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Old 12th May 2010, 04:44   #16
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Exactly my friend gaddiwale. Honestly, you have NOT taken the likes of Palio 1.6 or Punto 1.4 and revved those cars to know how much FUN they are to drive. And Punto 1.4 is surprisingly economical.

You are again quoting just figures without bothering about the turbo lag which frankly hinders drivability. Heck my pulsar is infinitely more fun till 80. And I've clocked 42.5k km on my Swift Diesel in 1.5 years so I know exactly what I'm talking about.

My mom and bro both have CNG cars and I know their maintenance hassles so let's not even go down the gas option.

The hard fact is (except the then getz crdi) - all diesel hatches in this segment have turbo lag issues (its not fun in city traffic and crawling - its best for total highway use only) and the additional investment in a diesel (for the comparable petrol) is just plain unjustifiable at 2c's running.

Till date, despite my running, I still rue that I did not buy an i10 1.2 for the sheer engine I was so biased by the diesel economics, though the i would've clearly saved me more money!!
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Old 12th May 2010, 09:00   #17
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@phamilyman, the FE figures for the Punto 1.4 FIRE per data on the SIAM site are around 14.xx. That combined with reports by folks of poor acceleration in the 1st couple of gears seems to be a cause for concern, although tc_aashay and nav75 have posted some good FE numbers.
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Old 12th May 2010, 09:27   #18
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Hey 2cents,

I am in exact situation as you are in currently.
I am also planning to buy a hatch, though my budget is 5-6.
Punto is a great car but I have read a lot about the poor quality interiors int this forum itself. Also the after sales service of Fiat (now tied up with TATA) is questionable.

For me first preference is i20 Magna. The quality of interiors is very good. Hyundai's After sales service is we can say best after Maruti or rather at the same level. I have been quoted a price of 5.26 OTR. Sadly, there are no discounts on this car.
There are quite a lot of discussions about the poor AC in i20.
I am a totally confused at this time. Please help me.
Do let us know about what car you ended up buying.
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Old 12th May 2010, 10:24   #19
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Thanx for the feeds guys.

@subscrive: beat is good vfm and has a good engine. But i think it is just too much bling for my taste (just my opinion).

@schoudhury: K12m is undisputedly the best there is in this segment. But, every maruti/suzuki i have seen has rattles. Since I am planning to keep it for a long time i do not want to take chances with maruti.

@u_chill: i20 I am looking into, but polo i shall dearly miss.

@phamilyman, @downloadlive,@sukrit and others: I am seriously looking at the Punto 1.4 Emotion (followed by the i20 kappa sportz). Fits my budget without a stretch, well built (as team-bhp puts it - 'tijori on wheels'), and a very good ride. Both Punto 1.4 and i20 1.2 have nearly same FE figures (although ARAI figures for i20 are 18, i go by the team-bhp review).

But here is the real petrol/diesel quandary, where the Figo changes the equation: For the same price, or infact less, i can go for a Figo-Tdci Titanium (only major issue is the nonexistent bumper). A good engine that drives like a petrol, good FE and space (+ of course, driveablity better than i20 atleast) . I dont have to worry about the premium on the Diesel engine, if it is between i20 1.2/punto 1.4 and figo-tdci. Do i?
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Old 12th May 2010, 11:01   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raman. View Post
There are quite a lot of discussions about the poor AC in i20.
Not really - the complaints about the i20 AC stemmed from dirty air filters caused by dirt and leaves getting into the Climate Control run system by using "outside air" mode all the time. The 'issue' goes away once the air filters are cleaned. Overall I'm quite happy with the AC in the i20.

The thread on this is here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...pg-4-a-10.html (Weak Hyundai i20 air-conditioner. EDIT : Test results on pg. 4)

The Punto diesel is a great car - just make sure you test drive the options you have, and evaluate the dealers as well as the cars :-)
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Old 12th May 2010, 11:42   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cents View Post
@phamilyman, @downloadlive,@sukrit and others: I am seriously looking at the Punto 1.4 Emotion (followed by the i20 kappa sportz). Fits my budget without a stretch, well built (as team-bhp puts it - 'tijori on wheels'), and a very good ride. Both Punto 1.4 and i20 1.2 have nearly same FE figures (although ARAI figures for i20 are 18, i go by the team-bhp review).
@2cents, that's a good shortlist. Like you said, it's best that one goes by the unbiased, real-word reports on T-BHP - SIAM's web site lists 13.80 kpl for the GP 1.4 FIRE and 18.15 for the i20 1.2. Not sure if the real-world difference is that high.

As regards the Figo's (missing) bumper, there was a discussion about it in the Figo Review thread and Mustang.101 had this to say: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1831256-post1826.html
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Old 12th May 2010, 12:17   #22
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@Raman: Apart from the AC, there are complaints about poor head lights and music system too on the i20. But features and interiors wise, it does pack a punch.
It is reported that there are improvements in plastic in the Punto in the 2010 versions. I am not sure about that. The one I saw was a 2009 multijet emotion, with broken glove tray. Besides, there are good freebies on the Punto (the dealer has offered at least worth 25000, and informally I got to know that I can get 10-15 more).


