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Old 16th December 2011, 11:09   #16
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Default Re: Be ready to get exploited to Buy a Mahindra XUV 500

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Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
May i suggest (although this might sound a very drastic measure), to walk away from the deal. We customers in India are quiet lenient and hence manufacturers or dealers occasionally take customers for ride.

As a customer you have taken multiple test drives and finally chosen a car you like, walking away does sound like start over again, but remember unless customers do that this will keep going on and on. This high headedness needs to be pushed back. They think one customer going away will not matter, but when many do it they would notice it and come down.

I walked away from a manufacturer after a decent debate on price rise etc where in i felt like i had to buy a car at gunpoint hence walked away. On XUV500 try going to some other dealer, escalate to manufacturer or AM and see what happens, but be mentally ready to walk away.
+1 to that..just walk away or walk to another dealer! nothing hits them where it hurts the most like not buying their car! Can you imagine if all of us start doing that? It may or may not be the manufacturers fault but ultimately he has the biggest stake in it so he better look into these issues. Someone has to make a start! You be the hero.
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Old 16th December 2011, 11:16   #17
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Default Re: Be ready to get exploited to Buy a Mahindra XUV 500

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Originally Posted by KPS View Post
Wonder why there is so much hysteria for making a payment early?
Why?, because its not the norm, 20 years ago if someone said FIAT/Premier have mandated to pay cost of car in full, or maybe Maruti has asked to pay amount in full, i would have been grumpy but obliged. Today when the market does not function this way why should Mahindra.

Most manufacturers ask the full payment when the car is in stockyard and ready to be delivered, what stops them following the same practice. Its not as if XUV500 isn't selling and there is a possibility of them sitting long on an unsold piece (If the buyer pulls off) so its now about killing speculation.
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Old 16th December 2011, 11:25   #18
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Default Re: Be ready to get exploited to Buy a Mahindra XUV 500

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Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
Most manufacturers ask the full payment when the car is in stockyard and ready to be delivered, what stops them following the same practice.
Agree with this. I clearly remember that I had booked my Scorpio by paying only Rs.10k, paid my share of the on-road price after the vehicle was dispatched and handed over the loan amount after I had physically inspected the vehicle allotted to me in the dealers stockyard.

AFAIK, most dealers and manufacturers follow the above process [maybe with a little bit of tweaking]. In fact, this should be the norm in this day and age of every segment having so many options. Unfortunately, the quick-buck mentality seems to have taken priority with this M&M dealer and the Cust Care official.

Cheers,
Vikram

Last edited by comfortablynumb : 16th December 2011 at 11:27.
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Old 16th December 2011, 11:31   #19
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I guess it's because people usually defer deliveries during december. They want to be sure you will not do the same.
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Old 16th December 2011, 18:11   #20
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Default Re: Be ready to get exploited to Buy a Mahindra XUV 500

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Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
Why?, because its not the norm, 20 years ago if someone said FIAT/Premier have mandated to pay cost of car in full, or maybe Maruti has asked to pay amount in full, i would have been grumpy but obliged. Today when the market does not function this way why should Mahindra.

Most manufacturers ask the full payment when the car is in stockyard and ready to be delivered, what stops them following the same practice. Its not as if XUV500 isn't selling and there is a possibility of them sitting long on an unsold piece (If the buyer pulls off) so its now about killing speculation.
As you wrote before the customers have the option to book a different model or walk away.

It is not only the customers but also the manufacturers that do have their rights.

Nobody complains when companies reduce prices on a slow selling product, so why complain when a company is trying to make money on a hot seller?
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Old 16th December 2011, 18:35   #21
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Default Re: Be ready to get exploited to Buy a Mahindra XUV 500

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Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
Why?, because its not the norm, 20 years ago if someone said FIAT/Premier have mandated to pay cost of car in full, or maybe Maruti has asked to pay amount in full, i would have been grumpy but obliged. Today when the market does not function this way why should Mahindra.

