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Old 10th November 2012, 08:17   #31
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Default re: Ravindu Toyota sells *Display* Altis to an unsuspecting customer

^
I too see the problem of defective car being sold rather than just a display car. In order to prove that the car is defective he can show that certain work was done on the car under warranty. The first service bill does mention something but it is coded and I can't make out much from it. Will need a part no. decoder.

The car was clearly not in new condition when sold. What are the things he can use to prove that it is a lemon?
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Old 10th November 2012, 09:55   #32
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Default re: Ravindu Toyota sells *Display* Altis to an unsuspecting customer

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Your colleague spent 15 lakh rupees without due diligence? The PDI (ARTICLE: Pre-delivery Inspection (PDI) & Check List) would have taken him all of 60 minutes.
Not many are internet Savy & they may have other source of inputs from Print media etc.So a PDI is best expected from a Team-Bhpian
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Old 10th November 2012, 11:05   #33
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Default Re: Ravindu Toyota sells *Display* Altis to an unsuspecting customer

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post



This is a mature community. If you want to discuss a problem, you should be prepared to have BHPians point the exact faults out. A thread that discusses a problem without a cause, or how the problem could have been avoided, is an incomplete thread.

Also, many of those newbies you speak about will be reading this thread (1000+ views already). If a visitor sees only this thread on Team-BHP, he'll become well aware of how to avoid facing the same problem himself.

Lastly, do note that there are some solid solutions also being provided.

IMP: Please reconfirm the dealer's name again and share it with us.
Points taken GTO and I agree with you.
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Old 10th November 2012, 11:32   #34
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I agree with GTO sir.

What i would add is, that even if a layman doesn't know about a PDI, i am sure if someone takes a delivery of a new car, there is a natural human tendency to check the car throughly.
I guess it is not just with cars but anything one buys.
The first thing someone looks at is the exterior and check for the dents and scratches.
The odo metre and all.
These are all very basic things.
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Old 10th November 2012, 15:49   #35
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Default Re: Ravindu Toyota sells *Display* Altis to an unsuspecting customer

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Originally Posted by fi.robin View Post
I too see the problem of defective car being sold rather than just a display car.

The car was clearly not in new condition when sold. What are the things he can use to prove that it is a lemon?
The showroom can(may) sell you a display car but cannot sell you a "Test-Drive" Car.

When i went for an XUV test drive, I wandered and sat inside the Xylo and Scorpio that was inside the showroom.

If you car is "damaged" / accident repaired before delivery, then it works out to be fraud.

Take pictures of the "painted" parts and blemishes on the fuel lid and send it to Toyota. Tell them clearly that it is a case of an accident car delivered to you. they are liable to tell you in case of an accident.

Collect the following
  • Pics of the color mismatch / blemishes in Fuel lid
  • the first service history that suggests some parts could be changed
  • A copy of the audio recording on your cellphone
  • History of all issues like boot lid not closing etc.
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Old 10th November 2012, 19:45   #36
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Default Re: Ravindu Toyota sells *Display* Altis to an unsuspecting customer

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Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
The showroom can(may) sell you a display car but cannot sell you a "Test-Drive" Car.
This is not correct. A TD car may also be sold by the dealer. When we test drove the Q3 a couple of months ago, the TD vehicle was orange (the colour .anshuman drove on the official Q3 review) and the SR said that newly arriving cars till the end of the year were only white. We specifically asked how much discount would be offered on the TD vehicle (OTR price for Q3 in PMC area is 45.x lac ). Were told that it would be about a lac or two off, not much.

To the OP: can you furnish some evidence of Toyota 'accepting' that a display vehicle was passed off as a new vehicle to an unsuspecting customer? I would imagine in such a situation they would be open to replacing the car or at least offering some significant cash incentive to retain the car to the customer.
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Old 11th November 2012, 00:11   #37
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Default Re: Ravindu Toyota sells *Display* Altis to an unsuspecting customer

As per my knowledge from the reading of this thread, the dealer has accepted that the car delivered was indeed a display vehicle. Hope you have some evidence of the same.

