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Old 17th March 2009, 06:48   #211
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sumit Bhatti View Post
True, what else can you expect @ 6 paise per liter commission for the COCO labor contractor ?
Quite right. But if we think of it, everyone who is corrupt says they do it because they are underpaid. Problem is determining what is the right amount of pay.

By the way Doc, since you have some insight into fuel pump operations may be you would know :- Why in India we still dont have self service type of fuel stations? These types of pumps could reduce the operations costs considerably.

Regards,
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Old 19th March 2009, 03:04   #212
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Cool ATC is the final answer.

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Originally Posted by blacmagic View Post
folks, I have a suggestion to make. when marking a pump as good / bad, why not use Wikimapia - Let's describe the whole world!
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Originally Posted by blacmagic View Post
we need a way to be able to know whether a pump is delivering good or bad fuel. once we have this information and begin to patronize the relatively honest pumps, we will have taken the first step towards achieving what you so rightly mentioned in your previous post.
Worth a try. I have noticed that Team BHP members are fairly accurate in identifying consistently good petrol pumps.

We must remember, that, even writing HIV positive on a patient's case paper is considered a breach of confidentiality and discrimination by labeling !

Until Automatic Temperature Correction of the fuel that we buy is not implemented in India, every customer is cheated every time, irrespective of the petrol pump !
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Old 19th March 2009, 17:20   #213
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sumit Bhatti View Post

Until Automatic Temperature Correction of the fuel that we buy is not implemented in India, every customer is cheated every time, irrespective of the petrol pump !
The storage temperature of fuels matter, there are certain practices where the fuel is slightly heated prior to pumping, this decreases the density and increases volume to a marginal effect say approx 1.-2% tops,

However do not expect Temperature controlled storage systems at pumps,

Source - own pump
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Old 19th March 2009, 19:13   #214
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Some of the best places for filling in bangalore are

1. Bowring Petrol bunk next to Bowring institute
2. Reddy's at Sheshadripuram (petrol only)

some of them to avoid are
Vybhav petro point (Indian Oil) at Basaweshwara nagar water tank that is near shankarmutt. the quality of fuel is fine but the dispensers at the bunk try to cheat you if you are not noticing the amount.
if you try to fill for 100Rs worth of Petrol then one of the ways they try to cheat is by telling that they have to note the days count and then they put within 1 ltr (less than 40 Rs worth) of petrol and then fill 1 lt again and if you are not noticing the meter then they will charge 100Rs.
This has happened to me twice and after which I complained Indian Oil but still got no response from them
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Old 20th March 2009, 03:41   #215
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Cool Unmanned Petrol Stations.

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Originally Posted by amohit View Post
Why in India we still dont have self service type of fuel stations? These types of pumps could reduce the operations costs considerably.
True, unmanned, self service stations will be cheaper to construct and run. Another interesting development that I have read many years ago is the development of robotic arms that will recognize the vehicle and find the tank lid as per the model and fill hydrogen fuel as per the capacity. I have also seen a concept for an automatic tire pressure checking and air filling machine.

Some of the problems in India are:
1. Labor is still cheaper. I wanted to set up an automatic car wash in the 1980's but decided against it due to reasons that hold good even today: its much cheaper to get some person to wash your vehicle (outside and interiors) for an entire month at a fraction of the cost of one (outer) automatic car wash!
2. Integrity: an unmanned petrol station will be a 'soft' target in a country where people will even risk their lives to puncture high pressure pipelines, pilfer LPG from a pressurized LPG tanker with an ordinary garden hose, deface even public property, pilfer fuel from sealed tankers, cut and collect nozzles /hoses/ pump side panels and motors as souvenirs or just sell them in scrap.
3. In many countries, unmanned pumps are used in rural areas, but may be considered in the near future in urban areas first. The nearest to an unmanned pump I had heard was from Reliance which was planning to use its Infocomm arm to power this system with its payment through mobile facility and R-world back-up. (But mobile usage at the petrol pump...even CDMA?)
4. No level playing field: PSU oil companies are subsidized, while private oil companies are not. Petrol and Diesel pricing has not been deregulated yet. New companies which are more likely to set up this system are unsure of the future.
5. Use of plastic money and e-cash is still relatively new in our country.
6. Electronic surveillance systems have improved and become cost effective only in the last decade.
7. NEFT (National Electronic Fund Transfer), ECS (Electronic Clearing Service) and RTGS (Real Time Gross Settlement) is just being introduced in the PSU petrol pumps with a target of achieving 20% of all petrol pump transactions by RTGS this year.
8. Employment generating potential of the petrol pumps will reduce drastically. This point slows down government approach to this type of petrol pumps.
9. Safety aspects of unmanned petrol stations will have to be anticipated and addressed.
10. Simple unforeseen problems like disabling Auto-fill. Imagine what could happen if a previous customer or a friend hands you a nozzle that has not been unlocked or by mistake locked at the trigger and you or another friend/ family member generally shuts off the dispensing unit by hand (this will invariably happen one day when we self-fill regularly) and punches your pre-set and releases the nozzle cradle lever. In such a situation you will have no control over the flow if the nozzle has not been introduced into the tank yet. This mistake has been made by petrol pump attendants especially at two/three wheeler points. I have treated a couple of patients who have been drenched in petrol by such mistakes. At 40 to 70 liters per minute, the flow of fuel can pack quite a wallop!
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Old 20th March 2009, 08:42   #216
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what are the best places to fill up in Noida.

