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Old 6th May 2015, 11:45   #271
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

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Originally Posted by condor View Post
Agree. I see a few reviews that try to evaluate it like one would do a hot hatch!

The TeamBHP review is due now, and will be out soon. I want to check a few things and waiting for the TD car to be made available here at the dealership.
having had the Amaze S AT for nearly 2 years now I can safely recommend this car for driving comfort, ease, great engine etc but FE is TERRIBLE!! (on Mumbai's congested roads to add!).
Bought this for the Wife but I do enjoy driving this car immensely (at highway speeds the car is planted solid - bone stock car).
See if you can pick up a used one as it's very versatile (great back seat space!).

Only wish Honda would invest a bit more on the dashboard design (learn something from the Koreans!).

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Old 6th May 2015, 12:08   #272
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

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krish69 (Which Automatic Hatch?) : .. the Amaze S AT .. can safely recommend this car for driving comfort, ease, great engine etc but FE is TERRIBLE!!
Thanks, Krish. What is the FE that you get ? Or is it bad only when you drive ? :P

I would have searched for this model, but budget is somewhat constrained.
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Old 6th May 2015, 13:41   #273
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

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Thanks, Krish. What is the FE that you get ? Or is it bad only when you drive ? :P

I would have searched for this model, but budget is somewhat constrained.
Condor,
the FE ranges from 12+ on relaxed driving (Eco mode lights up) on roads like the Western Express highway in Mumbai to a low of 6-7 on real bumper to bumper traffic. The issue is the car remains in 1st or second gear throughout and darting in between small roads. This is with a mix of Driver + me + wife.

I have not driven this car on the highway but it could easily pass 14-16 kmpl if driven sensibly. Also, the car has done under 9,000 KMs and not used on a daily basis, so I expect the average to go up post 10-12k kms.

I am sure you can get a good deal on a reasonable used one 2013 model (go for one with the extended warranty which I also took of 2+2 yrs) perhaps in the 6ish range.

IMHO the Honda 1.2 auto + engine combo is better than the Korean offerings (though my Bro in laws I10 AT is quite peppy, but FE is in the 7-9 range in the city) but the Polo GT TSI will defn be the most desireable.

The Micra CVT and Brio AT felt too cramped and expensive for the price=value ratio.
Hope this helps.
Good luck!
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Old 8th May 2015, 11:16   #274
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

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Originally Posted by TheDesertRat View Post
I am in the same dilemma as most of the posters here. With the requirement for getting a "small" automatic car for the missus (she is a new driver) to be driven around the city, I am thoroughly confused between K10 and Nano. Given that Nano has brake issues:

1. Are they severe? She will hardly be doing 50.
2. Can they be fixed?

K10 exceeds the budget and that is the only gripe I have with the car or else I would have booked it with eyes closed.

Budget is strictly limited to 3.5 lacs OTR.

Cheers,
Saurabh
I wouldn't say "brake issues". Discs have better stopping power than drums, so obviously there will always be a difference. Most posters here are used to disc brakes and they would feel the difference immediately. "Difference" is the word here, not "issue". If I am not wrong, the Tata Nano is the only all-drums car on sale today.

The braking dynamics is different for Front Engine vehicle and majority of the posters here drive front engined vehicles. The Nano design is different, it even has its front wheels made narrower intentionally. What many people perceive as an "issue" is actually the difference in physics of the braking mechanism. I would say that its braking system is adequate for usage inside a city/town/village at speeds below 80kmph. I have tested it in simulated conditions, it brakes almost as well as the old all-drums Maruti 800, if not better.

There is one thing that the K10 cannot beat when it comes to a novice driver. It is the commanding seat placement of the Nano, it gives the newbies a feeling that they are in a position of control.

The K10 is indeed the better vehicle in almost all departments and that is why it costs a lot more than the Nano. The Nano GenX is a specialized design meant for some specific scenarios and if your vehicle is going to be operated mostly in such scenarios then the Nano is the practical choice.

And the Damson Purple looks very cute!
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Old 11th May 2015, 12:46   #275
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

I have documented my requirement for a 2nd car and the comparision between Nano AMT and Alto K10 AMT here (Which Automatic Hatch?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
Ah the need for a 2nd car. I understand it is for errands but do you think its usage will evolve with time? It would be nice to have an all-rounder and while the Alto and Nano are both great efforts at the price, the automobile market is not evolved enough to offer great products at that price; you will always be looking at drawbacks.

