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Old 9th July 2010, 19:10   #16
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why not go for Chevy UVA, its great deal at just 4 lac, i am driving it for 9000 kms in the city and up on the mountains and have no single complaint, except that it is not a jumpy and peppy car, but has adequate power when you need it (76 bhp) and is the most spacious comfortable hatchback & noiseless cabin. But then as i say, deep in your heart already you must have made up your mind and you would justify that choice, thats my gut reading of the buying process. In brief, just go for what your heart and pocket say and do not regret, there are so many choices these days, just enjoy the drive!
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Old 9th July 2010, 19:34   #17
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Default Punto > Vista > Palio Stile MJD

Well as a Palio Stile owner thou petrol would say the car meets your priorities if you take up the Diesel version however there are disadvantages of it too...keep in mind no car is perfect thou.

The plastic quality (if that matters) are not that good.
The clutch would be heavy and the travel is long too.

Good part is, you get good space front and rear as well as boot. Good suspension and built. Beautiful double barrel headlamps. Plus the 2010 Palio Stile MJD comes with new Punto colors.

However the car is discontinued in Metro cities along with 13 cities. The management has assured there wont be parts issue...yes at the moment there isn't such issue. Problem comes at the dealer who doesnt stock the parts so they have to order the critical parts. Rest you shall get it.

Plonk a Petes in the MJD, and you get a stonker 90BHP out of it.

It would be cheap to buy and to own too. The maintainence is not so high. Tata-Fiat service have quite improved in recent years. You shouldn't face problems atleast in Delhi. There are good centers like Samayak i guess, Rama Motors, Elegant (thats what i recall from delhi palio owners).

Palio Stile MJD owners are happy with the car since its launch. Havent given any major issues apart from small niggling issues due to cheap quality of rubber or plastic parts.

There was a stock clearance offer for Palio Stile where 1 piece of Palio Stile 1.6 Sports was available in 4L

In the meanwhile Punto and Vista is also a good option. Except the built part of Vista, rest is attractive in the price it is offering. Even the Quadrajet with ABS and airbags is VFM.

Better take a TD back to back with Punto and Vista. I'm not sure where you will get a Palio MJD for TD.

Test Drives these cars and take your decision on which it meets your requirements.
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Old 9th July 2010, 20:12   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ByDesign View Post
He said he has a 1.3 diesel (multi-jet) SDE variant Palio which they're selling for upto 80 to 90k discount!! Another thing he told me was Fiat is re-introducing the Palio in 2012!! (is this correct?) in which case, buying the palio now should be awesome.
There was another thread where discounted Palio prices were put up.
All the models had a minimum of 1L discount, but not all dealers have stock. Very few of them are available and all of them are 2009 make.

Quote:
On asking about servicing and parts, he said there are several cars which are running on the same engine, including the diesel punto (is this correct?) and that it shouldn't be a problem.
Sales guys will tell anything to sell.
but do remember that a car is not just it's engine.
there are many other parts which are the majority.
If you are in love with FIAT go for a Punto.
It's a much better, modern car than Palio and worth the money spent.
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Old 9th July 2010, 21:18   #19
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Originally Posted by pradeep-ivon View Post
why not go for Chevy UVA, its great deal at just 4 lac, i am driving it for 9000 kms in the city and up on the mountains and have no single complaint, except that it is not a jumpy and peppy car, but has adequate power when you need it (76 bhp) and is the most spacious comfortable hatchback & noiseless cabin. But then as i say, deep in your heart already you must have made up your mind and you would justify that choice, thats my gut reading of the buying process. In brief, just go for what your heart and pocket say and do not regret, there are so many choices these days, just enjoy the drive!
I asked myself that very question Pradeep, and deep down inside my heart an answer came to me "HONDA ACCORD V6" then I decided to think logically again haha! The UVA is completely new territory for me and I'm not willing to embark there yet. The Beat is my choice with Chevy at the moment.

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Originally Posted by rudrah View Post
Well as a Palio Stile owner thou petrol would say the car meets your priorities if you take up the Diesel version however there are disadvantages of it too...keep in mind no car is perfect thou.

The plastic quality (if that matters) are not that good.
The clutch would be heavy and the travel is long too.