-hdi
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Old 22nd March 2009, 17:05   #217
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Cool Temperature Compensation.

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Originally Posted by mmmjgm View Post
The storage temperature of fuels matter, there are certain practices where the fuel is slightly heated prior to pumping, this decreases the density and increases volume to a marginal effect say approx 1.-2% tops,
However do not expect Temperature controlled storage systems at pumps,
Source - own pump
I agree; there can never be Temperature Controlled Storage Systems at petrol pumps. What I am suggesting is Temperature Compensation or Volume Correction of Petrol and Diesel. The same 1-2% (loss) effect that you have mentioned also affects the petrol dealer because in India Petrol Dealer margins are around 2% !

Temperature Compensation or Volume Correction is practiced through-out the World and in India for inter PSU Oil Company sale and transfer, payment of Central Excise, Oil Company Sales Tax returns and even to COCO outlets. In many other countries, it is also applied through an Automatic Temperature Compensator for customers also. Please go through the following thread in detail: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ty-diesel.html (How to ascertain purity of Diesel)

If you carefully see your own petrol pump invoice, you will notice a column (that has been always printed on your bill but never filled) for conversion of the quantity billed to you into the theoretical quantity at 15 C. Your purchase bills would then fall by 1 -3 % !

P.S.: I liked your website (SPOTNANA::First & Business Class International Travel) design. Its very well done.
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Old 22nd March 2009, 21:28   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmjgm View Post
The storage temperature of fuels matter, there are certain practices where the fuel is slightly heated prior to pumping, this decreases the density and increases volume to a marginal effect say approx 1.-2% tops,

However do not expect Temperature controlled storage systems at pumps,

Source - own pump

Last night at around 10:30 I asked the attendant to fill petrol to a bottle (for my bike - someone stole when parked at basement). To my surprise, it was hot! i said hot coz, at that night it was even more than a warm in temprature to feel.

mmmjgm had already answered before even i ask here.

I filled at BP putrol station opp. to Manipal Hosptal on old-airport road.
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Old 23rd March 2009, 03:37   #219
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Cool Hot Petrol ?

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Originally Posted by shyamhegde View Post
Last night at around 10:30 I asked the attendant to fill petrol to a bottle (for my bike - someone stole when parked at basement). To my surprise, it was hot! i said hot coz, at that night it was even more than a warm in temprature to feel.
mmmjgm had already answered before even i ask here.
I filled at BP putrol station opp. to Manipal Hosptal on old-airport road.
Exactly what I am trying to emphasize here: The hotter the petrol you buy, the lesser the number of molecules of petrol per unit volume you get.

By definition, 'Warm' petrol is about 17 C and signifies approximately 0.25% difference in volume. 'Hot' petrol is about 24 C and signifies approximately 1% difference in volume. (Source: NEL, UK Report)

In contrast, distinctly hot petrol, as you have felt would be above 30 C. That would be at least 2 % less energy per unit volume for your purchase.

A petrol dispensing unit with an ATC (Automatic Temperature Compensator) would have delivered 2% or more petrol depending on the temperature of the petrol, for the same amount of money that you had paid.

