Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > What Car? > Hatchbacks


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 4th August 2005, 10:16   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Pune
Posts: 19
Thanked: 0 Times
Default Why shouldn't I buy Tata Indica (Diesel) for less than 600 KM/Month running

Dear All,

If the monthly running is less than 1000KM, people don't suggest to go for Diesel. Can someone inform what actually happens if I buy Indica (Diesel) for running less than 600Km/Month. How it is actually going to affect me costwise for long term ownership of say 5 years.

The fuel prices are going up and bio-diesel is in thoughts of govt... Does it make sense to go for diesel versions ?

Thanks
skamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2005, 10:28   #2
Senior - BHPian
 
Surprise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,299
Thanked: 129 Times
Default

The more you use, the more you gain in diesel when you draw out a chart in comparison with petrol vehicles. Diesel cars are high in maintenance and has less driving pleasure compared to petrols. Hence the profit margin will be narrowed down, in which case, people suggest you to go for the petrol vehicles itself. That's my take. But wait for reply with data's from fellow bhp'ians
Surprise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2005, 17:56   #3
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,646 Times
Default

Diesel car costs more than petrol. Also service interval is 5000K instead of 10000K. So they say buy diesel only if you are running more than 1500kms /mo. However with CRD things are different. In that case diesel will give you same maintanace costs and power. But in case of indica, the service intervals are different, so for 600kms you will spend around 2400/mo for petrol car and about 1200rs/mo for diesel. 1200/mo saving. But the emi difference will be around 700rs/mo
So the actual gain is only 500rs which does not make sense
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2005, 18:31   #4
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 615
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

skamb,

A very good question.. Well, it all boils down to SI (spark ignition) in case of petrol engines vs CI (compression ignition) in case of diesel engines.. Also, diesel has more specific gravity then petrol..

So in order to obtain a specific BHP of power, a NA diesel engine would be roughly 30% larger than the petrol engine since the diesel engine needs that much more space to achieve efficient compression.. This increases the weight and the cost of the diesel engines, thus explaining why diesel engines are costlier..

Now, a diesel engine works most efficiently when the temperature inside are hot.. Cold engines generate a lot of vibration.. Whereas hot engines are almost as good as your petrol engines in terms of NVH.. Now in order for a diesel engine to get reasonably hot, you need to drive long distances roughly about 2-3 km.. You start noticing the benefits of the diesel engine only after 4-5 km..

What happens when you drive a NA diesel for short distances?? The diesel engine doesn't achieve full combustion of the fuel, thereby trickling the diesel through piston rings into the lubricant chamber. This reduces the lubrication of the piston-cylinder assembly, thereby causing wear and tear and increased maintenance of the diesel engine..

In a petrol engine, the spark triggered at the right time ensures that the fuel which is in atomized state (due to its lower specific gravity) burns completely or atleast better than the diesel fuel..

The CRDI factor results in the fuel being injected at a very high pressure into the cylinder, thereby atomising it and giving good combustion characteristics.. This also results in lesser NVH and long life of the engine as well as better fuel efficiency and better emissions.. The microprocessor controlled units in the new CRDI engines ensure that the emissions are kept to a minimum..

Hope that explains diesel being expensive for short runs..
man23ish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2005, 19:22   #5
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,099
Thanked: 157 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
Diesel car costs more than petrol. Also service interval is 5000K instead of 10000K. So they say buy diesel only if you are running more than 1500kms /mo. However with CRD things are different. In that case diesel will give you same maintanace costs and power. But in case of indica, the service intervals are different, so for 600kms you will spend around 2400/mo for petrol car and about 1200rs/mo for diesel. 1200/mo saving. But the emi difference will be around 700rs/mo
So the actual gain is only 500rs which does not make sense
you also spend maybe 50-100 RS PM more in insurance...and you cannot avoind the morning clatter that a diesel makes....
In my view couple of hunded Rs / month is not worth it...on the other hand you will get higher resale in an Indica diesel compared to the Petrol.... ..so if it is going to be Petrol...maybe you are better off with a Santro/Wagon R/ Swift / Palio depending on which version of Indica you plan to purchase...
Buffetfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2005, 21:19   #6
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chd
Posts: 289
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Quote:
If the monthly running is less than 1000KM, people don't suggest to go for Diesel. Can someone inform what actually happens if I buy Indica (Diesel) for running less than 600Km/Month. How it is actually going to affect me costwise for long term ownership of say 5 years.

If you use the car as an A to B transport and are not very finicky for performace- the Indica would not be a bad choice at all.

The current batch of the Indicas have very few quality problems.

The only problem is the underpowered engine - but if you can live with that, the Indica will offer you class leading ride comfort , space and looks.

All in all it's a solid VFM product at it's price.


But then there is a Crdi Indica version on the cards too, so you might prefer to wait for some time.

Don't worry too much about the costs and comparisons.
Go have a drive. See if you are satisfied with the not so peppy engine.

Whatever you spend on the Indica will be less compared to other products.

Last edited by imjimmy : 4th August 2005 at 21:27.
imjimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2005, 10:11   #7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Pune
Posts: 19
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by man23ish

Now, a diesel engine works most efficiently when the temperature inside are hot.. Cold engines generate a lot of vibration.. Whereas hot engines are almost as good as your petrol engines in terms of NVH.. Now in order for a diesel engine to get reasonably hot, you need to drive long distances roughly about 2-3 km.. You start noticing the benefits of the diesel engine only after 4-5 km..

