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Old 3rd July 2011, 19:44   #1
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Default Issue with Honda dealer's (Magnum Honda) engine damage assessment

Hello all,

I am posting this incident (and subsequent queries) on behalf of a friend.

One Honda Civic, belonging to my friend, broke-down after one day post servicing by the dealer after having done 50 kilometers. It actually emitted fumes and had knocking sound. Honda guys gave the following reasons:

“There signs of water entry into the air intake passage for engine assembly and other components.
Based on the inspection it has been clearly established that water ingress has indeed taken place which has lead to bend of connecting rod causing abnormal sound and thus leading to failure of the engine parts.”

Car has done under 39,000 kms since it was bought in August 2006. It never met with any accident or has had any repair issue ever. Honda and dealer guys were asked to confirm if the vehicle seems to have waded through deep water. But a strong silence on this subject so far. Same reaction when asked where in Bangalore do you get water deep enough within 20 odd kilometers from where the vehicle broke-down. Neither confirmed nor denied

Honda dealer guys also keep saying that Civic is one vehicle that is too low and it can suck up water from the road. So the deep water might actually be just an imagination and water can go in even when you drive on a damp road. (!!!) There is no way you can reach anyone in Honda and the best customer bet is to be redirected the same person who serviced the car and ruined it.

Repair is estimated to cost around 3 lacs. And also that any car with repaired engine is not even as good as an ambassador – you at least get road side mechanics to attend to car if the amby breaks down.

Can anyone offer any help on how to proceed in the matter? What are the chances that vehicle was not properly attended to when it was serviced and air-filter etc were changed?

Cheers
Rishi
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Old 4th July 2011, 15:41   #2
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Default Re: Issue with Honda dealer's (Magnum Honda) engine damage assessment

oooh, this could be bad news for your friend.
hydrolock.
As far as i know it is fairly immediate, ie, you wouldnt have been able to drive 50kms with it gradually growing into a total failure,
I mean, within a few cycles, the water would have reached the engine.
perhaps, more experienced people can confirm/refute this?

Howver, i dont think youll be able to take the fault to the service station.
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Old 4th July 2011, 18:43   #3
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Default Re: Issue with Honda dealer's (Magnum Honda) engine damage assessment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hells Bells View Post
One Honda Civic, belonging to my friend, broke-down after one day post servicing by the dealer after having done 50 kilometers. It actually emitted fumes and had knocking sound.
If the car hasn't been driven through water, and if your friend is ABSOLUTELY SURE, the service guys are scoundrels. They have definitely messed something up. You'll be surprised to know of some instances reported on the forum where the car was running dry of oil after a service. Was your friend watching the temp gauge? What if the cooling fan malfunctioned.

As Mayankk posted, if your engine suffers a hydrolock from driving through floods, it will usually, immediately die out (not always the case, but in a majority of them).

- Please post a scanned copy of the estimate provided that lists what all parts are damaged.

- Get an independent evaluation done, from an expert garage, ASAP. Post the findings here. Someone who isn't affiliated to this particular dealer should be able to give an honest assessment of the damage and, more importantly, the root cause.

Last edited by GTO : 4th July 2011 at 18:50.
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Old 4th July 2011, 19:11   #4
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Default Re: Issue with Honda dealer's (Magnum Honda) engine damage assessment

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
If the car hasn't been driven through water, and if your friend is ABSOLUTELY SURE, the service guys are scoundrels. They have definitely messed something up. You'll be surprised to know of some instances reported on the forum where the car was running dry of oil after a service. Was your friend watching the temp gauge? What if the cooling fan malfunctioned.

As Mayankk posted, if your engine suffers a hydrolock from driving through floods, it will usually, immediately die out (not always the case, but in a majority of them).

- Please post a scanned copy of the estimate provided that lists what all parts are damaged.

- Get an independent evaluation done, from an expert garage, ASAP. Post the findings here. Someone who isn't affiliated to this particular dealer should be able to give an honest assessment of the damage and, more importantly, the root cause.
GTO, my initial thoughts to my friend were on the same lines that typically the hydrolock would happen immediately once the water has entered the engine. However, the way I read it from above comments, it may (?) happen sometime after the water has entered the engine.

I would ask my friend for the scanned copy of estimates. He is currently trying to get an alternative assessment from Whitefield Honda but not sure if that counts as an "expert garage"? Any comments or suggestions for Bangalore?
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Old 27th July 2011, 16:17   #5
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Default Re: Issue with Honda dealer's (Magnum Honda) engine damage assessment

After the engine was opened up, Honda’s quote and observation is given below. According to them,

"Vehicle is driven in water logged condition or splash of water entering into the Bonnet & through the Front grill. As a result the water has entered through Air Filter into the Inlet manifold"

Now it is clear that vehicle never entered anything called deep water. It was not even raining. And the road was dry and had no water logging. Photo of the road where the break-down happened and damaged parts is also given. I cross checked with other folks. Their views are:

1, If this was a water issue it would not only affect one cylinder . Also where the connecting rod snapped there was no damage to the crank shaft at cylinder 3 or at all. This tells you it was not a water issue. If water was in this motor where's the oil sample with water in it and the crank shaft would be damaged if it took in water. Those pictures speak for itself.