Again I would recommend that you may please go through the following thread in detail: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ty-diesel.html (How to ascertain purity of Diesel)

One more common reason (besides the ones I have explained in previous posts) for getting hot fuel in the night is when a petrol tanker has recently been emptied into the underground storage tank which has a low level of previous stock. Then the hotter new stock will heat the lesser cooler stock and the entire stock of fuel will now be higher than the temperature of the surrounding soil/earth. Most Petrol Pumps in the Metros and large cities receive fuel supplies at least once, twice or even thrice a day.
This is what must have happened.
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Old 23rd March 2009, 18:33   #220
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Which of these are the two most trust worthy and two to avoid?

1. BP on Jeevan bhima nagar main road
2. BP on Tippa sandra main road
3. HPCL coco on airport road next to wind tunnel road
4. BPCL opposite Manipal.
5. IOC next to police station NGEF
6. IOC opposite Indiranagar RTO office
7. IBP on jeevan bhima nnagar opposite coffee day

do add any other pump within 3 KM range of CMH road,80 feet road junction.

I'm not adding Shell near big bazzar in old madras road as Shell is known for quality and honesty, issue being mostly price and less # of pumps overall.
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Old 23rd March 2009, 23:37   #221
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Originally Posted by marlinspike View Post
Which of these are the two most trust worthy and two to avoid?

1. BP on Jeevan bhima nagar main road
2. BP on Tippa sandra main road
3. HPCL coco on airport road next to wind tunnel road
4. BPCL opposite Manipal.
5. IOC next to police station NGEF
6. IOC opposite Indiranagar RTO office
7. IBP on jeevan bhima nnagar opposite coffee day

do add any other pump within 3 KM range of CMH road,80 feet road junction.

I'm not adding Shell near big bazzar in old madras road as Shell is known for quality and honesty, issue being mostly price and less # of pumps overall.

1. BP on Jeevan bhima nagar main road > My regular one. No tricks so far.
2. BP on Tippa sandra main road > Irresponsible attendants. But no tricks
3. HPCL coco on airport road next to wind tunnel road > They tricked me once
4. BPCL opposite Manipal. > My regular one. Find them alright. But you see my post above - Petrol was hot enough at close to midnight!
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Old 24th March 2009, 01:13   #222
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HPCL coco on airport road -> my regular one, but be alert else they may trick you
IOC -> strict no no

Quote:
Originally Posted by marlinspike View Post
Which of these are the two most trust worthy and two to avoid?

1. BP on Jeevan bhima nagar main road
2. BP on Tippa sandra main road
3. HPCL coco on airport road next to wind tunnel road
4. BPCL opposite Manipal.
5. IOC next to police station NGEF
6. IOC opposite Indiranagar RTO office
7. IBP on jeevan bhima nnagar opposite coffee day

do add any other pump within 3 KM range of CMH road,80 feet road junction.

I'm not adding Shell near big bazzar in old madras road as Shell is known for quality and honesty, issue being mostly price and less # of pumps overall.
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Old 24th March 2009, 10:24   #223
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Default List of COCO outlets for BP/HP/IOC ????

My brother went to a Pump with COCO banner opposite AIPT, near kothari wheels on Solapur road.
The Pump attendant refused to punch the amount in machine, reply came that the punching mechanism is not working, to report this he went to pump manager, asked him that why this is not working. The shocking reply is that "Jo karna hai karlo, ye pump aisa hi chalta hai". As fuel is low in his bike he filled for 100Rs and taken the bill. He is going to complaint about this incident.

But Is this Pump is genuine COCO outlet? It might happen that this pump is COCO outlet previously and after contract is completed its handed to private operators? Is there a way to determine which pumps are COCO or there is any website which contains list of COCO pumps.

I found a link but i assume it's not correct:
Oil Companies
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Old 25th March 2009, 19:00   #224
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Question AIPT or ASPT ?

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COCO opposite AIPT, on Solapur road.[/url]
Did you mean opposite ASPT ?
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Old 25th March 2009, 21:22   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shyamhegde View Post
1. BP on Jeevan bhima nagar main road > My regular one. No tricks so far.
2. BP on Tippa sandra main road > Irresponsible attendants. But no tricks
3. HPCL coco on airport road next to wind tunnel road > They tricked me once
4. BPCL opposite Manipal. > My regular one. Find them alright. But you see my post above - Petrol was hot enough at close to midnight!
Thanks, Shyam and a_mukherji for the inputs. I'll stick to BP JB nagar and HPCL outlets when I don't feel inclined to do a detour to shell.
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