What happens when you drive a NA diesel for short distances?? The diesel engine doesn't achieve full combustion of the fuel, thereby trickling the diesel through piston rings into the lubricant chamber. This reduces the lubrication of the piston-cylinder assembly, thereby causing wear and tear and increased maintenance of the diesel engine..
So Man23ish, does it mean that; If a person drives Diesel Indica for say 10-30Km/day (which is more than 4-5km), the engine will be healthy and troublefree?.

Also any idea if we can use bio-diesel in Indica ?

I just have another question about Diesel engines. I have seen people pushing vehicles to start on the road. So incase the battery is gone, the diesel engine will still work right ?

Last edited by skamb : 5th August 2005 at 10:16.
skamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2005, 10:30   #8
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,646 Times
Default

@skamb, my indica is 3 years old, done almost 50K kms. The engine is in perfect state and as silient as the new indicas. Early morning clatter is there, but that is there in new diesel cars also. As for bio diesel, i saw an indica doing trials in IIT delhi, so i guess with little modifications it should run on bio diesel too.
As for battery. I have suffered from a dead bettery, and the car had to be push started. Battery is not needed for it to run.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2005, 12:19   #9
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 615
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skamb
So Man23ish, does it mean that; If a person drives Diesel Indica for say 10-30Km/day (which is more than 4-5km), the engine will be healthy and troublefree?.
Well not necessarily, There is still the starting clatter that you have to get used to.. This clatter (vibrations) affect not only the engine but almost all the fittings in the engine bay.. This can also affect your drive-train (transmission) unless serviced regularly.. Part of the servicing procedure is to tighten all the screws in the engine bay.. All of the above is also applicable to a petrol engine but to a very less extent..

Quote:
Originally Posted by skamb
I just have another question about Diesel engines. I have seen people pushing vehicles to start on the road. So incase the battery is gone, the diesel engine will still work right ?
Yes, this happens on cold mornings and on higher altitudes.. but this is applicable mostly to DI diesel engines.. For the IDI engines you still need the battery to heat up the pre-combustion chamber coil..

If you are planning to buy a vehicle.. Wait for some time and then go for a DICOR indica about to get launched in a few months time.. There is also a TDi Indigo available in the market which was recently launched by TATA.. I forgot the trim level of it..
man23ish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2005, 12:27   #10
BHPian
 
chandan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: sakleshpur
Posts: 250
Thanked: 44 Times
Default

man23ish,


Great explanation bro...what are you ??
chandan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2005, 14:19   #11
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 615
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chandan
man23ish,


Great explanation bro...what are you ??
Well, I am just another car enthusiast..

Gears,
Manish.
man23ish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2005, 18:59   #12
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,748
Thanked: 89,372 Times
Default

Quote:

If the monthly running is less than 1000KM, people don't suggest to go for Diesel. Can someone inform what actually happens if I buy Indica (Diesel) for running less than 600Km/Month.
People use that as a general term since most cars - including the Palio, Accent etc. - have a price differential of about 1 lac rupees or more between their petrol and diesel variants.

Butttttttttttt with the Indica, the price difference is much much less. Thus it does make sense to opt for the diesel even if your running is 600 - 700 kms a month. Heck, in the bargain you are getting a car that is much safer, roomier and with better ride quality than the Altos/Zens/Santros etc.

GTO
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2005, 19:03   #13
Senior - BHPian
 
DCEite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NCR
Posts: 3,045
Thanked: 476 Times
Default

So that means if its between Santro/Zen/WagonR v/s Indica diesel, you will S-A-V-E with Indica..
DCEite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2005, 23:36   #14
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 615
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO
Butttttttttttt with the Indica, the price difference is much much less. Thus it does make sense to opt for the diesel even if your running is 600 - 700 kms a month. Heck, in the bargain you are getting a car that is much safer, roomier and with better ride quality than the Altos/Zens/Santros etc.

GTO
I agree with GTO there.. Strictly speaking money-matters, the initial price of the Indica is less as compared to other diesels.. Also, you don't have to worry about F.E with an indica.. It gives a good mileage.. I would say, you can break-even on money saved on fuel vs expenses on maintenance at around 500-600 km per month.. Whatever you drive above 600 km is your savings.. But, i would like to hear about this from other indica owners..

If you are in a hurry, go for the Indigo TDi..
man23ish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th August 2005, 08:09   #15
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,646 Times
Default

Yes, you will. We have owned both santro and indica, and per km cost of indica was similar to the santro(the santro also had 5K service interval, old one). However the getz per km service cost is less due to 10K service interval, which i guess now exists for santro also. But the savings on fuel will easily offset that
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Highway fuel economy less than in the city - Why? ashlyak Technical Stuff 35 30th May 2014 19:59
SAFE, cost effective buy for less than 7.5L selfdrive Hatchbacks 93 21st January 2011 15:23
Confused - Want to buy a car in less than Rs. 7.5 lakh range! woof Sedans 6 12th July 2007 16:05


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 19:15.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks