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Old 2nd May 2015, 15:19   #241
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

I am actually waiting for Jazz CVT to launch. It would be a one of the best options in that category.
And if it comes in Diesel, that would be cherry on the cake.
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Old 3rd May 2015, 22:06   #242
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Apologies for the long post.

I am in the market to buy a 2nd car, mainly to run errands like bringing groceries, dropping kids to school etc. This will be mainly used by my wife. The mos important requirements are small size for ease of parking and AMT. With Nano GenX AMT being announced, I thought this would be the best fit. I paid a booking amount of 5K for a Nano GenX AMT.

I did a couple of test drives with the existing Nano Twist. The positives first:

1. The thing that impressed me the most was the space management in the Nano. At 5'11", I was initially under the impression that it is going to be very cramped inside. But to my surprise, I found the leg room to be excellent for both the front and rear seats.
2. Also, the 4 speaker audio system with bluetooth telephone was another surprise.
3. The compact size and the 4m turning radius is a great advantage for city driving. I was able to take a U turn in a narrow village road without having to reverse.

Now to the negatives in the order of priority:

1. The biggest let down for me was the brake. I had to lean my whole weight on the brake pedal to get any braking from the car. For me this could be a show stopper. With no other safety features, the minimum requirement is a good brake. I also read all the reviews on the GenX and found almost everyone mentioning the ineffective brakes.

Motorbeam review - "What is disappointing are the all drum brakes, the company still hasnít given it front discs. Stopping power is inadequate and the pedal lacks bite."

Indian Auto Blogs review - "Given that the GenX Nano AMT has potential to hit speeds up to 120 km/h, we feel Tata could have addressed the elephant in the room by including front disc brakes. A step in the right direction is that Tata has improved the overall safety quotient of the small car thanks to the added strengthening materials, but the disc pads are a must when engineers intervene again."

Cardekho review - "Braking was another area where the new GenX Nano felt lacklustre. While it always had drums all around, the brake pedal felt quite spongy in the GenX Nano and one really had to apply a lot more pressure than expected to get the desired bite. Going harder on it would just lock up the wheels since the Nano does not come with ABS. We are assuming this is a pre-production car and at least some of these issues should be sorted by the time the car is launched and deliveries begin."

2. The next major negative was the general quality of the interiors and the NVH levels. The engine noise in the cabin was quite harsh and my wife even asked me if this was a diesel.

3. The AMT version of GenX has only 94L of boot space which is too small.

4. They have used the skinny 135/70 for the front wheels. As the car is meant for city drive, I do not consider this as a disadvantage.

5. The last issue is the lack of power. With my wife and two kids, the car struggled to reach 60kph. However, given the usage of the car only in city and for very short distances, this is not a major concern.

In some other threads I found many members considering the Alto K10 AMT. So I decided to check it out as well. I contacted the Maruti showroom and asked for a test drive. They brought the car to my residence in the evening. And I did a test drive of about 10kms.

The positives:
1. The thing that impressed me the most was the power and peppiness of the engine. While the Nano took ages to reach 60kph, the K10 reached 80kph in no time.
2. The K10 has disc brakes on the front. And the braking was very strong and effective. It gave lots of confidence.
Compared to Nano, the quality of the interiors was several grades higher. My wife too felt the same.
3. The K10 has a 210L boot that is more functional than the Nano.

The negatives:
1. The biggest negative for me in the K10 was the lack of legroom. I felt claustrophobic in the cabin. With the driver seat adjusted for me, only my 6 year old daughter could sit behind me. The rear leg room is that bad.
2. Due to the low height, the ingress and egress was quite difficult.
3. The K10 at 4.9L OTR, would be at least 1.3L more than Nano GenX (assuming the OTR price would be 3.6L as many reviews have indicated)

The AMT when in D mode has lot of lag. It up shifts very early (it was in 5th gear at 40kph), and there is a lot of delay to downshift during overtaking moves. However, manual mode is a different story. In manual mode, the shifts are smooth and quick. It offered all the fun a manual would offer sans the clutch. In fact, I found the manual mode more fun than the manual mode in my Jetta DSG.

Overall, except for the space and price, I find K10 to be more practical.

But given the very low usage - less than 200km a month, I am hesitant to spend the extra 1.3L. Because of this, I have not yet ruled out the Nano. I am planning to do one more back to back test drive of the Nano GenX AMT (when the test drive vehicle is available) and the Alto K10 before taking the final decision. If I dont see any major improvement in braking and NVH levels, then I may go with the K10.

Below are some comparisions I made for the Nano vs. K10.