The second issue being whether a dealer can sell a Display Vehicle or not. A dealer can only sell you the car that you and the dealer have agreed upon. Again as fi.robin's friend had unequivocally told the dealer that he does not want the display car, hence the dealer committed fraud in furnishing a car which he knew to be a display car and still sold it as a brand new vehicle to his friend, regardless of the fact whether the vehicle was damaged or not. Infact, your friend by not agreeing to go for the display vehicle, had made his choice specific to non-display vehicles and hence had demanded for a specific good at the time of the contract of sale. The Sale of Goods Act 1930, Section 2(14) clearly states that :- " specific goods" means goods identified and agreed upon at the time a contract of sale is made . Hence the dealer has committed fraud irrespective of the fact whether the vehicle was a damaged vehicle or not.

Coming to the third issue, the dealer may say that you were given full opportunity to check the car before delivery and hence will "try" to pass on the blame to your shoulder. Remember that not all defects are visible to the naked eye on first inspection. Law of Torts states there to be two distinct type of defects, Patent Defects and Latent Defects. Patent defects being those which can be clearly seen for eg. a dent or a big scratch. On the other hand Latent defects are those which are not visible to the eye and only crop up once the user starts using the good or these can simply be said to be "hidden defects". Which also happened in your case as well.
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Old 11th November 2012, 05:49   #38
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Default Re: Ravindu Toyota sells *Display* Altis to an unsuspecting customer

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Originally Posted by Enigmatic View Post
As per my knowledge from the reading of this thread, the dealer has accepted that the car delivered was indeed a display vehicle. Hope you have some evidence of the same.
Lovely post Enigmatic, its a eye opener to some folks like me. Another point that i read somewhere in the first page was, You specifically asked Toyota and it was mentioned that Toyota does not sell Display car without informing the customer (and for this you have evidence). This too points to fraud committed by the dealer.

If i was you (or him rather). I would have gone public with this big time. How much so ever Ravindu is in hand-and-glove with TK, they would not like negative publicity, and i believe they need to be shown their place.
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Old 11th November 2012, 07:04   #39
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Default Re: Ravindu Toyota sells *Display* Altis to an unsuspecting customer

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Originally Posted by Enigmatic View Post
As per my knowledge from the reading of this thread, the dealer has accepted that the car delivered was indeed a display vehicle. Hope you have some evidence of the same.
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Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
Lovely post Enigmatic, its a eye opener to some folks like me. Another point that i read somewhere in the first page was, You specifically asked Toyota and it was mentioned that Toyota does not sell Display car without informing the customer (and for this you have evidence). This too points to fraud committed by the dealer.

If i was you (or him rather). I would have gone public with this big time. How much so ever Ravindu is in hand-and-glove with TK, they would not like negative publicity, and i believe they need to be shown their place.
He has the voice recording of conversation he had with the head of Toyota south zone where he/she has admitted that it is a display car.

He also has the voice recording of conversation with Toyota (customer care I think) where they have claimed that Toyota does not sell display cars.

He has the media option open but he is aware that media can be bought easily. Esp. as Toyota has made heavy investments in Karnataka. A friend of his has experienced it in a different situation at a different place.

I may also like to add that my friend seems to be decently connected (I haven't poked around though ). If it can happen to him, God save us lowly mortals. Perhaps the opposition is too strong.

Last edited by fi.robin : 11th November 2012 at 07:09.
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Old 11th November 2012, 07:41   #40
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Default Re: Ravindu Toyota sells *Display* Altis to an unsuspecting customer

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Originally Posted by fi.robin View Post
He has the voice recording of conversation he had with the head of Toyota south zone where he/she has admitted that it is a display car.