Might I suggest buying a used car? Before you flinch at the thought, consider this: with a budget of 4-5 lakhs, you can easily procure a low mileage (less than 20k kms) Honda Brio AT...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ampere View Post
I totally understand the background. I still would suggest to increase the budget to a Celerio AMT. I think that would be ideal. Because for the comfort of city driving, a bit of a creature comfort would be nicer to have along with a slight bigger size.
As I had started with a small budget, I had limited my search to Nano and K10 and was leaning towards the K10. However, the above two comments got me thinking. K10 still felt cramped and was strictly a car for only two people, or a maximum of 3 (my wife and 2 kids, or me and 2 kids).

1. What if I wanted to take the car for a family shopping through cramped busy streets where I dare not take my Jetta? I need a car with a better leg room.
2. Though I do not plan to take the car on highways, what if I had to take it to highways on some occasions? I need a car with better safety.

Nano satisfies #1, but K10 does not satisfy any of the above. So, I decided to widen my net and check out the cars from a segment above - Honda Brio, Nissan Micra and Hyundai Grand i10. I did not consider Celerio, because it does not offer anything more except the bigger space. There is still no safety features and the interiors are barebone - not even a music system is offered in the Vxi trim. Here are my observations from the test drives of the three cars.

Honda Brio

Pros:
  • Very peppy and rev-friendly engine
  • Smooth 5 speed gear box
  • Spacious interiors with ample legroom
  • Good high speed manners. It is relatively stable in corners at high speeds

Cons:
  • The rear hatch made of glass. Though the SA demonstrated the strength by slamming the hatch shut with such a force that got my teeth rattling, I still have some mental block on this.
  • Boot space is non existent
  • The loading lip of the boot is very high, making the boot feel like a well
  • Accessing the spare wheels from the boot is also a difficult job, as it is buried deep inside the well
  • Very Spartan looking center console
  • AC is manual
  • Looks odd from the rear

Of the three cars (Grand i10, Micra and Brio), this is the car which is the most “Fun to Drive”. The engine is very rev-friendly. The car is quite stable in corners with no body roll. The interiors feel very bare bone. The center console with the music system angled towards to the passenger and not centered looks quite odd (the same way as in City). No bluetooth functionality. AC is manual. Had this car meant for mostly highway usage, I would have chosen this without second thought. Otherwise, for primary city driving, this car has more cons than pros.

Nissan Micra

Pros:
  • Very smooth 1.2 engine + CVT combo. Good acceleration below speeds of 70kph
  • Spacious interiors with ample legroom
  • Ample boot space
  • Quality of interiors feels very good
  • Solid build – doors and bonnet feel quite strong
  • Automatic climate control
  • Bluetooth telephony with steering mounted controls
  • Auto folding mirrors. Mirrors fold automatically when the car is locked
  • Center console looks symmetrical and well put together

Cons:
  • Not well suited to spirited driving. Overtaking should be very well planned.
  • Beyond 70 or 80kph, there isnt much acceleration
  • Not stable as Brio in corners

For city drive this car is the best choice. For speeds below 70kph, the CVT gearbox is very smooth and provides linear power and acceleration. The car is also loaded with creature comforts and feels up market inside. If the car has to be taken to the highway, spirited driving is not possible. On highways, it will be good for sedate driving in 80 to 100 speeds, and no spirited driving and overtaking.

Grand i10

Pros:
  • High quality interiors
  • Fully loaded with features – keyless entry and start stop button, Bluetooth, power windows, electrically foldable mirrors, rear AC vents
  • Good boot space
  • AT gear box has manual mode which adds to "Fun To Drive" factor
  • Gear shifts are smooth

Cons:
  • Feels sluggish and under-powered
  • No safety features like ABS and airbags
  • Gear box is outdated with only 4 gears

Of the three cars (Grand i10, Brio and Micra), Grand i10 feels average in all departments. In terms of ride, the engine is not peppy as Brio. Though in manual mode, one can extract some fun, it is not much compared to the rev-happy Brio. Though it is fully loaded like Micra, it loses out on the ABS and airbags.

Considering the following requirements in the order of priority:

1. Compact car for ease of parking
2. Easy to drive in the city
3. Safety features
4. Leg room in front and back for the family
5. Creature comforts and quality of interiors

I rated all the three cars and Nissan Micra seems to be the logical choice.

There are two issues if I choose Micra.

The first is the general comment about Nissan A.S.S. In my city, Nissan dealer is the same as VW dealer. My dealership experience with them so far in my Jetta ownership has been good. So, I am trusting that ownership experience with Micra would be good as well.

The second is for such a low usage, does this make sense financially. If I have to base my decision only on financial sense, the only choice would be the Nano. So, I may have to compromise on this one aspect. Maybe I will offset this by transferring some of the family city runs that I do with the Jetta to Micra.