Which Automatic Hatch?-engine.png

Which Automatic Hatch?-ride-handling.png

Which Automatic Hatch?-size-space.png

Which Automatic Hatch?-safety.png

Which Automatic Hatch?-interiors.png

Which Automatic Hatch?-cost-ownership.png

Disclaimer:
The comparision is purely based on my test drive experience.
No offense meant to existing Nano or K10 owners.
I have not yet finalized which of these cars I would buy. I will be deciding after the back to back test drives.
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Old 3rd May 2015, 23:03   #243
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by graaja View Post
Apologies for the long post.

I am in the market to buy a 2nd car, mainly to run errands like bringing groceries, dropping kids to school etc. This will be mainly used by my wife. The mos important requirements are small size for ease of parking and AMT. With Nano GenX AMT being announced, I thought this would be the best fit. I paid a booking amount of 5K for a Nano GenX AMT.
Ah the need for a 2nd car. I understand it is for errands but do you think its usage will evolve with time? It would be nice to have an all-rounder and while the Alto and Nano are both great efforts at the price, the automobile market is not evolved enough to offer great products at that price; you will always be looking at drawbacks.

Might I suggest buying a used car? Before you flinch at the thought, consider this: with a budget of 4-5 lakhs, you can easily procure a low mileage (less than 20k kms) Honda Brio AT. The car is so much cuter looking, safer, more comfy, quicker, torque converter beats a cheap AMT anyday, and you get a VTEC for the price of an Alto for Christ's sake! At the end of the day, it is not like I am recommending a used D segment sedan with loads of tech and sensitive suspension components which spellsd out expensive maintenance. Do have a think about it

Last edited by IshaanIan : 3rd May 2015 at 23:04.
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Old 3rd May 2015, 23:24   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graaja View Post
With Nano GenX AMT being announced, I thought this would be the best fit. I paid a booking amount of 5K for a Nano GenX AMT.
Thank you for the mini review.

I have paid 5000 each at both Maruti and Tata to put myself in the waiting queue.

Awaiting the TD vehicle of Nano so that I can do a couple of back to back TD's to finalise on the vehicle.

Reserving all my comments till I get my hands on the Nano AMT.
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Old 4th May 2015, 00:27   #245
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by graaja View Post
Disclaimer:
The comparision is purely based on my test drive experience.
Nice head to head comparison

You are missing out on one more positive of the Nano.
AMC.
3 years. And you won't pay a rupee.
For clutch. Brake pads. Wipers. Oil. Engine oil. Power steering oil. Brake oil. Servicing. Air filter. AC gas. Any parts.
Nothing. Zilch.
And more so with the AMT who knows what issues MAY come up.
Make sure you buy the GOLD AMC for 3 or 5 years (whichever they offer and basedon how long you wish to keep the car)

You won't get any car with that much peace of mind.
Anythin, anything at all - apart from tyres and electronics - you are covered.

If it's PURELY city use...

Go for the Nano.
And FD the difference.
(Might be close to 1.5 lakh, not 1.3)
Or buy stocks of Tata Steel or TCS or some blue chip.
After 3 years when your AMC ends, you will have enough to pay for your new Nano.
(By then they will have 1000 cc with disc brakes and touchscreen and what not).

Once you get used to the Nano in the city you will fall in love with it.
Its practical utility cannot be beaten.
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Old 4th May 2015, 03:52   #246
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by graaja View Post
I have not yet finalized which of these cars I would buy. I will be deciding after the back to back test drives.
Not wanting to look at any other cars? Is it only between these two that you would like to go with?
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Old 4th May 2015, 07:04   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
Ah the need for a 2nd car. I understand it is for errands but do you think its usage will evolve with time? It would be nice to have an all-rounder and while the Alto and Nano are both great efforts at the price, the automobile market is not evolved enough to offer great products at that price; you will always be looking at drawbacks.

Might I suggest buying a used car? Before you flinch at the thought, consider this: with a budget of 4-5 lakhs, you can easily procure a low mileage (less than 20k kms) Honda Brio AT...
Though I do not expect the usage of the car to evolve beyond city drive (For any distance above 10km, Jetta would be the choice), I did consider going for used cars from higher segment. I was thinking about Honda Brio AT, i10 AT and Nissan Micra CVT. I checked a few used car sites, but could not find any listing of these cars. All the listings for small cars were for manual transmission. With the low selling of AT cars, it is going to be difficult to find used AT cars, and more difficult to find well maintained cars with low running. Maybe I will visit a few used car showrooms as well and try my luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj View Post
Nice head to head comparison

You are missing out on one more positive of the Nano.
AMC.
3 years. And you won't pay a rupee.
For clutch. Brake pads. Wipers. Oil. Engine oil. Power steering oil. Brake oil. Servicing. Air filter. AC gas. Any parts.
Nothing. Zilch.
And more so with the AMT who knows what issues MAY come up.
Make sure you buy the GOLD AMC for 3 or 5 years (whichever they offer and basedon how long you wish to keep the car)

You won't get any car with that much peace of mind.
Anythin, anything at all - apart from tyres and electronics - you are covered.