He also has the voice recording of conversation with Toyota (customer care I think) where they have claimed that Toyota does not sell display cars.
Sorry, I forgot about those. Prima facie it appears you have an extremely strong case for fraud and, instead of wasting your time with the dealer, you should escalate this to Toyota top management immediately making clear your intent to file a case if needed. Like others said, it seems to be a clear case of fraud and they should be held accountable for it.
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Old 11th November 2012, 08:08   #41
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Default Re: Ravindu Toyota sells *Display* Altis to an unsuspecting customer

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Sorry, I forgot about those. Prima facie it appears you have an extremely strong case for fraud and, instead of wasting your time with the dealer, you should escalate this to Toyota top management immediately making clear your intent to file a case if needed. Like others said, it seems to be a clear case of fraud and they should be held accountable for it.
A member of Toyota India (TKM) is also party to the negotiation, other than the dealer and my friend. I assume then that Toyota top would be involved. You can find the list of people involved in one of the earlier post.

He had send those recordings to both Toyota Japan and Toyota India.

The status as now is that the other parties have agreed to negotiate but not replace the car.

I will ask the question directly - Assuming my friend is unable to bargain for a new car the next option would be monetary compensation, what should be the minimum threshold he should stick to? What would seem reasonable here - 10 lacs + additional warranty, 10 lacs + free service till 4-5 years etc?
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Old 11th November 2012, 11:56   #42
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Default Re: Ravindu Toyota sells *Display* Altis to an unsuspecting customer

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Originally Posted by fi.robin View Post
I will ask the question directly - Assuming my friend is unable to bargain for a new car the next option would be monetary compensation, what should be the minimum threshold he should stick to? What would seem reasonable here - 10 lacs + additional warranty, 10 lacs + free service till 4-5 years etc?
According to Indian Law, they are liable to give you a new car. Do tell them this statement. If they are adamant, then only agree for monetory compensation. If you are ready to go the legal route, then you can tell them that you would meet them in court.

I am sure they would not give you a 10 lac discount. You must tell them, you have also had mental trauma and all this could have been avoided if you had purchased a Hyundai or a Maruti instead.

Ask for the following:
  • Replace Boot and boot fittings lie fasteners clamps etc
  • Replace fuel Lid
  • Repaint the whole car to the same color
  • 5 lacs compensation
  • 4 free services including taxes, charges, VAT etc(Bill should read as amount to be paid=zero)
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Old 14th November 2012, 10:27   #43
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Default Re: Ravindu Toyota sells *Display* Altis to an unsuspecting customer

I would like to thank you all on behalf of my friend. Bolstered by your comments he has put forward his demand and is willing to fight till end. The good thing is that the car is with him unlike Harish's case. He is fighting for replacement and compensation for mental agony.

I will keep you posted with updates.

Last edited by fi.robin : 14th November 2012 at 10:29.
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Old 14th November 2012, 19:24   #44
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Default Re: Ravindu Toyota sells *Display* Altis to an unsuspecting customer

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Originally Posted by fi.robin View Post
I would like to thank you all on behalf of my friend. Bolstered by your comments he has put forward his demand and is willing to fight till end. The good thing is that the car is with him unlike Harish's case. He is fighting for replacement and compensation for mental agony.

I will keep you posted with updates.
Could you update us what demands your friend has made and what has been their response till date? This will help follow BHPians

Last edited by scopriobharath : 14th November 2012 at 19:28.
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Old 14th November 2012, 22:15   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fi.robin
I would like to thank you all on behalf of my friend. Bolstered by your comments he has put forward his demand and is willing to fight till end.
I am not playing devil's advocate but I made a casual trip to ravindu toyota today and tried negotiating the rates for a toyota etios liva as a friend is looking for a hatch. After much bargaining, and drawing the sales person to a corner, I posed a wicked question: 'what's the best you can do if i opt for a display car?'. The sales rep immediately rushed inside to a manager's cabin (I suppose). After 5 mins, the sales rep returned with a firm NO!

The friend left her number with the sales rep. In case they come back to the negotiation table with a deal (that im not interested in anyway) I will update.

In case the rep doesnt get back, this means that this case by your friend has caused a dent already. Hurray!!

Last edited by mempheS.D : 14th November 2012 at 22:21.
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