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Old 5th January 2011, 22:08   #46
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Default Re: City Hatch as an alternative to Scorpio!

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
In current scenario i would suggest a i20 CRDi over Punto MJD. For spare parts supply to interrupted you won't have to wait till the production is stopped, it's already bad. With Punto be ready to wait for months for anything beyond frequently used spares.
I am not a votary or an advocate for Fiat nor do I hold any animus for Hyundai. Having said that I will submit as under.

Fiat is deriving whatever net income it has come from it's overseas operations. This is as per the public pronouncements of it's CEO which were widely reported in the media and created a furore in it's home country . What is the significance of this for Indian buyers? Fiat will ramp up it's Indian operations rather than close them down as the BRIC block contribute a major percentage of global growth. Now instead of digressing any further I will return to the issue at hand, Fiat spare parts availability.

My contention is Fiat recognizes the need for improving the customer experience of owning a Fiat product.The company is taking steps to roll out a revamp of sorts of it's operations. The signs are there albeit not very significant. Launching of Fiat contact points. Will Fiat take Tata out of the equation? I do not know and that is not the subject matter of this thread.

If I were a betting man, which I am, I would put my money on a Fiat product. Why? Product per se is not suspected to be deficient. WRT Hyundai A*S*S reports of the experience of a couple of i20 owners that I have read are not very confidence inspiring to put it mildly.
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Old 5th January 2011, 22:57   #47
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Default Re: City Hatch as an alternative to Scorpio!

Guys, one IMPORTANT question -

Does the punto 90 hp jerk on gear changes? I test drove the 75 bhp version but did not feel any jerk but I have read reports that both the puntos jerk on gear changing. is this true? My innova has this problem & it really irritates me...

Regarding ownership reports, I have heard horror stories about both Fiat & Hyundai, but honestly - more about Fiat.
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Old 6th January 2011, 22:22   #48
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Default Re: City Hatch as an alternative to Scorpio!

Friends, can i fit the Linea T-Jet plus's alloys to the Punto? they are 16 inchers, tyre size is 205/55 R16... Punto's stock tyre size is 195/60 R15. I dont mind that if it does not void the vehicle warranty.
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Old 7th January 2011, 00:27   #49
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Default Re: City Hatch as an alternative to Scorpio!

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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
Guys, one IMPORTANT question -
Does the punto 90 hp jerk on gear changes? I test drove the 75 bhp version but did not feel any jerk but I have read reports that both the puntos jerk on gear changing. is this true?
There is no jerk whatsoever. Also, if you didn't feel a jerk in the 75PS model, there's none in the other one.

I am not sure about the alloys.
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Old 8th January 2011, 20:32   #50
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Default Re: City Hatch as an alternative to Scorpio!

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There is no jerk whatsoever. Also, if you didn't feel a jerk in the 75PS model, there's none in the other one.

I am not sure about the alloys.
yes, there is a small jerk in the 90hp punto.

Took a test drive of the 90hp Punto today. It was a long 15-20 kms drive which included both city & highway drive.

I liked the driving position, the build quality, the ride & the sturdiness, i have said this before.

but the engine performance is still below par. the first gear is useless, second gear is okay, third is okay, fourth & fifth is good.

Except for the engine performance, i am totally sold on the punto. If at all the punto, i am yet to decide whether i should buy the 75bhp or 95hp...
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Old 8th January 2011, 21:35   #51
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Default Re: City Hatch as an alternative to Scorpio!

Hey Raj, let me tell you that Punto's engine keeps getting better with every km you clock. My car is nearing 35k mark and the difference in performance now and when it was new is quite considerable. The 3rd gear now revs freely till 4k mark. Another noticeable difference was in NVH, Punto never had harshness, but it used to groan loudly if it's pushed. I'm noticing quite a remarkable difference in NVH levels too.

You might have changed gears at a little higher rpm, that could have caused the jerk. Ideally you should have changed gears anywhere between 1600 and 2000rpm. If you aren't convinced, just take another TD. And I'm sure once you get this beauty, you will surely find it difficult to replace this beauty with any other hatch in the future.

Last edited by CliffHanger : 8th January 2011 at 21:37. Reason: typo
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Old 8th January 2011, 21:40   #52
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Default Re: City Hatch as an alternative to Scorpio!

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Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post

You might have changed gears at a little higher rpm, that could have caused the jerk. Ideally you should have changed gears anywhere between 1600 and 2000rpm. If you aren't convinced, just take another TD. And I'm sure once you get this beauty, you will surely find it difficult to replace this beauty with any other hatch in the future.
How do you manage changing gears at those engine rpms? I cannot change below 2500-3000rpm otherwise the acceleration is too slow.