Most manufacturers ask the full payment when the car is in stockyard and ready to be delivered, what stops them following the same practice. Its not as if XUV500 isn't selling and there is a possibility of them sitting long on an unsold piece (If the buyer pulls off) so its now about killing speculation.
What you and I may consider as the "norm" may be a compulsion in M&M's view based on a desire to pamper the customer!

In this particular instance i.e. WRT the XUV 5OO maybe they do not feel the need?

Will it hurt them? Maybe or Maybe not. Time will tell. However they have the privilege to decide the terms of business when they sell a product. We either agree or we walk.
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Old 16th December 2011, 21:59   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vina

As you wrote before the customers have the option to book a different model or walk away.

It is not only the customers but also the manufacturers that do have their rights.

Nobody complains when companies reduce prices on a slow selling product, so why complain when a company is trying to make money on a hot seller?
So if a customer is buying a car on loan, he will have to pay in full and start paying interest and s/he doesn't even know how long will it take to get the car. I don't know current wait period for XUV5OO but looking at various threads, it is at least around 2 months if not more. And in case of W8 AWD - it's even longer.
As a customer, why should a person bear interest cost without the car? When I bought Merc C220 last year, the dealer booked car without even a down payment and I just paid a down payment of 1l on 29 lacs Rs. car after one week of booking. Remaining amount was paid when dealer received the car in yards and was inspected by me.
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Old 16th December 2011, 22:31   #23
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Quoting the emails for all

3/12/2011
Dear Sir
We are pleased to inform you that the Mahindra XUV500, booked by you as per enclosed details will soon be delivered to you.

Details of your booking

Model : W8

Color : white
Date of Booking : 05.10.11

Customer Id : C120577317
Booking Amount : 40,000/-

The indent of the vehicle as per your demand has been generated by Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd. We are expecting the delivery of the same in near future.


You are requested to arrange balance payment of Rs.1282404/- within next 7 days to avoid delay of delivery. Please note that in case balance payment is not deposited by 11-12-2011, the vehicle will be delivered to the next customer in the waiting list and you will lose the seniority.

Please note that price prevailing at the time of delivery will be applicable.

For any other clarification you may contact the Concerned Experience Executive or the undersigned.


Warm Regards,


Rajiv Bhatia
8130296750
Rb.xuv500@sterlingmotorco.in

Date 13.12.2011



R.K DHINGRA CO.

This is in reference to your previous letter of Mahindra XUV 5oo. In order to facilitate a smooth and speedy process of driving home your much awaited XUV500, we would like to request you to kindly complete the funding and other paperwork for your XUV500 till 15th Dec 2011.

We would also like to inform that we have kept a window of maximum ten days from the promised delivery date for you to take delivery of the vehicle. If the funding and other formalities are not completed and hence delivery not taken within this period, your booking for XUV500 will automatically stand cancelled and the vehicle will be re allocated to the next customer in the priority of booking.



Anticipating a positive and prompt reply.



Thanking You,

Sincerely,

Rajeev Bhatia

( Sales Manager )

Mo- 8130296750

And the final reply from mahindra asm received today.


Dear Mr Nipun,

Thanks for patronizing Mahindra .

Refer telecon I had tried to reply to your queries mentioned below to my fullest.

1) Sterling demanding payment in advance- As explained over the phone that we have ramped up the production at our level & in order to maintain the seniority we are requesting all customers whose CPD (customer promise date) is coming till 5th Jan 2012 to deposit the balance amount with their respective dealerships on receiving of the letter within next 7days.

2) Your demand to extend the time duration of payment for another 2 to 3 days- Sir we have no concerns we will wait for another 3 days & I am communicating the same to Mr Girish (GM sales Sterling) he will wait for the agreed time.

Once gain thanks for considering Mahindra vehicle & welcome to the family.

Please feel free to write or call for any further query.

