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Old 5th May 2010, 10:34   #1
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Default Swift Vxi w/ ABS or Swift Ldi

Hi All,

I had booked Swift Vxi w/ ABS (Black color) around 3 weeks back and yesterday I got a call from the dealer telling me that Maruti people had called them to check if the customer was still serious about buying this model in black color and hasn't changed their mind yet. He also added that it might take upto 2-3 months to get this model in black color. This got me thinking and I wanted expert opinion on something that's been on my mind for sometime now.

I am getting Vxi w/ ABS in 4,50,000/- INR (excluding insurance) because my dad knows someone who is getting us this deal. Now I am making the whole payment in one go, no loan no emi, only because my dad is helping me financially and he doesn't want to give extra money to the bank on car loan. However, this means that I would not be able to spare anything on ICE (no tyres, no alloys, no hi-end music system) for a while (I’d actually be paying EMIs to my dad :-) without interest though)
My daily running is about 52 kms home-office-home (South Delhi to Gurgaon) and once I get my car I'd also want to plan weekend trips to places near delhi at least once every month (Jaipur, Udaipur, Agra etc.) so I wanted to check if getting Swift Ldi is a better option.

Constraints:
(a) Would not be able to spare any more money than I've planned (can spend a few more thousand on Ldi though) so VDi isn't an option
(b) Would lose out on ABS - I think very highly of this feature
(c) Would also lose out on all the features and accessories that Vxi offers (can only go for power windows if I buy Ldi)

Now this got me talking to my dad who said that a diesel car isn't really meant for service class people because we wouldn't be selling it after another 2-4 years and would rather keep it for at least 5-7 years. As per him a diesel car has high maintenance cost which means that whatever I'm thinking on saving in terms of fuel would be spent on maintenance so a diesel car would not really turn out to be economical for me. He also said that once a diesel car engine is opened then it'd have to be tuned regularly and unlike petrol car it would continue to ask for frequent visits to local mechanic/service centers. He also said that engine noise would increase and the engine being heavy and complex would start making noises after about 2 years. My dad already owns a Swift Lxi and had asked his colleagues who all recommended that a petrol car is better than diesel anyday. I understand he wouldn’t have in-depth knowledge of cars but please enlighten me if any of these things mentioned by him are actually right because in actuality service class people usually go for petrol cars majorly and is it due to the cost factor or one of the reasons that my dad mentioned.

Now I remember one post on team-bhp forum where one guy was saying that a diesel car is actually more comfortable to drive (more so when you are in traffic jams – yes a guy did post this, he’d bought a silver Swift Ldi) and me being in the capital where I spend 2-3 hours in the traffic everyday out of which 1-1.5 hours is moving at 10 kmph speed so is diesel actually a better option?

Also, I plan to keep the car for at least 5-7 years at least so please advise the pros and cons of buying Swift Ldi over Vxi w/abs. I’ve followed this forum for long and would be counting on you to make one of the big decisions of my life.

Requesting you to please reply at earliest as I’d have to freeze the model and commit to the dealer, thanks in anticipation.

PS: I really wanted Tachometer that I wouldn’t get in Ldi :-(
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Old 5th May 2010, 10:50   #2
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Daily run of 52 kms? A no-brainer. Go for the Diesel. Stretch your budget a little more and go for the VDi with ABS. After all, this is a one time investment.

EDIT: Also, the extra you pay for the diesel would be offset by your lower fuel bills and higher FE.

Last edited by DRIV3R : 5th May 2010 at 10:51.
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Old 5th May 2010, 11:32   #3
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At 52 kms a day, Diesel is the way out - Actually, I would say diesel is what will suit your usage. I would leave it to you in terms of deciding if it is going to be a Swift diesel or any other diesel. Looking at it from your budget perspective, I cannot understand why you are not willing to consider Vista Quadrajet. It will be a lot cheaper than the Swift LDI, it is more spacious than the Swift, has the same engine and a fiat sourced transmission, is extremely spacious. Infact, you will get a fairly decent model for the price of a Swift LDI - you will get an audio system and few other OEM goodies in there - And yes, it will also have a Tacho !!

The other car that I can recommend is the Ford Figo - Which is also an absolute steal for the price and the diesel version will be in your budget. This however is a new release and Vista being a proven car over the past year or so, I would recommend Vista over this.

Couple of years back, Swift Diesel would rule the roost as it had very little competition. Other than the Tata Indicas (which had a Taxi image), the Getz Diesel (which was pricier than Swift) and Palio MJD(Which had a Fiat Logo on it), there was no competition whatsoever. Times have since changed and there is a lot more in the market now. Vista and Figo are very good cars at your budget. Infact, at the budget of a VDI, even Polo and Punto come into the fray !!

I would seriously advice against the black color - It is very difficult to maintain and needs lot of pampering - Infact, the re-sale value also gets effected. In any case, it is your call.