If it's PURELY city use...

Go for the Nano...
Totally agree with you there. Nano would need the least to maintain. I have actually listed the AMC as a key point in the "Cost of ownership" comparision table, but forgot to list it in the positives.

I have not ruled out the Nano yet. The quality of interiors, engine power, ride and handling do not matter much. Even my wife could get over the NVH issue. The only show stopper for me is the weak brakes. Even in crawling traffic, I found the brakes lack bite. Many times, I remember putting all my weight on the brakes and hoping that I do not rear end the car in front of me.

As another member "condor" pointed out in a different thread, this may be due to the test drive vehicle that has seen lots of abuse. The brakes in a well maintained car may be better. I hope to find this out when the test drive car for the AMT becomes available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ampere View Post
Not wanting to look at any other cars? Is it only between these two that you would like to go with?
With the very low running of less than 200km per month (it could be less than 100km sometimes), and with Nano GenX AMT, I wanted to spend a max of 3.5L on the second car. Even K10 is a stretch. All other small cars with automatic transmission (i10 Grand, Nissan Micra, Brio AT) cost 6L+ which dont make sense financially. And it is proving to be difficult to find a good used AT car as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Thank you for the mini review.

I have paid 5000 each at both Maruti and Tata to put myself in the waiting queue.

Awaiting the TD vehicle of Nano so that I can do a couple of back to back TD's to finalise on the vehicle.

Reserving all my comments till I get my hands on the Nano AMT.
Looking forward to your comments and comparision after the test drive of the Nano.
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Old 4th May 2015, 07:25   #248
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

I found the Celerio AMT to be more eager and free revving than the Alto AMT when I took a TD of both.

Has anyone else noticed the same? I was wondering whether MSIL has a diff map on the Alto AMT for a tad bit more F.E. and since its in a segment lower?
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Old 4th May 2015, 07:32   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graaja View Post
The only show stopper for me is the weak brakes. Even in crawling traffic, I found the brakes lack bite. Many times, I remember putting all my weight on the brakes and hoping that I do not rear end the car in front of me.
Ah so that's why that happens
Last year I distinctly remember overtaking a Nano driven by a girl refusing to budge from the fast lane (I flashed my lights, honked politely a couple of times to no avail) It was a beautiful road in Jubilee Hills and my Kizashi was just begging for me to drop a gear, push my right foot down and belt it. Later at the traffic lights ahead I gradually came to a halt checking my rearview mirror and after a bit I saw the same Nano slowly coming to a halt behind me..."DUNKK".. she used my car as her brakes which pissed me off so much! the car literally ends just a little bit ahead of where her feet were I mean how could she find it so hard to judge I thought as I gave her a bummed out look in the rearview mirror

Was relieved when I reached my house and saw that there was no damage, but still puzzled at how it could have happened since she was going so slow

Last edited by IshaanIan : 4th May 2015 at 07:36.
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Old 4th May 2015, 11:26   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graaja View Post
I have not ruled out the Nano yet. The quality of interiors, engine power, ride and handling do not matter much. Even my wife could get over the NVH issue. The only show stopper for me is the weak brakes.

As another member "condor" pointed out in a different thread, this may be due to the test drive vehicle that has seen lots of abuse. The brakes in a well maintained car may be better. I hope to find this out when the test drive car for the AMT becomes available.
I test drove a Nano about 2 years back, and I came out quite impressed. The brakes did not stand out for me - neither good, nor bad; considering I did an enthusiastic drive, I'm sure I would have remembered if they were not up to the task. So, I agree with 'condor'; you just got a bad test drive vehicle.

I loved the car for the space, the fact that it did not feel claustrophobic (a big plus for me, in this segment) and the very decent dynamics. It was a fun little thing. I agree on the NVH levels, but for a second car, to be used for small drives, I don't think that should be an area of concern. Again, the boot space won't really matter that much, for a local run-around - just use the rear seats.

And practically, as you yourself mentioned, since you have a Jetta, the use case for this second car won't really multiply too much. Would any day prefer this over an Alto. YMMV. All the best

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
Was relieved when I reached my house and saw that there was no damage, but still puzzled at how it could have happened since she was going so slow
Don't mean to sound elitist, but it's shocking how many people with cheap cars think maintenance is optional. See this way too many times. Scary.
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Old 4th May 2015, 14:17   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graaja View Post
Apologies for the long post.

I am in the market to buy a 2nd car, mainly to run errands like bringing groceries, dropping kids to school etc. This will be mainly used by my wife. The mos important requirements are small size for ease of parking and AMT. With Nano GenX AMT being announced, I thought this would be the best fit. I paid a booking amount of 5K for a Nano GenX AMT.