Raj the performance does improve a whole lot 5000kms.
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Old 8th January 2011, 22:01   #53
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
...but the engine performance is still below par.
How many kms did the test drive car have in the odometer? I'm asking you this because, FIAT engines are known to get better as days pass by.
Quote:
The first gear is useless, second gear is okay, third is okay, fourth & fifth is good.
The trick is that you should upshift the 1st and 2nd gears quickly and let the fun begin with 3rd gear.

Quote:
Except for the engine performance, i am totally sold on the punto.
I agree with you on this.

Fiat brought the 100 BHP pocket rocket(read - Fiat Palio 1.6 BHP) when we, the Indians were not mature enough to prefer a performance oriented car over a fuel economical car. Now, we're ready to buy a performance oriented car from Fiat, but they don't offer one(the only exception in my book is Fiat Linea T-Jet). IMHO, Fiat must bring Fiat Punto with the 1.6 MJD.

May be Fiat is gonna loose a potential customer.Who knows?

Quote:
if at all the punto, i am yet to decide whether i should buy the 75bhp or 95hp...

As I've suggested you earlier, do take the test drive of both the cars, back to back. It will, for sure, help you to make a wise decision.

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Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
Ideally you should have changed gears anywhere between 1600 and 2000rpm.

If you change the gears quickly, then whats the fun in having a turbo charged car?

Btw, I've a neighbour who owns a Maruti Swift Dzire ZDi. He upshifts before 1500 RPM and he downshifts only when the car is about to stall. Sigh.

Last edited by Klub Class : 8th January 2011 at 22:19.
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Old 8th January 2011, 23:08   #54
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Default Re: City Hatch as an alternative to Scorpio!

Akshay & KC,

Well guys, I've to admit that that's the range where I generally up-shift. Reasons - When the Turbo kicks in, it accelerates pretty fast and requires a lot of attention to keep the car under control and avoid hitting the fellow road users. Punto being my daily ride, the drives are generally sedate. Not that I don't like quick acceleration, it's just that I avoid getting exhausted being attentive all the time. One more thing I noticed- Unlike the Swift, Vista, etc, Punto offers a pretty large amount of torque at bottom end, even at 10kmph it pulls cleanly from 3rd gear. I know you guys might call it lugging the engine, but I don't find the engine knocking at those speeds. It enables lesser gear changes and more relaxed in city drive.

It's a different story in highways though. I up-shift when the engine loses breath in each gear.
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Old 9th January 2011, 09:25   #55
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Default Re: City Hatch as an alternative to Scorpio!

Thanks a lot guys. Your posts are really motivating when each & everyone in my friend circle is advising me against the punto... Reasons said are - lethargic engine, poor resale & pathetic service.

i20 is the most preferred option by many but in my case, there is an emotional connect with the punto which is missing with the i20. I had this same connect with the scorpio & I feel this is very important when you buy a car. Your heart needs to accept the car, not your brain.

If i buy a punto, that would be a heart decision. I would NOT buy a punto with my brains, knowing that the service is bad & spare parts take forever to arrive!

I could still live with the poor A.S.S., but i still feel when i am playing close to 8 lakhs for a hatch, I do expect superior performance in the punto... the i20 offers everything from performance to reliability to resale value to good A.S.S., then why is my heart not accepting that car??? Ok, enough of theories now!

Spoke to the sales executive at Galaxy motors yesterday. Thanks to Team-BHP, I am aware of the diminishing sales figures of the punto. I used that & have asked him for a 35k discount. 50 month warranty is standard, which was a cost option before (Rs. 5000).

On-road price of 90 hp Punto Emotion Pack without discounts - Rs. 7,97,903

Even the brochure of Fiat Punto mentions Team-BHP on it! I am proud to be a part of this community...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
Hey Raj, let me tell you that Punto's engine keeps getting better with every km you clock. My car is nearing 35k mark and the difference in performance now and when it was new is quite considerable. The 3rd gear now revs freely till 4k mark. Another noticeable difference was in NVH, Punto never had harshness, but it used to groan loudly if it's pushed. I'm noticing quite a remarkable difference in NVH levels too.
Hi, the SA told me that the first 3 free services are at 15000, 30000 & 45000 kms on the ODO. You have to literally pay nothing till 45k for maintainence & service. Is that true buddy?

Quote:
You might have changed gears at a little higher rpm, that could have caused the jerk. Ideally you should have changed gears anywhere between 1600 and 2000rpm.
yes, i did rev the car till 2500-3000 rpm. below 2000 rpm, the car felt lifeless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
Raj the performance does improve a whole lot 5000kms.
okay. I am not interested in flat out acceleration. All i want is good driveability within the city. I hope the 90 hp is capable of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klub Class View Post
How many kms did the test drive car have in the odometer? I'm asking you this because, FIAT engines are known to get better as days pass by.
It had 2500 kms on the odo.