ABS will come into play when you are driving at relatively higher speeds when the roads are wet - Depending on your usage, you can decide accordingly if you really want to go for it.

Last edited by bbkp : 5th May 2010 at 11:36.
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Old 5th May 2010, 11:55   #4
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Like people have mentioned, go for the Diesel. With that much running, its pretty straightforward.

Now which model you take is really your call.
Are you open to considering the Figo ? If yes, check it out and take a TD. Compare it with the LDi.

I dont think you would be willing to spend more money than what you have quoted, so, LDi makes very good sense here.
The VDI + ABS will come at around a lakh more than the LDi, and will be out of reach if i guess right.

Instead, get the LDi, go immediately for a tyre upgrade (wont cost that much). With time, you can add other goodies like a good music system, power windows etc.
Having good tyres, IMO, are as important as having ABS.

Not discounting the benefit of ABS here, but if you think your driving style is a little sedate and you know 'your car and its brakes', you can easily live without ABS in India. I dont think its a deal breaker.

Last edited by jigbarai : 5th May 2010 at 11:56.
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Old 5th May 2010, 12:35   #5
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Well the sole reason i'm not considering any other car is because i love the looks of swift and would get some cool alloys and typres, a nice music system even if that means waiting for an year. The problem here is that I can't really think of owning any other hatchback but swift. As for the black color, i understand that its the hardest to maintain but I'm willing to wax and polish it every month and I'm not one of those drivers who would keeping on changing lanes in a traffic jam and while trying to get into the other lane rub the other car or get rubbed. I'm an extremely careful driver who makes full use of side/rear view mirrors while driving and intent to drive the same way so getting those scratches on black isn't what I'm bothered about (hopefully regular waxing and polishing should also take care of it).

I'm sorry to say but the actual concerns that I've highlighted aren't actually being answered here. Pros and Cons of these two different models is what I'm looking at, all the talks I had with my dad - was he right or not? Please share your views on this please. And again, just can't think of owning any other car as my first but Swift - madly in love with its looks and intend to get it modded after a year or so and most of you would agree that the best modded hatchback in india can only be a swift
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Old 5th May 2010, 13:24   #6
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I did mention that for your usage, simply rule out petrol cars - You are going to get huge petrol bills that is not justified at all. You have pretty much answered yourself. I am already assuming you to be in a Black Swift.

Would say go for a Swift LDI - That is in your budget and stay put with it - For normal city usage ABS is not going to add much value. ABS really comes into play when the roads are wet and you are driving fast. Most of the times, whenever roads are wet, traffic as such is slow and hence you might not be driving so fast anyway.

VDI is expensive kit for the delta it offers compared to LDI - LDI is good to go. Added to that since your color of choice is black, there won't be a difference in the exterior look of the car (other than fog lamps). Since you are in Delhi, which is fog prone, you can go for good after market fog lamps.

In all, my suggestion would be to go for LDI

Approx fuel bill per month on petrol - (52*30)*52/12.5 = 6500 (approx)

Approx fuel bill per month on diesel - (52*30)*38/16 = 3700 (approx)

Monthly savings - 2800.

Annual savings - 33,600

In short, you should recover the extra cost of LDI when compared to VXI w/ABS (16000) in about 6 months time and start saving a lot from the 7th month onwards. If you go for VDI w/ABS, it will take you 2+ years of usage to recover the extra cost of diesel car.

I don't really think that the extra features that you get on VDI w/ABS are worth it - most of these features can be got from after market accessory shops for about 20K - other than the Tacho and ABS - Are you willing to shell out extra 70K for the following is completely upto you. The extra 70K gets you:

1. Power Windows
2. Central locking and power door locks
3. Fog Lamps
4. Wheel Covers
...

Most of it can be fitted after market (other than Tacho and ABS).

Cheers
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Old 5th May 2010, 13:30   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbkp View Post
Approx fuel bill per month on petrol - (52*30)*52/12.5 = 6500 (approx)

Approx fuel bill per month on diesel - (52*30)*38/16 = 3700 (approx)
isn't petrol swift going to deliver at least 14-15 kmpl with its new k series engine which claims improved FE?
and are you considering premium version for both petrol and diesel?
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Old 5th May 2010, 13:36   #8
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Dude, go ahead with the LDI. Many have answered most of your queries.

52km/day calls for diesel, eyes closed. Get the tyres swapped as soon as you buy the car though.
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Old 5th May 2010, 13:43   #9
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Detailed responses below. Hope it helps further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fine69 View Post

My daily running is about 52 kms home-office-home (South Delhi to Gurgaon) and once I get my car I'd also want to plan weekend trips to places near delhi at least once every month (Jaipur, Udaipur, Agra etc.) so I wanted to check if getting Swift Ldi is a better option.