2. This was an overheating issue due to a blocked oil passage or they forgot to add oil when doing the last repair. Also water can never get into the air filter box because it is sealed. Because it overheated and once it got hot enough is snapped a rod. Water there would be rust and more then one cylinder would be damaged. So this is not a water issue your vehicle would have to be under water for water to get into the air filter.

And if the car can suck in water through front grill (as HONDA says it did in this case) , is it not criminal on the part of HONDA to sell a car which is not road worthy as it cannot be used in rains. What if this happens at a speed of 120kmph +. You get killed and kill few others on the road. Car actually emitted smoke from engine before it broke down.

Insurer is likely to decline the claim. According to policy, the followings are covered:

• Loss or damage by accident, fire, lightening, self-ignition, external explosion, burglary, housebreaking or theft, malicious act.
• Riot and strike; terrorism; earthquake; flood, cyclone and inundation.
• Whilst in transit by rail, road, air, elevator, lift.
• Liability for third party injury /death, third party property damage.

If what Honda is saying is true, though we know it is untrue, should it not fall within the meaning of inundation?

Can we get some views from the experts on how to purse this case through legal means? Are there any certified professionals in and around Bangalore who can guide my friend on the future course to pursue? Also please review estimate critically like their estimates to replace all 4 pistons and connecting rods. For some reason, Honda wants to check suspension though no problem was reported by my friend.
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Old 27th July 2011, 16:49   #6
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Default Re: Issue with Honda dealer's (Magnum Honda) engine damage assessment

Looks like they are palming off the blame onto you. Have you ever seen how these grease monkeys wash the car? They open the bonnet and spare water directly onto the engine

There is a good posiblity that this may have been the case with your friends car.
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Old 10th August 2011, 10:23   #7
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Default Re: Issue with Honda dealer's (Magnum Honda) engine damage assessment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hells Bells View Post
Hello all,

I am posting this incident (and subsequent queries) on behalf of a friend.
*Bump*

Any update?
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Old 17th August 2011, 14:15   #8
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Default Re: Issue with Honda dealer's (Magnum Honda) engine damage assessment

Quote:
Originally Posted by mac187 View Post
*Bump*

Any update?
Hey Mac187,

As per the last update from my friend, it is still the case you also mentioned i.e. passing on the buck to us. Let me see if there is any good news from his side.

Cheers
Rishi
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Old 17th August 2011, 14:28   #9
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Default Re: Issue with Honda dealer's (Magnum Honda) engine damage assessment

If they say that water entered through the air filter box, it is possible that the service technician who attended this car left the box open. At day end when the wash the car and engine bay, considerable amount of water entered the box and got sucked up in the engine. However, I cannot be sure of this theory unless I see the air filter box and placement on the Civic.
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Old 17th August 2011, 14:28   #10
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Default Re: Issue with Honda dealer's (Magnum Honda) engine damage assessment

Such a pity, even for a 10lac+ car, one needs to fight with the jokers at A.S.S. What about the concept of permium service?
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Old 1st September 2011, 14:21   #11
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Default Re: Issue with Honda dealer's (Magnum Honda) engine damage assessment

I am sure your friend would have contacted/involved Honda directly regarding this serious problem suspected to have been caused by mishandling/misjudgement by the dealer.
What is their response?
Is there any insurance such as "professional liability insurance" that is available with the dealer that can cover this damage.
Of course for this to work, Honda and their dealer should acknowledge this problem as to have been caused by them. It is difficult, but not impossible.
However considering the amount of money involved your friend may need the help of a good lawyer to enforce his rights and claim compensation.
Please update this issue periodically as this would be helpful for other members in case there is any such problem in the future
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Old 14th November 2012, 14:53   #12
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Default Re: Issue with Honda dealer's (Magnum Honda) engine damage assessment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hells Bells View Post
Hey Mac187,

As per the last update from my friend, it is still the case you also mentioned i.e. passing on the buck to us. Let me see if there is any good news from his side.

Cheers
Rishi
Is there any update regarding the situation? I am planning to give my car for a major service, and this story makes me wary.
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Old 14th November 2012, 15:00   #13
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Default Re: Issue with Honda dealer's (Magnum Honda) engine damage assessment

From the last input I received from my friend (on whose behalf I had posted), it appears the damage happened due to the improper spray wash of the engine bay at the service center. And I do know his car is dinged as he is not willing to accept a refurbished engine'd car.
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