Quote:
The trick is that you should upshift the 1st and 2nd gears quickly and let the fun begin with 3rd gear.
Okay, so maybe i need to get used to the car. Are you saying, once we are accustomed to the gear ratios, the car is peppy in city?

Quote:
May be Fiat is gonna loose a potential customer.Who knows?
Only if the 90 hp offered the performance for the price FIAT is asking, it would have been a perfect buy for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
One more thing I noticed- Unlike the Swift, Vista, etc, Punto offers a pretty large amount of torque at bottom end, even at 10kmph it pulls cleanly from 3rd gear. I know you guys might call it lugging the engine, but I don't find the engine knocking at those speeds. It enables lesser gear changes and more relaxed in city drive.
Is this true? does the punto have that kind of low end torque?

Last edited by raj_5004 : 9th January 2011 at 09:26.
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Old 9th January 2011, 12:44   #56
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Default Re: City Hatch as an alternative to Scorpio!

Let me confuse you even more.

I bought the Alto K10 Vxi in August, one of the first one in the show room. Here are my observations.

. One of the best AC below 6L. The K series engines provide enough power to run AC in Delhi heat in stop and go traffic.
. One of the liveliest engine/car combo in the segment.
. Excellent FE in City. I get around 13-15 in heavy traffic with AC. On highways people have got 22-25.
. The largest seller hence spares are easily available.
. MUL Service is available every where.
. Like my Esteem, I can do 80-100 in second and then straight to fifth if I am in a hurry, excellent for city overtaking.
. Due to short wheel base, much better over speed breakers than saloons.
. The key has chip embedded, hence difficult to steal.
. Comes with no ICE, so you can put in your ICE without fearing warranty hassles.
. Rear seats fold over and with hatch door hinged at top you get tremendous space when you need it.

In short this is one of the best VFM. The down side

. Slightly cramped if more than two persons use it. Else with seat pushed back there is plenty of legroom.
. No rear defroster/wiper. i10 has it in the higher models.
. Extremely light car, hence feels jerky on rough roads. This is not an issue in low speed city traffic.
. OEM tyres require change. I put in Michelin on day one.
. Cable gear may require getting used to. Used to find it strange, but now used to it.

Now if you are going to use it mostly for office commute, and are not saddled with any passengers, this is the car to go for.
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Old 9th January 2011, 12:46   #57
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Default Re: City Hatch as an alternative to Scorpio!

I am glad you decided to go with your heart. IMHO, the Punto is a fabulous car and will serve you well. If you are worried about ***, there are a few Hyundai nightmares on this forum that you should read. Moreover, have a look at the resale market and you will find more i20s for resale than Puntos 'agree i20s sell more too, but the resale ratio seems more than the initial sale ratios).
IMHO, the *** guys at Fiat work well with a combination of a smile, a hand across their shoulder and a firm but polite words. From my friends' experiences, I can say that they are trying hard to improve. Perhaps we should help to channelise their efforts if we think they could do better.
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Old 9th January 2011, 16:43   #58
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Default Re: City Hatch as an alternative to Scorpio!

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Hi, the SA told me that the first 3 free services are at 15000, 30000 & 45000 kms on the ODO. You have to literally pay nothing till 45k for maintainence & service. Is that true buddy?
Raj, he is right. Here is the breakup of what I paid for each service till now.
1st service(3,000km) - nil
2nd service(15,000km) - 2,900.Rs
3rd service(30,000km) - 4,900.Rs( I was told that the engine oil filter will be changed for every 30k km, hence the extra 2000Rs)

Apart from this I've never spent anything for Punto's Service. Punto has been lighter on my pocket than some of my previos petrol cars. And let me tell you that this 15k service interval is really a boon for high mileage users. I do not have to keep thinking about getting my car serviced after doing a couple of long trips which I do while owning my previous cars.

Quote:
Is this true? does the punto have that kind of low end torque?
Do this test-
On a 60degree ramp, put the car in 1st gear and take your feet off the accelerator. Punto will lunge forward to the top of the ramp. I don't think any other car at least in its price bracket has this ability.

Last edited by CliffHanger : 9th January 2011 at 16:48. Reason: typo
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Old 9th January 2011, 19:02   #59
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Default Re: City Hatch as an alternative to Scorpio!

