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Old 15th May 2014, 18:34   #166
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Thanks for the inputs but unfortunately the ladies of the house do not like the frog eyes A-Star, plus we are shying away from used cars especially automatics.
Hirak,

Why didn't you take a look at Ritz AT? I know that it is more than 7 (7.14L OTR) and again it is 4 speed AT. But why don't you take a look at it? It is spacious compared to the ones listed by you and Maruti has its own ASS advantage.
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Old 15th May 2014, 19:44   #167
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Hirak,

Why didn't you take a look at Ritz AT? I know that it is more than 7 (7.14L OTR) and again it is 4 speed AT. But why don't you take a look at it? It is spacious compared to the ones listed by you and Maruti has its own ASS advantage.
Micra CVT is also an option that is second best auto hatch only next to Polo TSi DSG, but requires a budget of 8 lakhs.
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Old 16th May 2014, 10:07   #168
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Hirak,

Why didn't you take a look at Ritz AT? I know that it is more than 7 (7.14L OTR) and again it is 4 speed AT. But why don't you take a look at it? It is spacious compared to the ones listed by you and Maruti has its own ASS advantage.
Maruti is favourable but we were looking for at AMT than a normal AT considering mileage. Ritz was in mind but somehow not able to get a buy in

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Micra CVT is also an option that is second best auto hatch only next to Polo TSi DSG, but requires a budget of 8 lakhs.
Micra is out of our reach so is the Brio. If I do a statistical analysis than Grand i10 wins considering all the goodies it offers. However, I will let the final decision rest with the lady of the house as she is the one who would be using it more.
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Old 16th May 2014, 12:25   #169
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Maruti is favourable but we were looking for at AMT than a normal AT considering mileage. Ritz was in mind but somehow not able to get a buy in
Maruti's claims of good mileage inside the city for the AMT, I take it with a pinch of salt at the moment. Lets wait for mileage reports from actual owners.

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Micra is out of our reach so is the Brio. If I do a statistical analysis than Grand i10 wins considering all the goodies it offers. However, I will let the final decision rest with the lady of the house as she is the one who would be using it more.
Grand i10 - Based on figures(8-11 kmpl in city) reported by owners, you would pay more on the gas bill every month. How about spending that extra money on the EMI (in case you are on loan ) for the brio? You budget is 7 lakhs, if you stretch it by another 50-70k, it would translate to 1.5k per month.

The brio should have a better resale when compared to its counterparts because of the honda badge and there is a demand for well maintained honda automatics in the pre-owned market.

Last edited by Mr_Bean : 16th May 2014 at 12:30. Reason: edit
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Old 22nd May 2014, 14:45   #170
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What an appalling service by Maruti even before selling the car, none of the dealers offer for a test drive of the Celerio AMT, they either say we will call back in 10 mins and do not call or outright inform that because waiting period is close to 9 months they are not offering AMT drives.

So we are more or less finalized on the i10 AT, just trying to decide if it should be the Asta or Sportz.
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Old 26th May 2014, 12:46   #171
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What an appalling service by Maruti even before selling the car, none of the dealers offer for a test drive of the Celerio AMT, they either say we will call back in 10 mins and do not call or outright inform that because waiting period is close to 9 months they are not offering AMT drives.

So we are more or less finalized on the i10 AT, just trying to decide if it should be the Asta or Sportz.
Just to update this thread, we booked a Golden Orange Grand Sportz AT this weekend. So now the work starts to sell the white whale
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Old 26th May 2014, 12:55   #172
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

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Just to update this thread, we booked a Golden Orange Grand Sportz AT this weekend. So now the work starts to sell the white whale
Congrats. In spite of the price, I am sure the ownership experience would be very positive. Yes cost of ownership would be on the higher side. (Hyundai labour costs are very high). But in spite of that satisfaction levels for city commute would be very high.

In my case its been about 5 years of Gen-1 Sportz AT ownership. With about 600-800 km per month of commute for my requirements, I find it very good for the comfort it provides (interiors as well as the engine refinement). Fuel costs I do take it with a pinch of salt. Not overly concerned with it.
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Old 26th May 2014, 13:32   #173
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

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Just to update this thread, we booked a Golden Orange Grand Sportz AT this weekend. So now the work starts to sell the white whale
Hirak,
You are selling the white whale and bringing in Grand AT? I thought Grand AT is going to be an addition to your garage, and may be down the line I expected white whale to be replaced by a SUV.
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Old 26th May 2014, 15:07   #174
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Hirak,
You are selling the white whale and bringing in Grand AT? I thought Grand AT is going to be an addition to your garage, and may be down the line I expected white whale to be replaced by a SUV.
The Grand will replace the whale, some family priorities changed just like in your case
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Old 7th August 2014, 23:19   #175
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Hi all.