Last but not the least, still there is the wife factor. She may totally prohibit me from spending near 8L on the 2nd car and just choose the Nano as it is a fantastic city car by itself.
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Old 11th May 2015, 13:02   #276
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

If you need to be able to make sense of this financially, perhaps you can look at a used Micra or buy a new Celerio since they have finally launched an automatic version in ZXi trim which means ABS and airbags
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Old 11th May 2015, 13:03   #277
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

How does the Celerio AMT sound? Trust it has a wee bit more room than the Alto and cheaper than the Micra but with only one air bag and no ABS.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3704015 (Maruti Suzuki Celerio ZXi AMT launched at Rs. 4,99,999)

Micra is a gem of a car though bogged down by myriad factors. If you need the rear seat do remember the Nano comes with a built in rear seat heater and the seat itself is no better than a public transport bus bench.

Quote:
Originally Posted by graaja View Post
I have documented my requirement for a 2nd car and the comparision between Nano AMT and Alto K10 AMT here (Which Automatic Hatch?).


Last but not the least, still there is the wife factor. She may totally prohibit me from spending near 8L on the 2nd car and just choose the Nano as it is a fantastic city car by itself.
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Old 11th May 2015, 14:00   #278
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

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khoj (Which Automatic Hatch?) : If you need the rear seat do remember the Nano comes with a built in rear seat heater ...
Interesting feature that ! Can you share any other unique features from your Nano ?
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Old 11th May 2015, 14:02   #279
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

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Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
ABS and airbags
Unfortunately, the parts in bold - i.e. ABS and the passenger airbag, are not available on the Celerio Zxi
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Old 11th May 2015, 14:44   #280
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by graaja View Post
I have documented my requirement for a 2nd car and the comparision between Nano AMT and Alto K10 AMT
...
Nano satisfies #1, but K10 does not satisfy any of the above. So, I decided to widen my net and check out the cars from a segment above - Honda Brio, Nissan Micra and Hyundai Grand i10.
I'm in a similar situation and recently test drove the Alto K10 and Celerio AMT's.
My first impressions were that the AMT's are not as smooth in terms of shifts and linear acceleration like the regular CVT auto transmissions. Details here (Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India)
In that respect, I think it is not correct to compare Nano, Alto K10, Celerio, Bolt AMT's with the likes of Brio, Grand i10 and Micra CVT's.

*I was told by the Maruti sales folks that the Celerio Zxi AMT has a 3 month booking/waiting period.

Last edited by NPV : 11th May 2015 at 14:46.
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Old 11th May 2015, 14:47   #281
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

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Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
If you need to be able to make sense of this financially, perhaps you can look at a used Micra or buy a new Celerio since they have finally launched an automatic version in ZXi trim which means ABS and airbags
I thought about going for a used car as well. But as the number of AT cars in the market is very small, getting a good used car will be a problem. That is why I may just forget about all financial sense (I did exactly that with my Jetta where I started with a budget for a C segment sedan and ended up buying the Jetta), and go with a new car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
Unfortunately, the parts in bold - i.e. ABS and the passenger airbag, are not available on the Celerio Zxi
+1. I checked the Celerio features, only the Zxi(O) has 2 airbags + ABS, and AMT is not available in Zxi (O).

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
How does the Celerio AMT sound? Trust it has a wee bit more room than the Alto and cheaper than the Micra but with only one air bag and no ABS.

...

Micra is a gem of a car though bogged down by myriad factors... If you need the rear seat do remember the Nano comes with a built in rear seat heater and the seat itself is no better than a public transport bus bench.
Celerio Zxi would cost about 6.25L on road. Assuming I get some deal on the Micra, the difference in price between Celerio and Micra would be about 1.5L, which I am fine.

When you say Micra is bogged down by myriad factors, can you please elaborate on that? Are there any issues with the Micra?

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
Interesting feature that ! Can you share any other unique features from your Nano ?
I guess he meant the rear seats getting hot because of the engine located below the seats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NPV View Post
I'm in a similar situation and recently test drove the Alto K10 and Celerio AMT's.
My first impressions were that the AMT's are not as smooth in terms of shifts and linear acceleration like the regular CVT auto transmissions. Details here (Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India)
In that respect, I think it is not correct to compare Nano, Alto K10, Celerio, Bolt AMT's with the likes of Brio, Grand i10 and Micra CVT's.

*I was told by the Maruti sales folks that the Celerio Zxi AMT has a 3 month booking/waiting period.
Agreed. AMT has about a second's delay during which you feel loss of power and then the gear engaging and power resuming. But one thing I enjoyed in the AMT is the manual mode, which is very responsive. In fact, I felt the manual mode in the AMT was more responsive than the manual mode in my Jetta DSG.