@spindoc: I do not agree with mustang's opinion wholly. A good 'last line of defense' is not an answer for poor 'first line of defense'. Unlike sports cars, we often drive in city conditions where the later is more at use. But Figo is still blocking my decision. It makes me look insane to go for any thing else just, for its vfm factor.
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Old 12th May 2010, 13:08   #23
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Exactly my friend gaddiwale. Honestly, you have NOT taken the likes of Palio 1.6 or Punto 1.4 and revved those cars to know how much FUN they are to drive. And Punto 1.4 is surprisingly economical.
If Fiat GP 1.4 is such a fantastic car to drive and returns surprising FE (?) why its not reflecting in the sales figure? Are common Indian are fool that they have a fantastic car around but still not buying that?

Quote:
You are again quoting just figures without bothering about the turbo lag which frankly hinders drivability. Heck my pulsar is infinitely more fun till 80. And I've clocked 42.5k km on my Swift Diesel in 1.5 years so I know exactly what I'm talking about.
Yes these torque figures are equally impressive in paper and on road. Hey man you himself driven a Swift D for quite long time and give me an honest opinion - does turbo lag really bothers if you drive the car in right gear? In DDiS/MJD turbo starts around 2000 rpm or little less, does any body goes beyond these limits in crawling traffic? Drive Ritz D in crawling traffic in 2nd gear above 1000 rpm, its difficult to handle.

True a Pulser is a better option in bumper to bumper traffic, but no body buys 2 pulser as a replacment of a 4 wheeler.

If you are thinking about signal to signal sprint, come I'll show you how these diesels can show there smoke to petrol cars.

Quote:
My mom and bro both have CNG cars and I know their maintenance hassles so let's not even go down the gas option.
I guess they are after market fitments, In Mumbai 1000 Meru cabs runs on gas and when ever I get a chance to hire a Meru I talk to the drivers. They never complained about the high maintenance because of gas. May you know better.

Quote:
The hard fact is (except the then getz crdi) - all diesel hatches in this segment have turbo lag issues (its not fun in city traffic and crawling - its best for total highway use only) and the additional investment in a diesel (for the comparable petrol) is just plain unjustifiable at 2c's running.
In crawling traffic no car is fun to drive (Pulser is the best option). My point was the thread starter has alredy given a thought to diesel engines and he has the budget for a diesel car. Why one should consider diesel car if he runs car more? Because to overcome the initial extra investments in terms of saving thru' cheaper price of diesel and low diesel consumption. What if any body already has the budget to buy a diesel car? If somebody is buying a i20 1.2 Asta (On road Mumbai 6.97 lakhs) I would suggests go for a Swift VDi/ Ritz Vdi ABS (~ 6.05 lakhs) or Indica Vista Aura + (~ 6.22 lakhs).

Reasons -

1. Good performance (nobody going to a race track with these cars) and FE
2. Fantastic performance on highway and hills
3. A Maruti/TATA car is piece of mind for next 10 years.

And I hope these cars fits the budget and requirements of the thread starter.
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Old 12th May 2010, 16:26   #24
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"How much running does it take to get back the premium I pay on the Diesel engine?"
The question is relevant if your option is between Petrol and Diesel versions of the same car, say Vista Saffire and Vista Quadrajet, or Punto petrol and Punto multijet. But if you go for a car like say the Punto 1.2 Petrol, and you have a comparably good Diesel car at the same price point, which one do you choose? After all, the differential in maintenence and ride quality between petrol and diesel have diminished a lot with the common rail engines these days.

I believe this is @gaddiwale's point, the same dilemma I am facing. Just that, IMO, the only Diesel machine that comes even close to i20 or a punto is the Figo Tdci, not vista or maruti.
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Old 12th May 2010, 23:25   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cents View Post
@spindoc: I do not agree with mustang's opinion wholly. A good 'last line of defense' is not an answer for poor 'first line of defense'. Unlike sports cars, we often drive in city conditions where the later is more at use. But Figo is still blocking my decision. It makes me look insane to go for any thing else just, for its vfm factor.
I had the same doubts and looked up articles on the internet a few weeks ago.

Apparently, the focus of bumper design has over the years moved towards helping pedestrian safety in the event of an accident. If you look up the North American bumper standards, the crash test speeds to be passed are a mere 4 (front / rear) and 2 kph (side)!
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Old 13th May 2010, 15:44   #26
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Hi Pls check this post for debate on diesel and petrol.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1784011 (The financial Truth: Petrol vs Diesel)

You will get some clarity on the actual financial picture there.

Now coming to your choices, of Petrol i20/punto and figo tdci. I think figo will be more VFM over them, but remember you will also not get all features when you go for a figo. So its almost comparing apples to oranges situation here. The point is Figo with its killer pricing is indeed a great VFM car, Then when you have considered Figo as one of your choice why dont you go for Figo petrol because with your kind of monthly running Figo petrol will make even more sense. And with around 90k difference between Figo petrol and Diesel, you will definitely save more money.