My parents are on the lookout for a new car and have almost finalized the Celerio AMT.

-> My dad has recently started complaining of pain in the left knee while driving for extended periods, especially in moderate traffic conditions. Hence, an automatic is being currently preferred.
-> The Grand i10 AT's low fuel-efficiency numbers have made us reject it. Plus, we have just too many i10's in the family.
-> My parents and I liked the Brio very much, but the small boot and the fact that its not selling well were two big deal-breakers in my parents' opinion.
-> The Micra is not considered for lack of brand value. Polo, as per user reviews, is costly to maintain and the DSG gearbox unreliable. Plus, its way beyond our budget.


Now to my questions:

1. During our test-drives, none of us noticed the much-touted jerky gear-shifts mentioned in the official review. Were we just lucky or was it just a one-off car? Also, how prominent will they be on a brand new car?

2. A few people in the know-how have told Dad that overtaking in an AMT Celerio is a very risky affair, coz of the unpredictable upshifts and the subsequent loss of power (I see its even mentioned in the official review). How relevant is this? Will every overtaking maneuver require shifting to M mode? Any other method?

3. What is the probability of Maruti introducing the Celerio AMT ZXI(O) in the near future? We don't mind waiting as I would personally prefer the car to have all the available safety features.

4. The SA of one showroom has quoted a minimum waiting period as 6 months, whereas the other showroom has quoted 9 months. How realistic are these figures?

5. My parents have been driving manual cars all their lives. Its been around 20 years since they bought their first car. How big will the learning curve be for AT, considering that both are close to 60 years old?

6. All 3 showrooms in my hometown have strictly refused to give any discounts on the Celerio. Infact, they are not even offering any exchange bonus or a loyalty bonus. We were told that these were strict orders from the company and are being applied all over India. How true is this?

7. Are we missing out on any other options?

Thanks to all in advance.

Last edited by mohitk1993 : 7th August 2014 at 23:21. Reason: Added info
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Old 8th August 2014, 00:28   #176
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

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Originally Posted by mohitk1993 View Post
Hi all.

My parents are on the lookout for a new car and have almost finalized the Celerio AMT.

Now to my questions:

1. During our test-drives, none of us noticed the much-touted jerky gear-shifts mentioned in the official review. Were we just lucky or was it just a one-off car? Also, how prominent will they be on a brand new car?

2. A few people in the know-how have told Dad that overtaking in an AMT Celerio is a very risky affair, coz of the unpredictable upshifts and the subsequent loss of power (I see its even mentioned in the official review). How relevant is this? Will every overtaking maneuver require shifting to M mode? Any other method?
I would not call it a risky affair but it might be a pain now and then for someone that's used to a manual car. Anyway, I don't see your parents darting through traffic overtaking cars and buses in small gaps with little time, so it shouldn't be that bad. You drove the car and if you guys found it alright, then go ahead.

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3. What is the probability of Maruti introducing the Celerio AMT ZXI(O) in the near future? We don't mind waiting as I would personally prefer the car to have all the available safety features.
Actually, I would say it is highly likely that Maruti will introduce airbags and abs in the Celerio since the recent talks of mandatory crash safety testing in India, most car manufacturers are predicted to fit their cars with minimum safety features in less than a year's time. Plus, with the addition of the upcoming Ciaz, SX4 S-Cross, and facelifted Swift, Maruti seem to be cleaning up their act here in India and finally showing a real effort to be perceived as a quality brand so I would expect a better equipped version of the AMT Celerio by the year's end or early next year.

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Originally Posted by mohitk1993 View Post
4. The SA of one showroom has quoted a minimum waiting period as 6 months, whereas the other showroom has quoted 9 months. How realistic are these figures?
I am not sure exactly how long the waiting period is these days, but yes, the Celerio like any other popular car, does come with a long waiting period. Knowing the right people could help you go up the list though.

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Originally Posted by mohitk1993 View Post
5. My parents have been driving manual cars all their lives. Its been around 20 years since they bought their first car. How big will the learning curve be for AT, considering that both are close to 60 years old?
A month at most, to master the car and that means being used to the lack of a clutch, being able to predict what the car will do at particular speeds in particular gears at particular rpms etc.

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6. All 3 showrooms in my hometown have strictly refused to give any discounts on the Celerio. Infact, they are not even offering any exchange bonus or a loyalty bonus. We were told that these were strict orders from the company and are being applied all over India. How true is this?

Thanks to all in advance.
Getting a discount on a popular car is next to impossible. However, I do think you could get some free mudflaps, carpets etc.

Cheers!