Good part is, you get good space front and rear as well as boot. Good suspension and built. Beautiful double barrel headlamps. Plus the 2010 Palio Stile MJD comes with new Punto colors.

However the car is discontinued in Metro cities along with 13 cities. The management has assured there wont be parts issue...yes at the moment there isn't such issue. Problem comes at the dealer who doesnt stock the parts so they have to order the critical parts. Rest you shall get it.

Plonk a Petes in the MJD, and you get a stonker 90BHP out of it.

It would be cheap to buy and to own too. The maintainence is not so high. Tata-Fiat service have quite improved in recent years. You shouldn't face problems atleast in Delhi. There are good centers like Samayak i guess, Rama Motors, Elegant (thats what i recall from delhi palio owners).

Palio Stile MJD owners are happy with the car since its launch. Havent given any major issues apart from small niggling issues due to cheap quality of rubber or plastic parts.

There was a stock clearance offer for Palio Stile where 1 piece of Palio Stile 1.6 Sports was available in 4L

In the meanwhile Punto and Vista is also a good option. Except the built part of Vista, rest is attractive in the price it is offering. Even the Quadrajet with ABS and airbags is VFM.

Better take a TD back to back with Punto and Vista. I'm not sure where you will get a Palio MJD for TD.

Test Drives these cars and take your decision on which it meets your requirements.
Tomorrow when I go to Rama Motors I will ask if they have a 1.6 anywhere. And you're right, there's no TD for the Palio Stile MJD. But I will be TD'ing the Punto 1.2 Active and the Indica Saffire back to back. Will update once I'm back with prices and details.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daewood View Post
There was another thread where discounted Palio prices were put up.
All the models had a minimum of 1L discount, but not all dealers have stock. Very few of them are available and all of them are 2009 make.



Sales guys will tell anything to sell.
but do remember that a car is not just it's engine.
there are many other parts which are the majority.
If you are in love with FIAT go for a Punto.
It's a much better, modern car than Palio and worth the money spent.
Agreed. Will keep you posted after the TD tomorrow!

Thanks everyone so far
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Old 9th July 2010, 22:22   #20
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If the ZXI version of Ritz is costly how about VXI? It would be about 5 to 5.2 OTR. Seems perfect actually.
Somehow I am personally convinced that you need a Maruti!

1.2K series is an engine worth buying.
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Old 9th July 2010, 23:15   #21
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Bydesign

I suggest you to look at i10/figo/santro/ritz

Please do not buy vista petrol,TATA has never succeeded in Petrol engines (thought it is from FIAT)

My friend bought a beat three weeks back,let me tell you the interiors are good but the rear seat space is pathetic and view from driver is worse than that.the bumper is in shaped like an arrow and you will hit the platforms whenever you part it (READ: judgment will be problem)

My choices by rank
i10
figo
ritz
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Old 10th July 2010, 00:32   #22
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Originally Posted by joshguy View Post
Please do not buy vista petrol,TATA has never succeeded in Petrol engines (thought it is from FIAT)
This begs the question whether you've ever driven the Vista Safire/Punto 1.2. I have driven both the early as well as the current (Drivetech monicker) Vista. It is surprisingly easy to drive and it's great value.

For any car buyer, it is imperative to drive a car before coming to a conclusion, in fact it's better to take someone along to gauge passenger comfort levels. If ByDesign doesn't like the Vista/Punto, he wouldn't buy it, it's as simple as that.

Note: There is a difference between recommending a product and telling someone NOT to buy something.
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Old 10th July 2010, 00:51   #23
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^ +1. The Indica Xeta was one of the best petrols I have driven (yes!), it was unique in its own way. It is the only petrol engine in a hatchack that delivers the max torque as low as 2600rpm, and wow what a feeling! You get all the torque as if you're driving a diesel, at the same time no turbo lag and quite revvy because it is actually peppy. After driving the Xeta over a period of time, I found other petrol engines (especially the k-series engine) very lacking in low end torque. Tata had something with that Xeta engine! And no issues that I know of, reported so far. And you have to drive it in the highway and hills to really appreciate it. In the city traffic, I did 70% of my commute in 3rd gear with minimum gear changes.. which other petrol offers that?