I did a couple of test drives with the existing Nano Twist. The positives first:

Now to the negatives in the order of priority:

1. The biggest let down for me was the brake. I had to lean my whole weight on the brake pedal to get any braking from the car. For me this could be a show stopper. With no other safety features, the minimum requirement is a good brake. I also read all the reviews on the GenX and found almost everyone mentioning the ineffective brakes.
One thing with brakes is that you unconsciously tend to use the brakes the way you would with your regular/previous car. I remember when I switched to the SX4 from my zen, I felt the brakes were too strong and took a few days to get used to it. My colleague also took a little time to adjust to the braking on my Vento as opposed to his Esteem.

In your case, you drive the Jetta, which is a whole different beast.. So it could be your sub conscious feeling the brakes on the Nano much worse than it actually is. Did your wife TD and feel the same?

Nano may not have the brakes it needs, but it may be a matter of getting used to the way it has to be used for max benefit. Considering it is solely for minimal city use, it need not be a deal breaker.
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Old 4th May 2015, 15:29   #252
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Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
One thing with brakes is that you unconsciously tend to use the brakes the way you would with your regular/previous car. I remember when I switched to the SX4 from my zen, I felt the brakes were too strong and took a few days to get used to it. My colleague also took a little time to adjust to the braking on my Vento as opposed to his Esteem.

In your case, you drive the Jetta, which is a whole different beast.. So it could be your sub conscious feeling the brakes on the Nano much worse than it actually is. Did your wife TD and feel the same?

Nano may not have the brakes it needs, but it may be a matter of getting used to the way it has to be used for max benefit. Considering it is solely for minimal city use, it need not be a deal breaker.
This is very much possible. Actually, I did adjust to the brake force of the Nano during the test drive. But after the test drive, when I drove my Jetta, I was subconsciously applying a greater force and the Jetta braked hard a couple of times before I re-adjusted the force back to Jetta brakes. That was another concern I had. I will have to automatically adjust the braking force when I have to drive both the cars

Wife could not do a TD as she is yet to get her license
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Old 4th May 2015, 16:10   #253
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Originally Posted by graaja View Post
With the very low running of less than 200km per month (it could be less than 100km sometimes), and with Nano GenX AMT, I wanted to spend a max of 3.5L on the second car. Even K10 is a stretch. All other small cars with automatic transmission (i10 Grand, Nissan Micra, Brio AT) cost 6L+ which dont make sense financially. And it is proving to be difficult to find a good used AT car as well.
I totally understand the background. I still would suggest to increase the budget to a Celerio AMT. I think that would be ideal. Because for the comfort of city driving, a bit of a creature comfort would be nicer to have along with a slight bigger size.

Last edited by ampere : 4th May 2015 at 16:12.
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Old 4th May 2015, 16:29   #254
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I am in the same dilemma as most of the posters here. With the requirement for getting a "small" automatic car for the missus (she is a new driver) to be driven around the city, I am thoroughly confused between K10 and Nano. Given that Nano has brake issues:

1. Are they severe? She will hardly be doing 50.
2. Can they be fixed?

K10 exceeds the budget and that is the only gripe I have with the car or else I would have booked it with eyes closed.

Budget is strictly limited to 3.5 lacs OTR.

Cheers,
Saurabh
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Old 4th May 2015, 17:04   #255
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I totally understand the background. I still would suggest to increase the budget to a Celerio AMT. I think that would be ideal. Because for the comfort of city driving, a bit of a creature comfort would be nicer to have along with a slight bigger size.
Actually, size is a very important factor for me. I want a compact car so that it can be parked along the Jetta in the portico. There is a very high possibility that I may get over enthusiastic and widen the net to Brio, i10 etc.(subject to approval from the better half ofcourse) . In terms of size (please correct me if I am wrong), I belive Brio and i10 would be closer to Alto K10 in length and width than Celerio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDesertRat View Post
I am in the same dilemma as most of the posters here. With the requirement for getting a "small" automatic car for the missus (she is a new driver) to be driven around the city, I am thoroughly confused between K10 and Nano. Given that Nano has brake issues:

1. Are they severe? She will hardly be doing 50.
2. Can they be fixed?

K10 exceeds the budget and that is the only gripe I have with the car or else I would have booked it with eyes closed.

Budget is strictly limited to 3.5 lacs OTR.

Cheers,
Saurabh
Hi Saurabh,

As mentioned by many other members, though Nano's brakes may not be great, they should be good enough for city drives at speeds of 40 or 50kph. So, please do not get discouraged by the remarks (especially my comments as they could be very subjective as my primary car is a Jetta with disc brakes all around) on weak brakes. There are many users who have mentioned that they felt the brakes of Nano were quite adequate. So, the braking power is a very subjective parameter. I would suggest you to take a test drive and get a feel for yourself and then make the decision.

Regarding your question #2, I do not know for sure, but maybe there is some adjustment to make the brakes stronger. You could check with your SA during the test drive.
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