more.

Thanks for your views, but have one more question what did you mean by the above statement i am quoting it above. Pickup or Sudden Acceleration is more or less the same as torque right.

Yes I have TD'ed both and I found MJD is good for pick up but I didn't like the NVH levels but I liked the 1.4 NVH levels very smooth.
Ya ofcourse FE is another concern too. Anyway still taking my time to makeup my mind.
Any other folks want to share some views?

[phamilyman]

i'd suggest you PM nav75. He's driven his 1.4 punto for 5k km now (iirc). He will give you the right idea. IMNSHO, the 1.4 is a better bet for city driving.

the MJDs are just completely slow in in-city driving. mid range 5th gear turbo kick is all good, but the 1.4 is way better. will PM you a comparison he wrote for friends

[jacksons]

Originally Posted by samsan02

Thanks for your views, but have one more question what did you mean by the above statement i am quoting it above. Pickup or Sudden Acceleration is more or less the same as torque right.

Yes I have TD'ed both and I found MJD is good for pick up but I didn't like the NVH levels but I liked the 1.4 NVH levels very smooth.
Ya ofcourse FE is another concern too. Anyway still taking my time to makeup my mind.
Any other folks want to share some views?

Samsan, Torque mean power band, in diesel it comes early at around 1500 to 4000 rpm but in petrol its well spread from 1500 till 6000 rpm.
Petrol engine of 1.4 Fire is very good and also resposive and smooth, those who are not used diesel will find petrol engine is easier to drive.
For fuel consumption visit verious threads here, many of Linea owners have reported very high fuel efficiency and punto is little lighter than Linea, therefore it should be even better.
Here is details of Fire engine
Totally Technical- 2009 Fiat 1.4 16v FIRE for Linea

The 1.4-liter 16v FIRE engine (for “Fully Integrated Robotised Engine”) which will be used on the up coming Tata Indigo has a sprinkling of exciting technology. Therefore, I felt it would be an excellent idea to put forward the facets of the engine in this article for you to relish. I have also explained each point from an engineering perspective.
Technical Specification of Fiat 1.4 engine

• 1368 cc
• 4-cylinders, 16 valves
• Power: 95 bhp @ 6000 rpm
• Torque: 97 lb.ft @ 4250 rpm

Highlights of the Fiat 1.4 engine

• With a bore of 72 mm and stroke of 84 mm, the 1.4 16v FIRE unit is coupled to a drive-by-wire, electronic throttle control system.

IAB’s reason- So, your instructions get filtered by a computer that seems to know everything about the engine!

• The 1.4 16v FIRE has a high compression ratio and delivers more torque at low revs, which help in decreasing fuel consumption

IAB’s reason- Higher compression ratio increases thermal efficiency of the engine, but poor quality fuel (which is a problem in India) can lead to dangerous effects on the engine due to knocking. Over due course of time, deposits form on the cylinder walls and plug spark plug gaps. So the engine’s ECU would be reprogrammed to handle Indian quality fuel.

• An engine’s volumetric efficiency decides how much power you can possibly extract from it. Fiat’s engineers used Fluid Dynamics study to get maximum volumetric efficiency from the available 1,368 cc.

IAB’s reason- Using of CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics) helps in achieving the best possible result, and Fiat is a pioneer in diesel engine. It helped Hyundai in making it’s CRDI a few years ago, you know?

• Fiat uses lighter timing components and low-load type valve springs on the 1.4 16v FIRE .

IAB’s reason- Higher engine friction reduces overall efficiency and engine life, and increases oil consumption and service costs. Weight of engine components affects the power to weight ratio of the engine. So Fiat’s tried and kept it under check.

• Fuel adhering to the inlet manifold walls during winter mornings is averted on the 1.4 16v FIRE by a new injector which optimizes fuel spray phase.

IAB’s reason- What this does is also minimizes hydrocarbons in the exhaust gases (Less fuel goes through the engine without taking part in the combustion process). Fuel wastage is averted and HC emissions are also minimal.

• 1.4 16v FIRE shares Fiat’s 1.2 litre engine’s barycentric engine mounting system to reduce the transfer of vibrations to the body

IAB’s reason- Sharing of components reduces costs and development time.

• An aluminium crankcase base with cast iron main bearing caps cast together, an aluminium oil sump connected directly to the base of the crankcase and gearbox to increase the torsional rigidity of the combined unit.

IAB’s reason- Keep the weight lower, to increase power to weight ratio. It also reduces the load on the frame and improves vehicle handling. A lighter car accelerates and stops quicker.

• A crankcase and flywheel system damper to minimise vibration; and an optimized piston skirt profile with a molybdenum bisulphate coating to minimise piston/liner clearances and thus reduce noise.

IAB’s reason- Done to reduce NVH. Anti-friction coatings help in a big way to maintain clearances. Vibrations arising from the engine induces frustration to the driver and passengers (duh!). If you can keep the vibrations down, then rattles and squeaks are arrested for a longer duration.

• 1.4 16v FIRE is fully Euro 4 compliant.

IAB’s reason- Ought to be, else it can’t be sold in many parts of the world.
Source: Autocarblog

[.anshuman]

@jacksons- i did not find anything so special about this 1.4 engine, being a petrol with widespread torque it actually is left wanting for more power, there are much better engines on offer in market today. torque is just half of what the diesel offers and fuel costs are double. its not very efficient either. @phamilyman- multijet is much better for city driving, its even better than swift vdi.

[jacksons]

Originally Posted by .anshuman

@jacksons- i did not find anything so special about this 1.4 engine, being a petrol with widespread torque it actually is left wanting for more power, there are much better engines on offer in market today. torque is just half of what the diesel offers and fuel costs are double. its not very efficient either. @phamilyman- multijet is much better for city driving, its even better than swift vdi.

Thats your perssonal opinion and no offence ment to you but some people prefer petrol to diesel for verious reasons.
This engine is quite fuel efficient and I don't want to post anything here to justify here because have posted it on many other threads.
It is also easy to drive in the city traffic.
What data sheet I had posted it, rest one has to decide.

[somebodystopme]

No offence to anyone but somehow data doesnt seem to be exact when you drive the real thing, the fact that my age old esteem and zen have better pickup is not a feel good factor at all. Now engine may be damn refined but i dont like taking my car over 3K rpm for engine's life and less fuel efficiency. The torque not being in that range is a let down.

[jacksons]

Originally Posted by somebodystopme

No offence to anyone but somehow data doesnt seem to be exact when you drive the real thing, the fact that my age old esteem and zen have better pickup is not a feel good factor at all. Now engine may be damn refined but i dont like taking my car over 3K rpm for engine's life and less fuel efficiency. The torque not being in that range is a let down.

No offense anyone but do you drive one ? I think it need 10 days to get used to power of this engine and then its very peppy and fast.
I drive my friends Linea quite regularly.
For the Fuel average I have post once in Linea V/S City thread and can't do it again but let you that under testing condition it gave 23.3 kmpl, if you call this is not fuel efficient then what is ?

[kuttapan]

Originally Posted by somebodystopme

No offence to anyone but somehow data doesnt seem to be exact when you drive the real thing, the fact that my age old esteem and zen have better pickup is not a feel good factor at all. Now engine may be damn refined but i dont like taking my car over 3K rpm for engine's life and less fuel efficiency. The torque not being in that range is a let down.

Fiat engines are not as free revving as the Jap small petrols, so no comparison there. You just need to be willing to use the throttle a bit more than the japs, and then you get performance. No point in saying that I like to drive a car under 3k rpm and so this is a dud. You are better off in an MJD, then.