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Old 8th September 2012, 20:27   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy

So If I take your car for a joy ride without taking permission from you and cause and accident, you would be fine with claiming your insurance as long as I pay your deductible and NCB.

Even ignoring the moral issue in this, what about about the loss of your car's value because it's been in an accident?

Again, even ignoring the moral issue and loss of car's value, why shouldn't the dealer's insurance be used?
Actually there is no moral issue in this. Agree the joy ride was unacceptable behaviour. But we all know that controlling every individual who works for an organisation is tough. So the dealer ought to compensate for the loss - viz pay the deductible + no claim bonus for a couple of years, perhaps give some compensation in addition (say free labour for future services) and the customer should be willing to close the matter. As someone said, insurance is valid as long as any driver with a valid license is operating the car.

I know that at least at Autobahn Skoda, you actually sign a disclaimer while handing over your car which says that any damage caused by the dealer would be repaired using the Customer's insurance - I would expect all dealers to have similar clauses.

And I don't see why the customer is lambasting VW for this - dealers are not agents of manufacturers, they are independent contractors who provide a service to both customers and manufacturers. This is clearly not the same as a dealer stealing parts as happened with one of the Bombay Skoda dealerships.
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Old 8th September 2012, 20:40   #62
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Default re: KSM Motors smashes customer's Jetta on a joyride. EDIT: New replacement car!

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Originally Posted by SDP View Post
3. The fair-price of the Jetta (before the crash) from the dealer and at least a couple of lakhs more as compensation for the mental agony.

The options are: Go for one of the above settlements OR go to the court.
I would suggest that he claim insurance (they will pay 85% IDV) and demand a couple of lakh from dealer as compensation.
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Old 8th September 2012, 20:42   #63
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Default re: KSM Motors smashes customer's Jetta on a joyride. EDIT: New replacement car!

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Originally Posted by zoombiee View Post
"we were given an estimate of INR 42,700 for the servicing and same was approved by us over email"

This looks quite out of the place. How does a bill run up to 42k for a supposedly normal oil service and how was that approved by the customer?
Exactly my thoughts when i read this first time.
And I am also puzzled about this.
How can a "regular" service bill come to nearly 43K and get approved by the owner as well??
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Old 8th September 2012, 20:55   #64
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Default re: KSM Motors smashes customer's Jetta on a joyride. EDIT: New replacement car!

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Originally Posted by SDP View Post
Looking at the damage as detailed in the album on FB, I don't see any point getting this car repaired.

3. The fair-price of the Jetta (before the crash) from the dealer and at least a couple of lakhs more as compensation for the mental agony.

The options are: Go for one of the above settlements OR go to the court.
I wouldn't really consider that an option. Let's say they offer 10 lacs for the car. Buying a new one in the same segment would still mean mean another 7 to 10 lacs from the owner's side, right?
What if he had been intending to use the car for some more years before shelling out money on a new one?

And looking at the pics posted on facebook, I don't think the car can be repaired. The engine has been damaged to an extent, and I think probably the chasis too.
http://https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151040563271993.417089.501296992&type=3

Last edited by one-77 : 8th September 2012 at 21:02.
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Old 8th September 2012, 21:10   #65
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Default re: KSM Motors smashes customer's Jetta on a joyride. EDIT: New replacement car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
Exactly my thoughts when i read this first time.
And I am also puzzled about this.
How can a "regular" service bill come to nearly 43K and get approved by the owner as well??
May be because the vehicle is company registered. Higher expenses on paper help everybody involved.



Quote:
Originally Posted by one-77 View Post
I wouldn't really consider that an option. Let's say they offer 10 lacs for the car. Buying a new one in the same segment would still mean mean another 7 to 10 lacs from the owner's side, right?
What if he had been intending to use the car for some more years before shelling out money on a new one?
...
That's why it is called a 'compromise'.
There are no perfect solutions here. The only perfect solution is if they can go back in time and stop the joyride and the subsequent chaos.

Last edited by SDP : 8th September 2012 at 21:16.
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Old 8th September 2012, 21:18   #66
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Default re: KSM Motors smashes customer's Jetta on a joyride. EDIT: New replacement car!

After going through the FB snaps, there is no point in taking this car repaired as the damages are too big and expensive.

As per KSM's offer in initial post, accept the Directors car of similar make and model but without any extra payment, if there is no emotional attachments with this car. In return, support them with best possible way to get this car repaired using insurance and handover to KSM. Let them sell or retain it.
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Old 8th September 2012, 21:20   #67
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Default re: KSM Motors smashes customer's Jetta on a joyride. EDIT: New replacement car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
Actually there is no moral issue in this. Agree the joy ride was unacceptable behaviour. But we all know that controlling every individual who works for an organisation is tough.