I think Tata's cars are actually excellent. The problem is with their service team, seems to be very bad management, lack of knowledge sharing, lack of quality, high attrition and the technicians seem very demotivated. Because of this, problems keep coming up mostly in non-engine parts like sensors, electricals, starter motor, etc etc. Basically they lack the ability to build up knowledge, skills and habitual quality in the service centers. This is their bane (or the customers' bane, rather).
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Old 10th July 2010, 01:20   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajushank84 View Post
^ +1. The Indica Xeta was one of the best petrols I have driven (yes!), it was unique in its own way. It is the only petrol engine in a hatchack that delivers the max torque as low as 2600rpm, and wow what a feeling! You get all the torque as if you're driving a diesel, at the same time no turbo lag and quite revvy because it is actually peppy. After driving the Xeta over a period of time, I found other petrol engines (especially the k-series engine) very lacking in low end torque. Tata had something with that Xeta engine! And no issues that I know of, reported so far. And you have to drive it in the highway and hills to really appreciate it. In the city traffic, I did 70% of my commute in 3rd gear with minimum gear changes.. which other petrol offers that?

I think Tata's cars are actually excellent. The problem is with their service team, seems to be very bad management, lack of knowledge sharing, lack of quality, high attrition and the technicians seem very demotivated. Because of this, problems keep coming up mostly in non-engine parts like sensors, electricals, starter motor, etc etc. Basically they lack the ability to build up knowledge, skills and habitual quality in the service centers. This is their bane (or the customers' bane, rather).
+100. I first drove a Tata Petrol engine in the form of the Indica 2000. While the dynamics were iffy (ride was great, handling was not), poor quality plastics abounded, but the engine was, like you said, different. It wasn't revv happy like a usual petrol engine, but boy, was it torquey. One could potter around in town for ages in third gear (probably a good thing because of the sloppy gearbox). The engine shared the block with it's diesel sibling, it was super tough and the engine was super reliable (my friend still has that car, the engine has clocked 1,35,000 kms, with only the clutch needing replacement). Tata petrols weren't too successful mainly due to the fuel economy (large engine, 1400cc, heavy car) and the fact that the diesels weren't outrageously priced.

With the Fiat engine, you now have the same torquey characteristic, mated to a good gearbox, and the Vista Safire is quite fuel efficient too.

OT: Have you driven the Safari Petrol? Man, that machine was something else.
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Old 10th July 2010, 10:07   #25
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Originally Posted by ampere View Post
If the ZXI version of Ritz is costly how about VXI? It would be about 5 to 5.2 OTR. Seems perfect actually.
Somehow I am personally convinced that you need a Maruti!

1.2K series is an engine worth buying.
But thats way out of my budget. And I know the Ritz Vxi is about 4.1-4.2 on road in delhi. Not 5. The zxi is that much on road with ABS and Air bags. My colleague got his spanking new Zxi Ritz to office yesterday and I went to scrutinize it. When I first sat inside, it felt alright, not super comfy like the Beat but alright. Visibility is wonderful, A pillar didn't have a blind spot, steering felt average in my hands, again, not sporty like the Beat. Rear leg room was horrendous, unless the front passenger moves all the way front, its pretty bad at the back, knees have to be 90 degrees at least to the bottom. What got to me (not in a nice way) was the dash quality and interior plastics. It's shouting maruti from all angles. It doesn't seem plush like the Beat. I know it's got one of the best engines out there, but thats not enough for me to settle for those kind of interiors. Ritz is out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshguy View Post
Bydesign

I suggest you to look at i10/figo/santro/ritz

Please do not buy vista petrol,TATA has never succeeded in Petrol engines (thought it is from FIAT)

My friend bought a beat three weeks back,let me tell you the interiors are good but the rear seat space is pathetic and view from driver is worse than that.the bumper is in shaped like an arrow and you will hit the platforms whenever you part it (READ: judgment will be problem)

My choices by rank
i10
figo
ritz
My family first got the Santro, then we got an accent crdi (got the engine imported from detroit) and it was close to 7L OTR. Then we got the i10 1.2 Kappa Asta version with ABS and Airbags. I've never had anything bad to say about Hyundai, we've always stuck with them. Except for our old skool M800 from the carburetor days. But I don't want ANOTHER hyundai in our parking yard! Ritz as I posted above is out of the race, figo is a problem cause of its fuel efficiency, and the diesel version is kinda out of my budget.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
This begs the question whether you've ever driven the Vista Safire/Punto 1.2. I have driven both the early as well as the current (Drivetech monicker) Vista. It is surprisingly easy to drive and it's great value.