Yes, it is. With this much running, dont even go near a petrol

Constraints:
(a) Would not be able to spare any more money than I've planned (can spend a few more thousand on Ldi though) so VDi isn't an option
LDi is more sensible than a VDi. OE stuff isnt that great anyways.
Add your own Tyres (immediately - you'll get maximum value for OE tyres), after market alloys, sound system etc. Will come at like half the cost of the difference between LDi & VDi.

(b) Would lose out on ABS - I think very highly of this feature
As explained earlier, this is not so important that it becomes a deal breaker. Esp if you are not going to be driving very fast (which requires fast sudden braking) or on wet/icy lanes, one can easily live without ABS.
99 times out of 100 the ABS wont even get activated during normal driving/braking.

(c) Would also lose out on all the features and accessories that Vxi offers (can only go for power windows if I buy Ldi)
Apart from ABS, you can fit everything else later on as after market or OE (company fitted) - the way you like it.

Now this got me talking to my dad who said that a diesel car isn't really meant for service class people because we wouldn't be selling it after another 2-4 years and would rather keep it for at least 5-7 years. As per him a diesel car has high maintenance cost which means that whatever I'm thinking on saving in terms of fuel would be spent on maintenance so a diesel car would not really turn out to be economical for me.

This is decade old thinking.
Older diesels were notorious for this reputation. But modern diesels have no problems whatsoever. They will do over a lakh kms with no issues at all.

He also said that once a diesel car engine is opened then it'd have to be tuned regularly and unlike petrol car it would continue to ask for frequent visits to local mechanic/service centers.

True for any engine. Once opened - expect intermittant issues.
However, modern cars if they are not abused and regularly serviced dont ever have a need to be 'opened' for a long long time.

He also said that engine noise would increase and the engine being heavy and complex would start making noises after about 2 years.

Diesels are comparatively slightly noisy, but then again, the modern diesels are not so bad in terms of noise or refinement. Hear, drive one and you will understand that this isnt an issue. And no, it does not get noisy after 2 yrs or so.

My dad already owns a Swift Lxi and had asked his colleagues who all recommended that a petrol car is better than diesel anyday.

Again more of perception than fact.

I understand he wouldn’t have in-depth knowledge of cars but please enlighten me if any of these things mentioned by him are actually right because in actuality service class people usually go for petrol cars majorly and is it due to the cost factor or one of the reasons that my dad mentioned.

Now I remember one post on team-bhp forum where one guy was saying that a diesel car is actually more comfortable to drive (more so when you are in traffic jams – yes a guy did post this, he’d bought a silver Swift Ldi) and me being in the capital where I spend 2-3 hours in the traffic everyday out of which 1-1.5 hours is moving at 10 kmph speed so is diesel actually a better option?

Yes it is a tad more comfortable to drive in traffic because of good torque at lower revs. But the clutch of a petrol car will tend to be more 'soft'.

Again - 1.5 hrs at 10kmph ! You need an automatic
And unfortunately the Swift does not have one right now.

Also, I plan to keep the car for at least 5-7 years at least so please advise the pros and cons of buying Swift Ldi over Vxi w/abs. I’ve followed this forum for long and would be counting on you to make one of the big decisions of my life.

Requesting you to please reply at earliest as I’d have to freeze the model and commit to the dealer, thanks in anticipation.

PS: I really wanted Tachometer that I wouldn’t get in Ldi :-(
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Old 5th May 2010, 13:49   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbkp View Post
Approx fuel bill per month on petrol - (52*30)*52/12.5 = 6500 (approx)

Approx fuel bill per month on diesel - (52*30)*38/16 = 3700 (approx)
isn't new petrol swift supposed to give better FE with the k series engine - maruti claims 17 kmpl, wouldn't it be at least 14-15 kmpl in city

and have you mentioned premium diesel rate as 38?
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Old 5th May 2010, 13:51   #11
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Dear fine69

1. Please see whether you can stretch your budget for a Swift VDi ABS.
(a) Diesel makes the best sense for you seeing your average running.
(b) ABS is an essential piece of safety kit, especially in Indian driving conditions and it is great to see that you are knowledgeable enough to shell out the extra money for it.
(c) The factory fitted kit which comes with the VDi ABS (over LDi) may be more expensive than after market stuff, but could be worth it in the long term (regards to warranty, reliability and spares).

2. Regarding what you have been told by your dad on the petrol v/s diesel stuff, I doubt whether much of it applies for the new generation engines. There are detailed ownership reviews of Swift Diesel owners like Jaggu or GeekSrik.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...page-76-a.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...2-000-kms.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ng-report.html (Swift VDi ownership: A Running report)

Just my two cents.
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Old 5th May 2010, 14:08   #12
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Even I am undergoing a similar kind of a dilemma. My daily average is way less than yours (~30Km) but I am still more inclined towards a diesel owing to the following reason.