Regards
Puneet Sethi
ASM

Tel:-022-28849034

So its clear that its clear that this policy is from the company itself.
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Old 16th December 2011, 22:40   #24
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I cant cancel the booking as I am really hooked to xuv and i have waited 3 months for it.

Moreover the prices are expected to increase soon.

But One thing that i want to clarify is that m&m is asking for money around 15-20 days before the system generated tentative date of delivery. But in most cases, cars are delivered 5-10 before the tentative date. So your money will stay with the dealer of 5-10 days.
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Old 16th December 2011, 23:50   #25
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Default Re: Be ready to get xploited to get xuv

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Originally Posted by jpm View Post

Coming back to this issue, Why does this remind me of the Nano Scheme that TATA cooked up alongwith SBI? Tata to Aam Admi: 'We dont know if and when you will get your Nano sir, what with Mamta pushing us around. But you, an honest man, must pay your monthly interest and the EMI from today for the car that will potentially and eventually be yours anytime between tomorrow at 9 and next year. You have a good one now[/b]
JPM, with due respect, I feel this seems to be Tata bashing. There is a difference in approach here. When Tata Nano booking was made, the procedure was crystal clear and people who booked knew this is how it is going to be and all the guys who booked it was in full agreement with the procedure. If I am not mistaken, they even paid interest on the amount collected (not 100% sure, but vaguely remember reading so).

However, here there is nothing out publicly if this is a policy. So I would like to call this case as showing of their ego and hardheadedness (or might be dealer trying to show off). There is no issue in telling a customer that the booking can only be made by making the full payment of the model he/ she is going to buy, but that should be announced and should be known to all. Else, the effort he/ she has taken in shortlisting that specific model/ brand would be wasted (if he/ she is not in agreement to this model).

I would relate it like - booking a train/ air ticket in advance. You pay full amount and do the reservation for a future journey and travel on the intended day. Similarly, I don't see any issue in Mahindra asking it's prospective customers to pay in full, but advertise it and make this policy public and applicable to all.

Last edited by Jakku : 16th December 2011 at 23:54. Reason: Added the interest part.
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Old 17th December 2011, 00:03   #26
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 Exploitation : FULL payment required with no promise of delivery

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Originally Posted by vina View Post
Nobody complains when companies reduce prices on a slow selling product, so why complain when a company is trying to make money on a hot seller?
Because it's not a question of making money on a hot-selling product. Whether you receive the money 20 days before delivery or 5, you are still receiving all the money. But by giving the dealer the entire amount, you, as a buyer, are taking on some additional risks.

What if there's something wrong with the car, and upon inspection you find that you cannot accept this car. You reject it, but the dealer has already got your money...he will be in no mood to help you get your replacement car quickly, what with others waiting in line with the full amount ready to be paid for their cars.

I'm not saying it's a probability. I'm just saying it's a possibility. When you are spending so much on a car, you bloody well have a right to check it before you buy it. As for Beemers or other brands following this practice, those companies have built their brands on the basis of their professionalism and reliability over the years. If they defaulted or created problems for their customers, they wouldn't be so popular. When you pay the full amount for a BMW, you can rest assured that there will, in all likelihood, not be a risk of getting something faulty or messed up when it arrives.
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Old 17th December 2011, 00:16   #27
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 Exploitation : FULL payment required with no promise of delivery

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Originally Posted by nipun dhingra View Post
....1) Sterling demanding payment in advance- As explained over the phone that we have ramped up the production at our level & in order to maintain the seniority we are requesting all customers whose CPD (customer promise date) is coming till 5th Jan 2012 to deposit the balance amount with their respective dealerships on receiving of the letter within next 7days.
....

So its clear that its clear that this policy is from the company itself.
For a 12L amount, the interest for even one month could be 10,000 INR. That's a sizeable chunk of money. This policy change is definitely not in favour of customers.