For any car buyer, it is imperative to drive a car before coming to a conclusion, in fact it's better to take someone along to gauge passenger comfort levels. If ByDesign doesn't like the Vista/Punto, he wouldn't buy it, it's as simple as that.

Note: There is a difference between recommending a product and telling someone NOT to buy something.
I'm leaving in an hour to TD the punto and indica vista. I'm sure i'll like em both. I know about Punto's finesse and I know about how the 1.2 is underpowered for the weight of the car, but I'm sure I won't notice this in city driving. Update soon guys and thanks very much for all your inputs so far.
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Old 10th July 2010, 11:45   #26
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Originally Posted by rajushank84 View Post
^ +1. The Indica Xeta was one of the best petrols I have driven (yes!), it was unique in its own way. It is the only petrol engine in a hatchack that delivers the max torque as low as 2600rpm, and wow what a feeling!
---------------------------------------------------------------
In the city traffic, I did 70% of my commute in 3rd gear with minimum gear changes.. which other petrol offers that?
You forgot the epsilon engines from Hyundai.
In Santro you get peak torque at 3000rpm
and in i10 @ 2800 rpm.
plus a very refined engine too..

Fantastically tuned for city drive. If only they hadn't been tallboys,
they would have been a good performer in highways too.
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Old 10th July 2010, 12:04   #27
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@ByDesign:
I think from the choice of things available, Punto suits the budget.
I gives a good space, engine and above all better built/quality.

Go for it!!
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Old 10th July 2010, 12:15   #28
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Originally Posted by ByDesign View Post
Another thing he told me was Fiat is re-introducing the Palio in 2012!!
That's a great news for FIAT lovers!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ByDesign View Post
He said there are several cars which are running on the same engine, including the diesel punto (is this correct?)
Yes. Correct.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ByDesign View Post
He also said it's a wonderful car with good FE.
I get consistent 17 in Bangalore City with AC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ByDesign View Post
Is there anything I should know about the 1.3 diesel palio?
Step into the driver seat and you will know - I mean the bland interiors, poor plastics.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rudrah View Post
Good part is, you get good space front and rear as well as boot. Good suspension and built.
Beautiful double barrel headlamps.
These are two reasons why I chose Palio over Swift diesel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rudrah View Post
Problem comes at the dealer who doesnt stock the parts so they have to order the critical parts.
I have also experienced this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rudrah View Post
Tata-Fiat service have quite improved in recent years.
Yes. Assuming that the delaer has the habit of stocking the critical spare parts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rudrah View Post
Palio Stile MJD owners are happy with the car since its launch.
I can vouch for that.
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Old 10th July 2010, 20:22   #29
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UPDATES!

Was in the Tata/Fiat showroom and workshop from 12pm till 5pm test driving and look at cars! Oh my day's I'm so tired, but never been more satisfied in my life! Lets begin!

Tata Indica Vista

Opened the door and got in, it wasn't exactly premium feeling, but boy oh boy, everything about the car clicked with me.

Visibility was wonderful, it's a one-hand drive car, extremely easy clutch and steering. The version I drove was the Aura (ABS). Engine was very refined throughout the rpm range. Center console placement was refreshing and opens up the field of view in front of the driver. Rear view was good enough. Took her to an empty stretch of road and buried the accelerator. Very pleasing indeed. The acceleration wasn't all powerful like my i10 1.2 Kappa, but it was refined. More than adequate for city and highway driving.

I took a look at the Anniversary Limited Edition too. The interiors were so good, I got tears in my eyes. Very very plush leather stitched seats, leather dash and side doors, dual tone dark maroon and beige with nice stitches. No ABS and air bags, but hell I fell for the Drivetech engine on the Aura version, and the complete leather interiors and finish blew me away on the Limited Edition.