Since I would be buying on a 3 year Loan and as per my running, the extra that I would shell out for the LDI would be made up in around 3years, the {EMI+fuel bill} would be same for both.

But lets say, one fine morning I wake up and on seeing the nice weather outside, suddenly feel like taking my girlfriend on a drive to an exotic resort 500 km away, I won't have to bother about a hefty Rs 3000 fuel bill. That would be a priceless sense of freedom and will make me a happier person. :-)

Just give a thought if the same is applicable to you, which, I guess, most likely will because your interest in weekend getaways suggest so !!

But with a 52Km daily running requirement, I would not have faced the dilemma at all and would have straight away gone for the LDI. Moreover, you are planning to keep her for a long 5-7 years and u never know when your running might increase further in that period of time.

As for the features, u will learn to live with them, and their worth is far less in comparison to the sense of freedom that i mentioned earlier. But, the ABS is important and I guess you have to evaluate on your own, about its cruciality to you.

I have made it long, so let me summarize my views for for you - "Dude, if I were you, I would have definitely gone for the LDI".
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Old 5th May 2010, 14:21   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fine69 View Post
Hi All,


Now this got me talking to my dad who said that a diesel car isn't really meant for service class people because we wouldn't be selling it after another 2-4 years and would rather keep it for at least 5-7 years. As per him a diesel car has high maintenance cost which means that whatever I'm thinking on saving in terms of fuel would be spent on maintenance so a diesel car would not really turn out to be economical for me. He also said that once a diesel car engine is opened then it'd have to be tuned regularly and unlike petrol car it would continue to ask for frequent visits to local mechanic/service centers.
To add more to what I have already stated and explain it slightly technically, diesel engines work by compressing the hell out of diesel. Diesel explodes at such pressures and releases energy which is what is transmitted to the axle. Unlike petrol engines where fuel burns, here fuel explodes. The explosion also explains why diesel engines are made out of iron and are heavier constructions. It also explains why diesel engines vibrate so much - imagine multiple small sized explosions - that is what is going through the engine.

To keep the engine operational, high pressures were maintained by hydraulic pumps in the past - these would pump the fuel at high pressure into the engine. This, fundamentally had a lot of issues with it and if the diesel engine was not started for 3 to 4 days, the pressure would be lost and it needed to visit a garage to get the pump sorted out - The pump itself were quite low on quality. This is the reason why diesel cars use to suffer on quality and maintenance terms. Add to this the explosion - the full force of the explosion in the engine was not being tapped effectively which meant that a lot of vibrations went on to weaken and loosen the chassis and the body.

Enter to the current day, most diesel engines are very sophisticated pieces of equipment - every parameter is controlled electronically and the diesel injection technology itself has gone direct thus eliminating most of the pain. The engines are super efficient and need only about 5 to 10% extra expenses on maintenance when compared to their petrol counterparts. Developments in engineering have also led to better dampening of the noise and vibrations from the engine - With some of the cars, it is difficult to guess if it is running on diesel / petrol.

So, be rest assured, unless and until your luck runs out (which can happen with petrol cars as well), I have hardly come across anyone cribbing about extra expenses and maintenance demanded by the modern day diesel cars - they are pretty much in the same league as petrol cars - what's more, because they are build strong to sustain the 'explosions' and higher compressions, they last longer than petrol engines.
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Old 5th May 2010, 15:13   #14
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A few more words to you my friend:

Please do not be influenced by any of the words the sales executives say when you ask them about whether a petrol or a diesel would be better suited to you. According to the Maruti sales staff a diesel is only warranted for a daily running requirement of 75 to 80 Kms, and I must say that is a hell of a crappy theory.

In cities, 8 out of every 10 swifts that you shall see on the roads are diesels and I find it hard to believe that so many people have such a high running requirement. The scenario is same in my locality too, where most people are from IT industry, and use their vehicles for office commute which would make them a clock a maximum 20 Kms daily.

The high demand for oil-burner swifts and the resultant vacuum in the sales of the petrol versions, shake up the sales targets of the executives and they make up such theories or horror stories of high maintenance.

So, if inputs from sales-executives, had any contribution to your initial decision of going for the VXI, then high time to rethink.

Anyways, to others: What would your answers to the same question be, if the daily running is brought down from 52 Kms to say approx 30 Kms.
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Old 5th May 2010, 15:41   #15
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@Viju: unfortunately I'd not be able to stretch the budget so Vdi is just not an option for me
@SilkDrive: that kind of freedom is EXACTLY what was on my mind, thanks for putting it in words
@bbkp: thanks for explaining the technicality behind it, hopefully dad goes through the thread or I shall explain the same

can someone please share the comparative FE of DDiS and k series petrol engine in city and on highways separately please. I shall run some calculation to find out the difference it'd make on my fuel bills
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