Last edited by IshaanIan : 8th August 2014 at 00:29.
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Old 8th August 2014, 18:16   #177
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

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I don't see your parents darting through traffic overtaking cars and buses in small gaps with little time, so it shouldn't be that bad.
Yes, my parents are quite sedate drivers and rarely drive over 80 kmph. But, a sudden upshift from the transmission midway of an overtaking manuever will surely catch them unawares. We really need to test the car on such conditions.

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Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
You drove the car and if you guys found it alright, then go ahead.
Actually, the SA didn't let us take out the car on long stretches, citing some showroom policy. We just drove in the city, which, speaking retrospectively, doesn't seem a good idea. I think we should book another test-drive from another dealer and check the gearbox characteristics on the highway.

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Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
I would say it is highly likely that Maruti will introduce airbags and abs in the Celerio since the recent talks of mandatory crash safety testing in India, most car manufacturers are predicted to fit their cars with minimum safety features in less than a year's time.
Sir, do you have any official confirmation regarding the same? We don't mind waiting for another couple of months, if a ZXI(O) in AMT is introduced.
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Old 8th August 2014, 20:45   #178
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohitk1993 View Post
Hi all.

My parents are on the lookout for a new car and have almost finalized the Celerio AMT.

-> My dad has recently started complaining of pain in the left knee while driving for extended periods, especially in moderate traffic conditions. Hence, an automatic is being currently preferred.
-> The Grand i10 AT's low fuel-efficiency numbers have made us reject it. Plus, we have just too many i10's in the family.
-> My parents and I liked the Brio very much, but the small boot and the fact that its not selling well were two big deal-breakers in my parents' opinion.
-> The Micra is not considered for lack of brand value. Polo, as per user reviews, is costly to maintain and the DSG gearbox unreliable. Plus, its way beyond our budget.


Now to my questions:

1. During our test-drives, none of us noticed the much-touted jerky gear-shifts mentioned in the official review. Were we just lucky or was it just a one-off car? Also, how prominent will they be on a brand new car?

2. A few people in the know-how have told Dad that overtaking in an AMT Celerio is a very risky affair, coz of the unpredictable upshifts and the subsequent loss of power (I see its even mentioned in the official review). How relevant is this? Will every overtaking maneuver require shifting to M mode? Any other method?

3. What is the probability of Maruti introducing the Celerio AMT ZXI(O) in the near future? We don't mind waiting as I would personally prefer the car to have all the available safety features.

4. The SA of one showroom has quoted a minimum waiting period as 6 months, whereas the other showroom has quoted 9 months. How realistic are these figures?

5. My parents have been driving manual cars all their lives. Its been around 20 years since they bought their first car. How big will the learning curve be for AT, considering that both are close to 60 years old?

6. All 3 showrooms in my hometown have strictly refused to give any discounts on the Celerio. Infact, they are not even offering any exchange bonus or a loyalty bonus. We were told that these were strict orders from the company and are being applied all over India. How true is this?

7. Are we missing out on any other options?

Thanks to all in advance.
1. The jerkiness is subjective. Probably more noticeable if you have driven several types of AT's. I drive a Vento TSI DSG. When I test drove the Celerio, it was definitely jerky compared to the DSG, But I did not find it bad at all. If you did not notice it, then it probably will not bother you. Alternative is to probably test drive the Micra CVT and then go back and test drive the Celerio.

2. I do not think it is unpredicatable. It will behave in the same manner under similar conditions. So once you get used to it, you can definitely plan ahead. Like if it is a sharp over-taking, then go into M mode and if it is a lazy overtake on a 4 lane highway where a shift up will not cause a problem, then keep in D mode. This is not specific to the Celerio AMT, pretty much true for all types of AT Hatches under 10L apart from the Polo GT TSI.

3 Maruti has never provided an AT option in the top end variant (Ritz, Dzire, SX4). So I personally do not expect them to provide one on Celerio. Just my thought.

4. I think waiting period is genuine. But I have read that Maruti is attempting to increase production. So it may come down.

5. I was just having a discussion on this with a friend today. My Vento AT was driven by 5-6 friends/relatives. All of them with good driving experience and mostly with manual cars. Couple of them were totally comfortable in a few minutes, couple of them even after driving for some time could not keep the left leg quiet and ended up left leg braking and sudden braking assuming the brake is the clutch. So it really depends on the whole driving mentality in your mind. In any case, few days of driving should be enough in the worst case.

6. It is a car with a 6 month wait. No reason to give any discount.

7. You have covered all choices. From your list, I assume your max budget is around the 7-7.5L range. The only other option is to go the pre-owned route. You can get a 2-3 year old Honda City AT for 7L and thats an excellent car for your purpose. It also comes with Paddle shifts which enables you to quickly drop a gear or 2 during sharp overtaking.

Hope this helps.
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Old 8th August 2014, 21:25   #179
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohitk1993 View Post
Hi all.