The Beauty Palio 1.3 MJD SDE

I was taken a floor above, and there waiting silently in the middle was a beautiful dark silver Palio MJD. The car my friends, has such presence and charisma oozing out of it. I just smiled and knelt before the car and felt the headlights and grill, pure love. Such beautiful design, so solid, and yet such presence. The curves are extremely lovable, gentle yet built like a tank. The bonnet was as heavy as a Gujrati's suitcase immigrating to London. I grunted as I lifted it. The best part is yet to arrive...

The owner of the showroom is a friend and decided to get the car out on the road just so I could drive her. The tire pressure was checked, I revved the engine and took her out on the road. The steering felt heavy and my back started to pain mildly after a few minutes of driving on bumpy roads. I adjusted the seat and felt better immediately. The A/C didn't seem to slow the engine down, and chilled the interior superbly. Much better than the Punto (my colleagues 1.4 Emotion which we drove to the showroom) and the Indica Vista. Just on the 2nd fan speed, the cabin was cold, the outside must have been at least 35 with an unbearable humidity. The engine grunted at me at low revs, typical diesel engine feel, NVH wasn't extremely pleasant inside, with most of the engine's vibrations felt inside. Therefore I sadly add, that ride quality wasn't nearly as comfy as the Indica, but then again the palio was diesel. The doors closed with 'thuds' when we got out of the Palio. I instantly fell in love with this car. Something inside said this has to be it. The owner assured me good spares availability and superb FE and no complaints from previous owners.


Punto 1.2 Active

The car I actually test drove was the 1.2 Dynamic, but the one I'm interested in (within my budget) is the 1.2 active. Black interiors, no music system, front power windows, power steering and no multifunction display. After reading ROM's review of the 1.2 punto, my mind was filled with apprehension. However when I turned her on (no pun intended) she purred like a loving Siamese cat. Beautiful beautiful NVH levels, and she swallowed (no pun intended) all the bumps on the road with relative ease. On reaching an empty stretch of roach, I pushed as far as it would go (no pun intended) and she took it like a champ (no pun intended). As ROM rightly put it, on shifting and quick releasing the clutch, she shuddered and jerked. I quickly learned how to tame her, let the clutch go slow and rev just a wee bit on release. Nothing too extreme. Absolutely loved this car, apart from the small rear view.

Summary

I'll sum up the on-road prices here, plus say that I'm EXTREMELY confused. I feel like weeping. Why can't I own all three of these awesome cars? Prices folks: (all prices are On Road, Delhi)

1. Indica Vista Limited Edition - 4.6 Lacs

2. Indica Vista Aqua (frnt power windows, ac, power steering, this option is if I want to save some money and put in my own music system) - 4.07 Lacs

3. Fiat Palio 1.3 MJD (AKA the Warrior Princess) - 3.99 Lacs after almost 1Lac discount!!! (Variant offers Power Steering, front power windows, fog lamps, and of course, it's diesel for under 4Lacs! Well, its 4 Lacs.)

4. Fiat Punto 1.2 Active - 4.46 Lacs

I hope you enjoyed the read, as much as I enjoyed driving these beauties, photos are attached for your viewing pleasure. All questions are welcome. Please help me decide guys, I'm completely lost!!!!! And I haven't mentioned stuff like rear leg space etc. since this car is just for me, i.e. single use.

PS: I respect Fiat owners so much more now. You guys aren't driving cars, you're driving love, passion, quality engineering, and a legacy.
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Old 10th July 2010, 21:01   #30
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Thanks for sharing the test-drive experience. It was rocking (no pun intended ). You know, there is one line in your review, that helped me recommend one of the three- "since this car is just for me, i.e. single use".

It has to be the Punto. For actual driving pleasure, none of the other two come close. The Punto gives you unmatched ride and handling, along with stunning good looks. Although it is not as spacious as the Vista, it has reasonable rear room, and a surprisingly large and usable boot.

The Palio is too long in the tooth now, I agree it still is a great little car, but it's just too old. The Indica Vista would have been my recommendation had you planned to drive your whole family around.
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