And the 3 month waiting period does not help at all

Last edited by graaja : 11th May 2015 at 14:52.
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Old 11th May 2015, 14:59   #282
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Originally Posted by graaja View Post
I thought about going for a used car as well. But as the number of AT cars in the market is very small, getting a good used car will be a problem. That is why I may just forget about all financial sense (I did exactly that with my Jetta where I started with a budget for a C segment sedan and ended up buying the Jetta), and go with a new car.

When you say Micra is bogged down by myriad factors, can you please elaborate on that? Are there any issues with the Micra?
graaja,
if you can strech your budget (particularly if buying on finance) and need a more comfy car + additional safety features, I suggest you also check out the Hyundai Xcent At and the Amaze AT as well. It may be a few thousand more on your EMI but you may get a more versatile + safer car. The Amaze AT for our family has been a good city runabout with amazing rear space + large boot space for the occasional heavy grocery or airport trip. the base amaze S AT comes with ABS as standard (though no airbags). Its also very easy and light for my wife to drive!

The Micra rear seat space is quite small but its a good package. It suffers from an image problem and we see fewer and fewer on the road. Perhaps you can get a good deal given the slow sales.
Cheers

Last edited by krish69 : 11th May 2015 at 15:00. Reason: typo and reduced space
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Old 11th May 2015, 15:01   #283
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

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Originally Posted by graaja View Post
In fact, I felt the manual mode in the AMT was more responsive than the manual mode in my Jetta DSG.
Good to hear that I'm not alone, I felt the same and mentioned it on the other AMT thread
The manual mode felt really good, very responsive and felt a lot in control than the Auto mode
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Old 11th May 2015, 15:49   #284
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Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
Unfortunately, the parts in bold - i.e. ABS and the passenger airbag, are not available on the Celerio Zxi
ABS and Passenger airbags (in addition to the standard fare for ZXi - Driver airbags), plus alloy wheels are available in the ZXi Option pack. However, I'm not sure if this variant is available with AMT, as the pricing would then take it closer to the 6L mark ex-showroom, as against the lower 5.xx for the ZXi (O) variant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NPV View Post
My first impressions were that the AMT's are not as smooth in terms of shifts and linear acceleration like the regular CVT auto transmissions.
In that respect, I think it is not correct to compare Nano, Alto K10, Celerio, Bolt AMT's with the likes of Brio, Grand i10 and Micra CVT's.
You cannot expect an AMT to have the same smooth shifts as a torque-converter based AT (Brio, Grand i10, City etc), or the smooth power delivery of a CVT (Micra-CVT, for example), as there's only so much a robot that costs 20-30k and sitting on top of the gearbox can do (yea, that's the simplest way to talk about the AMT unit complete with the ECU & actuators), with a standard fare manual gearbox and single clutch. However, a mango-man/woman looking to buy an "automatic" would compare the similar options that you mentioned, since all of them come without the "problematic" clutch pedal. Then it boils down to the pricing and FE - if you want a smooth shift but willing to forego a little FE and pay a higher price, pick the standard AT; if you don't want to spend more and are looking for a way out of the clutches (pun intended), pick an AMT.

Quote:
I was told by the Maruti sales folks that the Celerio Zxi AMT has a 3 month booking/waiting period.
Never knew there was an AMT available for the ZXi trim. But the VXi AMT has/had a 3-4 months waiting period while the ZXi & ZXi(O) variants with MT were available in a couple of weeks.

Last edited by silversteed : 11th May 2015 at 16:03.
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Old 11th May 2015, 17:02   #285
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Originally Posted by krish69 View Post
graaja,
if you can strech your budget (particularly if buying on finance) and need a more comfy car + additional safety features, I suggest you also check out the Hyundai Xcent At and the Amaze AT as well. It may be a few thousand more on your EMI but you may get a more versatile + safer car. The Amaze AT for our family has been a good city runabout with amazing rear space + large boot space for the occasional heavy grocery or airport trip. the base amaze S AT comes with ABS as standard (though no airbags). Its also very easy and light for my wife to drive!

The Micra rear seat space is quite small but its a good package. It suffers from an image problem and we see fewer and fewer on the road. Perhaps you can get a good deal given the slow sales.
Cheers
Hi Krish,

Stretching the budget is not an issue. I am looking if the extra budget is worth spending. As I look for the fully loaded version, I will have to go for Amaze Vx AT. The OTR would be in the range of 9.2L. As Amaze will compare to Micra regarding features and safety, I will be spending about 1.2L more on the Amaze. The major difference would be the boot space, which I actually do not need. That is why I had not taken Amaze and Excent into consideration in my list.

I am waiting to hear back from the dealer what is the best offer he can give me. Will try to negotiate for the best deal.
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