I know that at least at Autobahn Skoda, you actually sign a disclaimer while handing over your car which says that any damage caused by the dealer would be repaired using the Customer's insurance - I would expect all dealers to have similar clauses.
I agree with you on this bit – you give the car for service, an accident can happen during the confirmation drive (mistake of the ASC staff, or the other party). There is no moral issue if they are honest about the incident, but that’s not the case here. In this case, they tried to hide this as a minor accident, and then add on to the cover-up stories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayek
And I don't see why the customer is lambasting VW for this - dealers are not agents of manufacturers, they are independent contractors who provide a service to both customers and manufacturers. This is clearly not the same as a dealer stealing parts as happened with one of the Bombay Skoda dealerships.
If I appoint an independent contractor to act on my behalf, I would expect him/her to behave and adhere to my company’s policies, and if this person is bringing in a bad reputation or negativity to my organization, the immediate next step will be to ask for an explanation, or to the extreme, terminate the contract. So even if VW is not directly responsible for this incident, a proper action or feedback to the customer would have really helped the cause. After all, the customer has bought their product, not the contractor’s (dealer).

Last edited by vb-san : 8th September 2012 at 21:29.
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Old 8th September 2012, 21:20   #68
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Default re: KSM Motors smashes customer's Jetta on a joyride. EDIT: New replacement car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDP View Post
May be because the vehicle is company registered. Higher expenses on paper help everybody involved.
I don't get it - 'on paper' meaning what? Are you saying that the company will get a bill for 43K, but will pay lesser or what?
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Old 8th September 2012, 21:21   #69
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Default re: KSM Motors smashes customer's Jetta on a joyride. EDIT: New replacement car!

I have had a short yet eventful relationship with KSM Motors and I have to say that neither the accident nor the reaction actually surprises me. IMO they are a scumbag of a workshop and thats why I changed my workshop for my Vento . Some of the things about KSM which i hated are :-
1. Ill trained workshop personnel - between BHP-ian miharbe, el lobo and myself we taught them a few things about Vento's features ! I can't trust them with my car
2. Professionalism is a word that does not exist in their dictionary, one can get his/her car a couple of days late without any explanation
3. The workshop uses cars given for servicing , repairs to ferry customers between workshop and KSM Nerul showroom as well as dropping off employees to the nearest Bus stop / station - complete morons !
4. One stunning incident - for Ventos the fuel filter has to be replaced every 15000 kms , my car ran 26000 kms without a fuel filter change because KSM Motors was not aware of fuel filter change interval during the first service . Had my car conked off, who would have been the fall guy for voiding of the warranty ?
5. Feedback system is always down so one has to swallow the frustration.

Any interaction with KSM used to spoil my day so I decided to given them the boot from my life .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
And I don't see why the customer is lambasting VW for this - dealers are not agents of manufacturers, they are independent contractors who provide a service to both customers and manufacturers. This is clearly not the same as a dealer stealing parts as happened with one of the Bombay Skoda dealerships.
I agree with you but a company like VW is expected to step in ( arm twist / coerce dealer ) to ensure that this PR disaster is contained and a customer is adequately kept happy when its a clear case of callous workshop guys not following instructions. VW has very strict guidelines on what the workshop can do and can't do, anyone who visits any of the workshop can see the same displayed upfront - the internal guidelines are even stricter, certainly taking a customer's car out for doing anything but related to the job card is not allowed. As far as I know, VW even sets limits on the max number of vehicles that a workshop can take for servicing / repairs per day based on the number of bays and size of workshop but that's not followed by any workshop due to greed. As you correctly mentioned , these guys are independent contractors and cannot be micro managed. Sadly our jugad culture has screwed up the entire scheme, its funny that people proclaim " the germans are taking Indians for a ride " - lets look at ourselves first before hollering against the global conspiracy against Indians
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Old 8th September 2012, 21:45   #70
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Default re: KSM Motors smashes customer's Jetta on a joyride. EDIT: New replacement car!

I once test drove an Passat from Chennai. The worst thing that could happen is to break down during an TD. Had to catch an auto from the spot and drove off on my car with out entering the showroom again. Promised myself never to set foot on another Volkswagen showroom ever. VW attitude towards India is pathetic. A bit thumbs down.
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Old 8th September 2012, 22:07   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san
I agree with you on this bit – you give the car for service, an accident can happen during the confirmation drive (mistake of the ASC staff, or the other party). There is no moral issue if they are honest about the incident, but that's not the case here. In this case, they tried to hide this as a minor accident

If I appoint an independent contractor to act on my behalf, I would expect him/her to behave and adhere to my company's policies, and if this person is bringing in a bad reputation or negativity to my organization, the immediate next step will be to ask for an explanation, or to the extreme, terminate the contract.
Agree that the initial attempt to hide things was inappropriate. But I have no experience of KSM Motors and if this had been a one off and the dealer had told VW that he is willing to compensate if the customer decides what (apart from turning back the clock) he wants, they may decide to let the dealer handle it. Plus as the customer seems to have started blaming VW instead of KSM, they may have even been given legal advice not to get involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by souravc
I have had a short yet eventful relationship with KSM Motors and I have to say that neither the accident nor the reaction actually surprises me. IMO they are a scumbag of a workshop and thats why I changed my workshop for my Vento