Now coming to your original choices of Punto/i20 petrols, already a lot has been said about both. Even I was in a dilema when I bought mine, I went for punto 1.4 over i20 1.2 kappa, solely because i20 felt underpowered and has a bad AC. It struggles going up slopes and ramps with just 3 people, And when i10 is also having the same engine it felt more expensive because of the price difference between them. Ofcourse just for city driving its adequate. yes interiors are better in i20 but in Punto they are ok. A.S.S of hyundai is quite good too but for Fiat it is not bad either.

But a car is not just about interiors or A.S.S or looks, there is ride, handling, steering feedback and driveability and ofcourse mileage.
Luckily for you now there is a Figo and a Polo in the market to choose from. I would keep Polo,i20, Punto in one league called premium hatchbacks because of the more features and length of car. Figo and the maruti siblings ritz/swift will fall in a little less premium category.

Make an informed decision on what you finally want to buy after TDing all of them.
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Old 13th May 2010, 16:04   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cents View Post
Thanx for the feeds guys.

@phamilyman, @downloadlive,@sukrit and others: I am seriously looking at the Punto 1.4 Emotion (followed by the i20 kappa sportz). Fits my budget without a stretch, well built (as team-bhp puts it - 'tijori on wheels'), and a very good ride. Both Punto 1.4 and i20 1.2 have nearly same FE figures (although ARAI figures for i20 are 18, i go by the team-bhp review).

But here is the real petrol/diesel quandary, where the Figo changes the equation: For the same price, or infact less, i can go for a Figo-Tdci Titanium (only major issue is the nonexistent bumper). A good engine that drives like a petrol, good FE and space (+ of course, driveablity better than i20 atleast) . I dont have to worry about the premium on the Diesel engine, if it is between i20 1.2/punto 1.4 and figo-tdci. Do i?
If you are going for Punto, go for Diesel. Period.
You will be stretching your budget by 60k (This was in feb 2010, dunno how much now). But believe me it will be worth it.
Unless you like the sporty roar and go nuts revving the engine up you should go for diesel in Punto.
Diesel has its own charm, the torque is just addictive. And my i10 driving friend found the engine refinement to be almost as good as a petrol car.

I have not driven the petrol version of Punto( I did not know driving then ) but the fellow team-bhp member who went with me to test it out, brought the petrol version back in just 10 mins. Said that though it has higher Bhp than the diesel one it simply does not make you feel that way.
He drove the diesel demo version before that and had taken it out on a 1 hour spin. Needless to say he was a happy man.

Hope that helps (and adds to confusion )
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Old 13th May 2010, 16:42   #28
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@2cents: Humm nice to have company.. I am sailing in the same boat.. Confusion and Confusion.... As somebody put it the other day.. My heart wants Punto 1.4 EM pack and Head says i20 1.2 Asta...

I am looking for petrol for sure as i run less than 1000KM/Month.
As far as Punto same experience with me too.. Both Demo cars i drove had some or the other plastic parts fallen off.. To make it worse they are now stopping blue color which i wanted to buy (Can't go for Red as we already have a red Swift at home!!, others colors are dull and i don't like)

I am simply in love with i20 interiors, its quality, space and features, though I don't like sedate driving and its handling definitely is no match for Punto!!

My budget though for now is 7 max.. The quotes I am getting here in Bangalore On Road price is 6.97 for i20 1.2 Asta and 7.20 (-26K discount) for Punto 1.4 E PK (Damn those highest road taxes!!)
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Old 13th May 2010, 18:39   #29
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Originally Posted by Kiyon View Post
The quotes I am getting here in Bangalore On Road price is 6.97 for i20 1.2 Asta and 7.20 (-26K discount) for Punto 1.4 E PK (Damn those highest road taxes!!)
Good Lord, when did the prices go up so much in Bangalore. I guess its because of April 1st hike and BS IV hike on all car makes and prices.

6 months back I got Punto 1.4 E pack at 6.5 after discounts of 30k
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Old 14th May 2010, 13:22   #30
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@samson02: Figo doesn't compare with the Punto/i20 in terms of features. The only reason I shortlisted it was for the Tdci engine. At least there is the consolation of mileage. I can also upgrade to the Fiesta hatch when it launches (that metal looks hot). My impression is that the Petrol in Figo is just a dud (no offense there).

@downloadlive: All sanity and rationale in the world tells me to go for a petrol. But my heart still beats for the Multijet. The moment I sat in, I felt mounted on a horse and said to myself "yep! this is my vehicle of freedom". Heart still beats for it.

@kiyon: Were they 2009 models that you tried? Mine was. Punto looks like a little expensive choice on paper. But there are good discounts on the models, against i20, Figo, or Polo, which hardly have any. The SP informed that if I will get free accessories on active or dynamic variants, and straight discounts in case of E and E pack. I haven't done a TD of Figo/i20 yet. Will get time only in the last week. I think I will have a open mind till I see their offer.
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