Did not understand what has ramped up production got to do with full payment. Also what do they mean by "maintain the seniority"?
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Old 17th December 2011, 00:29   #28
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 Exploitation : FULL payment required with no promise of delivery

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Originally Posted by Nitrous Power View Post
So if a customer is buying a car on loan, he will have to pay in full and start paying interest and s/he doesn't even know how long will it take to get the car. I don't know current wait period for XUV5OO but looking at various threads, it is at least around 2 months if not more. And in case of W8 AWD - it's even longer.
As a customer, why should a person bear interest cost without the car? When I bought Merc C220 last year, the dealer booked car without even a down payment and I just paid a down payment of 1l on 29 lacs Rs. car after one week of booking. Remaining amount was paid when dealer received the car in yards and was inspected by me.
There is one reason why the customer should bear the cost - he wants the car more than the other options available. If you don't like it, walk away.

Merc doesn't want the money - who cares? I booked my Figo with Rs. 5000, they promised delivery in four weeks, delivered 4 days later, if the dealer had asked for 50k I would have given it, if he had asked for 1L I would have bought a Swift instead.

Mahindra is not putting a gun to anyone's head. You can argue whether this is a smart move or a stupid move (I personally believe they are either super smart - there is something none of us knows, or they are bloody stupid). HOWEVER please do not act as if anybody is being victimised - you have options.



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Originally Posted by PhX View Post
Because it's not a question of making money on a hot-selling product. Whether you receive the money 20 days before delivery or 5, you are still receiving all the money. But by giving the dealer the entire amount, you, as a buyer, are taking on some additional risks.

What if there's something wrong with the car, and upon inspection you find that you cannot accept this car. You reject it, but the dealer has already got your money...he will be in no mood to help you get your replacement car quickly, what with others waiting in line with the full amount ready to be paid for their cars.

I'm not saying it's a probability. I'm just saying it's a possibility. When you are spending so much on a car, you bloody well have a right to check it before you buy it. As for Beemers or other brands following this practice, those companies have built their brands on the basis of their professionalism and reliability over the years. If they defaulted or created problems for their customers, they wouldn't be so popular. When you pay the full amount for a BMW, you can rest assured that there will, in all likelihood, not be a risk of getting something faulty or messed up when it arrives.

It isn't a bait and switch, and you ALWAYS take a risk - what if you find a problem one week after delivery.

Anyway, my argument is that there is no moral high ground available to the guys who don't like this - if you don't like the deal, just walk away. Call Mahindra stupid or whatever, but they are not forcing you to buy nor are they doing anything illegal or even immoral.
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Old 17th December 2011, 00:40   #29
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There is one reason why the customer should bear the cost - he wants the car more than the other options available. If you don't like it, walk away.
In pure economics, you're right. Demand and supply. And that's the law of the jungle/market/automotive industry(?). The question still arises whether it's ethical.

Secondly, when you do things right or do things that your customer appreciates, you're building reputation and customer delight. That's never a bad thing.

Quote:
Mahindra is not putting a gun to anyone's head. You can argue whether this is a smart move or a stupid move (I personally believe they are either super smart - there is something none of us knows, or they are bloody stupid). HOWEVER please do not act as if anybody is being victimised - you have options.
I think in the OP's case, it is a case of being victimised. To receive a mail saying "Please have 12 lakhs ready within the next x days or you lose your car. kthxbai" is unfair, especially when it's not how the market has been functioning. You're taking advantage of the fact that this guy has already booked his car with you, and he's rejected every other car for the last 2 months. They know they've got you hooked. You're not going to back out now because you're already emotionally invested in your car. I'm sorry, but to me, it clearly feels like they are taking advantage of people.

Quote:
Anyway, my argument is that there is no moral high ground available to the guys who don't like this - if you don't like the deal, just walk away. Call Mahindra stupid or whatever, but they are not forcing you to buy nor are they doing anything illegal or even immoral.
Illegal? No. Immoral or unethical? That's subjective. In my opinion, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth, especially if it's not handled well.