My parents are on the lookout for a new car and have almost finalized the Celerio AMT.

-> My dad has recently started complaining of pain in the left knee while driving for extended periods, especially in moderate traffic conditions. Hence, an automatic is being currently preferred.
-> The Grand i10 AT's low fuel-efficiency numbers have made us reject it. Plus, we have just too many i10's in the family.
-> My parents and I liked the Brio very much, but the small boot and the fact that its not selling well were two big deal-breakers in my parents' opinion.
-> The Micra is not considered for lack of brand value. Polo, as per user reviews, is costly to maintain and the DSG gearbox unreliable. Plus, its way beyond our budget.


Now to my questions:

1. During our test-drives, none of us noticed the much-touted jerky gear-shifts mentioned in the official review. Were we just lucky or was it just a one-off car? Also, how prominent will they be on a brand new car?

2. A few people in the know-how have told Dad that overtaking in an AMT Celerio is a very risky affair, coz of the unpredictable upshifts and the subsequent loss of power (I see its even mentioned in the official review). How relevant is this? Will every overtaking maneuver require shifting to M mode? Any other method?

Thanks to all in advance.
I have driven Celerio extensively for around 300kms atleast and from my experience its a very good car.
If you drive it sedately,It will upshift as early as possible,it will be in 5th gear at 50kmph itself. Yes you will feel the gearshifts but nothing to be really concerned.
if you floor it,It's fast enough.I have not driven it in highways nor did any fast overtakes so far,so cannot comment on that.
But changing to manual mode on the go is really easy.That will take care of your high speed overtaking maneuver.

Average mileage MID is showing is around 16.5km/lr,Haven't tested it with a full tank method though.This is within city with 100% AC.
Real time mileage shows upto 30km/lr when you drive sedately.

Learning curve is nothing to worry,I have driven my S10 and Celerio alternatively, There will be a slight confusion initially but after the 1st minute,You are all set.
If your parents are going to drive only this car alone, they will not find much issue in adapting to this car.
Infact,they will be happy for the ease in which they can potter around town.

I really liked the Manual mode,It will downshift for you when the speed/rpm goes below a certain limit but it will not upshift till you do it.
so very convenient.
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Old 8th August 2014, 22:26   #180
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Thanks for the reply, sir.

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2. I do not think it is unpredicatable. It will behave in the same manner under similar conditions. So once you get used to it, you can definitely plan ahead. Like if it is a sharp over-taking, then go into M mode and if it is a lazy overtake on a 4 lane highway where a shift up will not cause a problem, then keep in D mode. This is not specific to the Celerio AMT, pretty much true for all types of AT Hatches under 10L apart from the Polo GT TSI.
This is where the AMT has me confused. Ideally speaking, if the car is made to accelerate hard suddenly, the gearbox should make the appropriate downshift and STAY on the gear atleast till the engine gets close to the redline. Most conventional autos I know of (DCTs included) behave similarly. But going by the official review, the AMT is different.

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3 Maruti has never provided an AT option in the top end variant (Ritz, Dzire, SX4). So I personally do not expect them to provide one on Celerio. Just my thought.
AFAIK, the SX4 AT is/was available in ZXI. But yes, even I feel that Maruti will not bring the Celerio ZXI(O) AMT anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
5. I was just having a discussion on this with a friend today. My Vento AT was driven by 5-6 friends/relatives. All of them with good driving experience and mostly with manual cars. Couple of them were totally comfortable in a few minutes, couple of them even after driving for some time could not keep the left leg quiet and ended up left leg braking and sudden braking assuming the brake is the clutch. So it really depends on the whole driving mentality in your mind. In any case, few days of driving should be enough in the worst case.
Sir, this is what worries me. Almost a year ago, I read on the forum about an old gentleman crashing his new i10 AT coz he got muddled up in the pedals. Even though both my parents were fine during the short test-drive and took to the AT almost immediately, it remains to be seen how long will it take to get the hang of it.

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Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
6. It is a car with a 6 month wait. No reason to give any discount.
What's surprising is no discounts/bonuses on the manual either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
7. You have covered all choices. From your list, I assume your max budget is around the 7-7.5L range. The only other option is to go the pre-owned route. You can get a 2-3 year old Honda City AT for 7L and thats an excellent car for your purpose. It also comes with Paddle shifts which enables you to quickly drop a gear or 2 during sharp overtaking.
The only alternative we are considering is the Amaze AT. But at ~7.5 lakhs ex-showroom for the VX-AT, its pretty expensive. The S-AT at ~6.5 is still fine, but then doesn't have the safety kit. Also, the Amaze is nearly 1.5 lakhs more than the Brio, which does not make it value for money at all.

Pre-owned cars are not in consideration at all.
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