Thanks a lot guys. With a lot of help & support from you all & after lots of confusion, comparisons & apprehensions, I have finally zeroed in on the Punto. Whether i would go for the 90 hp or for 75 hp will depend on the discount the dealer is offering me on the 90 hp punto, which will be informed to me tomorrow evening.

Points where the i20 & the punto left other cars behind :
1) Looks
2) Desirability

I know cars which i dint even test drive, like the Figo & Micra & even the Swift diesel maybe a better performer... but i dint "want" those cars!

Now, points where the punto scored over the i20:

1) Most importantly, price. The i20 is way more expensive than the 90 hp punto & with the discounts on the punto, the gap further increases.

2) Punto VFM quotient. I want maximum bang for the buck. i20 is also feature loaded but I dont judge a car by counting features alone. Some features in the Punto like the classy European looks, the tank like build, the delightful steering & the superb ride cannot be fitted aftermarket in the Hyundai.

3) Since I have been driving a scorpio, I like cars with a heavy build & with that amazing "thud" when you close the doors. I love the way these doors seal you from the outside world. I feel safe in such cars instead of lightweight hatches. Many may think I am old school but thats just me!

4) Overall desirability factor. The punto is giving me everything i want for a lesser price & the i20 is giving me everything that i like, for more money. I choose my need. when i look at a punto, when i sit in it, I smile. Not so in the i20. dont ask me why... I have no answer for this.

Apprehensions :

1) Poor after sales service nightmares are already haunting me! I can already see myself standing outside TATA A.S.S. waiting for my car's parts to arrive!

2) Lethargic acceleration is also a major issue. coming from a scorpio, i am used to that instant push in the back experience. I will have to sacrifice that.

3) No electrically retractable mirrors! Somehow, i fancied this feature in the i20 a lot. missing in the punto, so sigh..!

I dont think about resale value when buying a car. why bother about selling your car when you have not even owned it for a day? so thats not an issue. So, inspite of all the above apprehensions, I am listening to my heart & going for the Punto. I thank you all again. You all have been of great help.

@ Mods:
Please dont close this thread yet. I may still have some doubts regarding booking, freebies, PDI, etc!

EDIT:
By the way, my brother loves the Linea now! He is pushing me to buy the Linea diesel instead of the punto! I like hatches & SUVs, so its the Punto for me. Also, for city driving, why do i need a sedan? Why do i need to carry that boot with me always?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
Let me confuse you even more.

I bought the Alto K10 Vxi in August, one of the first one in the show room. Here are my observations.
You dint confuse me...

I am not looking for a petrol car. Moreover, I am 6'2" tall, i dont fit in an Alto!

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
I am glad you decided to go with your heart. IMHO, the Punto is a fabulous car and will serve you well. If you are worried about ***, there are a few Hyundai nightmares on this forum that you should read.
I read about the Hyundai nightmares. Thats when i thought, even Hyundai is not a saint & I am better off taking a risk with Fiat rather than Hyundai.

Of course, with Fiat, I am taking a bigger risk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
Raj, he is right. Here is the breakup of what I paid for each service till now.
1st service(3,000km) - nil
2nd service(15,000km) - 2,900.Rs
3rd service(30,000km) - 4,900.Rs( I was told that the engine oil filter will be changed for every 30k km, hence the extra 2000Rs)
There you go! This is what i asked him. He actually told me bill would be Rs. 0 in all 3 services, which i refused to believe.

I did ask him whether we would have to pay the charges for consumables to which he said, I would have to pay nothing!

Quote:
Do this test-
On a 60degree ramp, put the car in 1st gear and take your feet off the accelerator. Punto will lunge forward to the top of the ramp. I don't think any other car at least in its price bracket has this ability.
Thats a trait of a powerful diesel, I like that.

Last edited by Zappo : 10th January 2011 at 01:01. Reason: Removed an additional smiley.
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Old 10th January 2011, 10:44   #60
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Default Re: City Hatch as an alternative to Scorpio!

Congratulations Raj!! Punto is one haunting car you will remember for a long time.
But be wary, do a thorough PDI before you take the delivery. Check all the plastic fittings, rubber beadings, door locking mechanisms and everything, check the car inside out. A trend I've seen so far is that a car with initial niggles seems to carry that forward for quite a while. So don't miss to do a thorough PDI.

OT: One more thing, just read that you are 6'2". I'm wondering, if you were so tall, your decision should have arrived a lot earlier. Because, I'm 6'3" and have never been comfortable driving Japanese and Korean cars, at least hatch backs and even the Corolla Altis. Just my strange observation - European cars are better suited for those who see the world at over 6feet from the ground.

Last edited by CliffHanger : 10th January 2011 at 10:49. Reason: missed a OT point
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