Quote:
It isn't a bait and switch, and you ALWAYS take a risk - what if you find a problem one week after delivery.
Then you're just bloody unlucky, aren't you? But my point is still valid. At least with other dealers, you have the peace of mind that you can reject the car at some point before taking delivery and know that your money is safe. If you've paid the money, then you're going to have to accept the car, no matter what, or potentially face an unhelpful dealer (the unhelpful dealer part is hypothetical, of course. You could very well have one who's morally upright and takes it upon himself to see that you get your replacement in time).

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Originally Posted by SDP View Post
Did not understand what has ramped up production got to do with full payment. Also what do they mean by "maintain the seniority"?
I'm guessing that ramped up production means they're in a hurry to sell off the cars. It's like saying "Yo, we heard that the demand for our cars is really high. So instead of waiting for days for y'all to do your registration and stuff, we're gonna take all your money quickly and start shooting out cars at super-quick speed".

"maintain seniority" --> Probably refers to maintaining your position at the head of the queue.

@Mods: Sorry for the double post...I noticed his post after I posted mine. If you could merge this post with my previous one, that'd be great. Thanks.

Last edited by Technocrat : 17th December 2011 at 01:43.
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Old 17th December 2011, 01:02   #30
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Default Re: Mahindra XUV500 Exploitation : FULL payment required with no promise of delivery

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Originally Posted by PhX View Post
... The question still arises whether it's ethical.
I don't see any ethical problems at all if the company is upfront about it. If they raise it a few months after the booking - that does raise troubling questions. However XUV500 booking had been stopped AFAIK and reopened recently, so if anybody chose it over other products, that inconvenience is probably a week long or so (at worst).

I'm not sure whether people who booked it long ago are being asked to deposit - and even in that case it may not be so bad, read on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhX View Post
Secondly, when you do things right or do things that your customer appreciates, you're building reputation and customer delight. That's never a bad thing.
That's a good thing, and as I wrote earlier I believe Mahindra folks are bloody stupid in doing this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhX View Post
I think in the OP's case, it is a case of being victimised. To receive a mail saying "Please have 12 lakhs ready within the next x days or you lose your car. kthxbai" is unfair, especially when it's not how the market has been functioning. You're taking advantage of the fact that this guy has already booked his car with you, and he's rejected every other car for the last 2 months. They know they've got you hooked. You're not going to back out now because you're already emotionally invested in your car. I'm sorry, but to me, it clearly feels like they are taking advantage of people.
Read this post http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2613294 (Mahindra XUV500 Exploitation : FULL payment required with no promise of delivery date) this is also written by OP. In fact in the very first post he mentioned that delivery will be within 10-15 days.

The emails make it very clear that the OP can take his time, Mahindra cares about the money being ready at the time of delivery (i.e. no delays on account of customers' inability to meet finances) - what's wrong with that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhX View Post
Illegal? No. Immoral or unethical? That's subjective. In my opinion, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth, especially if it's not handled well.
Why is there a presumption that whoever is posting on TBHP is posting the whole truth and nothing but the truth - even decent folks who never intentionally lie may leave out unflattering detail at the time of their first post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhX View Post
Then you're just bloody unlucky, aren't you? But my point is still valid. At least with other dealers, you have the peace of mind that you can reject the car at some point before taking delivery and know that your money is safe. If you've paid the money, then you're going to have to accept the car, no matter what, or potentially face an unhelpful dealer (the unhelpful dealer part is hypothetical, of course. You could very well have one who's morally upright and takes it upon himself to see that you get your replacement in time).
It isn't mere plain unlucky - Indian legal system is screwed up, but evenn under Indian laws you can sue. In U.S. people of course do sue.

Even if you've paid the money, you can reject the car, there is no compulsion. You'll lose the interest and there will be inconvenience - you got bloody unlucky in your parlance - but that poor luck is much better than what you call unlucky.

Last edited by Technocrat : 17th December 2011 at 01:52. Reason: Corrected the Quotes, thanks
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