I agree with you but a company like VW is expected to step in ( arm twist / coerce dealer ) to ensure that this PR disaster is contained and a customer is adequately kept happy when its a clear case of callous workshop guys not following instructions. VW has very strict guidelines on what the workshop can do and can't do ...Sadly our jugad culture has screwed up the entire scheme, its funny that people proclaim " the germans are taking Indians for a ride " - lets look at ourselves first before hollering against the global conspiracy against Indians
Now this is a cause for concern. Have you complained to VW as well? If they have received multiple complaints about customer cars being used as ferries and poor service, and have not yet taken action, that would be disappointing. At any rate, thanks for the feedback - I will stay a million miles away from KSM (is this VW Navi Mumbai or VW Mumbai East or VW Thane?) if and when I buy my Vento (assuming they ever give me clarity on delivery times).
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Old 8th September 2012, 22:34   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayek

And I don't see why the customer is lambasting VW for this - dealers are not agents of manufacturers, they are independent contractors who provide a service to both customers and manufacturers. This is clearly not the same as a dealer stealing parts as happened with one of the Bombay Skoda dealerships.
Of course,they are the end point of VW.
VW doesn't sell cars to customers directly. do they ?
Your view though new, isn't valid.

They are not providing service to the customers. VW needs dealers to sell cars and VW is required by the law to provide service and support to the cars they sell.

VW can certainly exert pressure on the dealer to resolve the issue in the customer's favor,
which they are not.

Last edited by F150 : 8th September 2012 at 22:35.
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Old 8th September 2012, 22:36   #73
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Default re: KSM Motors smashes customer's Jetta on a joyride. EDIT: New replacement car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
This is scary!

Skoda or whichever manufacturer, i always ensure to mention- NO ROADTEST on job card with clear instructions not to take my car out whatever the circumstances. The mechanics/staff at dealerships barely have managable driving skills and they drive your car like a stolen car.
I myself explicitly give it in writing and say the same to Service Manager.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
2) The dealerships have an upper-hand, and the manufacturer is scared to take action against them, especially with the fact that these dealerships are more like monopolized in different states/regions.
Take for example Jia Auto. Dealers of Skoda. The entire dealership of West Bengal for Skoda (around 6 of them) is with them. They would be having one of the strongest lobby @ Skoda.
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Old 9th September 2012, 00:15   #74
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This is shocking to the core. If VW is just sitting tight with hands folded, then they might as well pack their bags. I thought the group finally came around to listen to the customers as the Skoda horror stories were coming down recently. Sad state of affairs if it didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arjab
..Why don't you highlight this to the media ? Since the VW dealer has left a very convincing paper trail of the incidents, can the media not be roped in for coverage of such a issue showing blatant disregard for the consumer?
If this can be somehow taken up by Times NOW with Arnab Goswami hollering in his quintessential style, VW will definitely feel the pinch.
I doubt if mainstream media will cover this as its not an aam-aadmi problem, rather they may view this as some rich people fight (car involved is upmarket/premium car) unless the accident resulted into some casualty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drsingh
By visiting skoda and now VW dealerships a few times with friends or someone from work I always got this feeling that you buy these cars only if you're buddies with the owners of dealerships.idk about other premier brands, but professionalism is clearly lacking at these dealerships. After the sales, I mean.
Actually, from what I've experienced in their showroom, it applies before the sales as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san
..
If I appoint an independent contractor to act on my behalf, I would expect him/her to behave and adhere to my company's policies, and if this person is bringing in a bad reputation or negativity to my organization, the immediate next step will be to ask for an explanation, or to the extreme, terminate the contract. So even if VW is not directly responsible for this incident, a proper action or feedback to the customer would have really helped the cause. After all, the customer has bought their product, not the contractor's (dealer).
Yes, completely agree with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by F150
Of course,they are the end point of VW.
VW doesn't sell cars to customers directly. do they ?
..
VW can certainly exert pressure on the dealer to resolve the issue in the customer's favor,
which they are not.
Exactly. I can't imagine big manufacturers like VW letting their dealers spoil their name. Hope the sense prevails and soon!
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Old 9th September 2012, 01:30   #75
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Default re: KSM Motors smashes customer's Jetta on a joyride. EDIT: New replacement car!

Oh God. The horror stories continue. Sorry to hear this and this does not look like a simple accident. The way the rear seats are getting fungus i also feel if this had a water incident where the car fell into some pit or so.

This does not look like car being stationary and getting hit. It does look like the car had hit something, rolled possibly into a pit.

The fungus is something very suspicious.
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