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Old 26th November 2012, 13:16   #76
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

While Speedy's post does get everyone thinking what if - imho I think this incident did really happen. It's just luck that the errant employee chose Gondal's car, instead of all the other even more exotic ones lying there.

Regarding the GPS reading, anyone who's used GPS regularly in mumbai can tell you sometimes it does show erratic readings, so if you're moving on a road close to the mangroves, the gps might show your location as in the mangroves. Its a fairly common error.

Please also note the incident happened late at night. What would a customer go to the dealership at that time and do because presumably it would be locked up. If I was in Gondal's place i too would have gone first thing in the morning. Also, I dont think someone spending around a crore on a car would resort to silly stunts like this for some publicity.

Lastly, having dealt with Audi Mumbai West personally, anything is possible in that dealership.
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Old 26th November 2012, 13:33   #77
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

These things always get cloudy. People are different, but if I got an alert I would respond instantly, either go to the dealership or try to locate the car, rather than sit at home tracking the car and getting agitated, or wait till morning. Mainly to retrieve the car safely and prevent any chance of an accident or worse.

Of course it could be he read the alerts in the morning, but given he was tracking in real time unlikely. His response is unusual but then people are different.

Its a a matter of perspective, to the average user an expensive car like the Q7 requires immediate attention, for him maybe could have bigger things on his mind to expend effort immediately and dealt with it later.
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Old 26th November 2012, 13:35   #78
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

Quote:
Originally Posted by quickdraw View Post
Audi India insists that the car never left their workshop apart from the 10km test drive they take (which is also there on a separate day on GPS).
Thats exactly what I had asked - it clearly means there is a lot of tampering that goes on with the odo. Heck, it pains for such a premium buyer to be treated like that and it being denied not just at the dealer level but from the company itself.

Shame Audi !!

Edit: Wouldn't it have been a clever idea to make a police complaint right when the car was taken for a joy ride, showing the live gps log as a proof. The police could've gone to the service center and asked to show the car right then and there. Answer would've been - Hard working Audi dealer's employee was test riding the car for any issues in the middle of the night when everyone's sleeping.

Now, whatever I said in the last paragraph would be possible in a perfect dream and you know the obvious reasons - the efficiency of the Indian POLICE !!

Last edited by Fiest@DuraTec : 26th November 2012 at 13:47.
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Old 26th November 2012, 14:05   #79
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

Quote:
Originally Posted by manishk123 View Post
While Speedy's post does get everyone thinking what if - imho I think this incident did really happen. It's just luck that the errant employee chose Gondal's car, instead of all the other even more exotic ones lying there.

Regarding the GPS reading, anyone who's used GPS regularly in mumbai can tell you sometimes it does show erratic readings, so if you're moving on a road close to the mangroves, the gps might show your location as in the mangroves. Its a fairly common error.

Please also note the incident happened late at night. What would a customer go to the dealership at that time and do because presumably it would be locked up. If I was in Gondal's place i too would have gone first thing in the morning. Also, I dont think someone spending around a crore on a car would resort to silly stunts like this for some publicity.

Lastly, having dealt with Audi Mumbai West personally, anything is possible in that dealership.
That is my point a removable GPS or Tracking device can go erratic and log things that did not happen.

There are security personal at the workshops and even accidental cars do get taken to workshops at any hour. If a person has made a police complaint of theft..the police themselves will come with you to the mentioned location to varify and the gaurd has to open up the workshop. If you do know the person..you would know he is capable of resorting to such acts for publicity. A vehicle even if it for 50 thousand and bought with ones hard earned money would require immidiate attention in such a case. If say the car was involved in an accident or in any other activity waiting till morning would be neglegence on the owners part. If his claims are true he would have caught the person red handed instead of monitoring a tracker page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raul View Post
These things always get cloudy. People are different, but if I got an alert I would respond instantly, either go to the dealership or try to locate the car, rather than sit at home tracking the car and getting agitated, or wait till morning. Mainly to retrieve the car safely and prevent any chance of an accident or worse.

Of course it could be he read the alerts in the morning, but given he was tracking in real time unlikely. His response is unusual but then people are different.

Its a a matter of perspective, to the average user an expensive car like the Q7 requires immediate attention, for him maybe could have bigger things on his mind to expend effort immediately and dealt with it later.
IMO if a person has bigger things on your mind than a 1 cr car...he would not be watching a tracker monitor from 3am to 7:45am real time, he would be sleeping it off. He himself has mentioned this in the FB page as well as in the news paper. He has till date not made a police complain either..which is real fishy to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiest@DuraTec View Post
Thats exactly what I had asked - it clearly means there is a lot of tampering that goes on with the odo. Heck, it pains for such a premium buyer to be treated like that and it being denied not just at the dealer level but from the company itself.

Shame Audi !1
These cars have electronic trip meters which makes them less prone to tampering. Its also not a minutes job as the entire cluster has to be removed. I know this as we had opened the cluster for my friends porsche (not to tamper with its reading though). As per the claim the car comes back at 7:45am to the workshop..so i am sure it would have been spotted it entering the premises and also someone would have noticed the person fitting the speedometer cable and the cluster back. To eliminate this doubt the cars internal log which cannot be tampered with is being sought for by AMW. if this log is tampered with the car is not in a drivable state.

The person being of a high profile nature would have been entertained immidiately by the police. I have done a similar search and it takes a few minutes as the cops register an FIR and send a constable with you to varify the complaint.

Its easy to put allagations on someone based on what is read and other peoples opinions. The facts will come to light soon.

Last edited by speedy : 26th November 2012 at 14:09.
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Old 26th November 2012, 14:27   #80
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

Can the dealer tamper the ODO readings through VAG-COM?
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Old 26th November 2012, 14:50   #81
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
Can the dealer tamper the ODO readings through VAG-COM?
No it cannot be tampered in this way. The dial console has to be removed and the wire disconected and then refitted with the vag -com to delete any fault codes. A person who takes a car for a joy ride does not have spare time to first remove and then refit everything. Since the time of return is mentioned as 7:45am, its near impossible to do without getting caught and the owner taking his car first thing in the morning.
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Old 26th November 2012, 15:08   #82
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

My personal opinion is that it seems like the whole incident is a goof up with the GPS system. To me it looks like it either malfunctioned, or someone took it out of the car and carried it around. In my view:

1) It seems too far-fetched that someone from the dealer would drive around the whole night on unusual roads, evade the dealer's security and then finally go though the trouble of resetting the odo.

2) Also seems too far-fetched that the owner would go to such lengths to fabricate such a story which would ultimately lead to litigation between himself (only an individual) and a huge international corporation.

Obviously the above is only speculation on my part.
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Old 26th November 2012, 15:15   #83
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy View Post
Since the time of return is mentioned as 7:45am, its near impossible to do without getting caught and the owner taking his car first thing in the morning.
Is it possible for someone to remove that Purple device and put it on another car which was being used for a joyride?
Or does the Purple device sprout wings and fly across town?
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Old 26th November 2012, 16:30   #84
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy View Post
If it indeed it is a PR Excercise for Technopurple's Tracking device its a bad one as it shows the external cigrette lighter tracker malfunctioning and going haywire. I have seen the CCTV footage myself as my cars go to AMW too and i wanted to varify the facts before believing any single side. The only way of getting the actual facts varified is via the cars internal log that cannot be tampered with.

@ Poloman i do agree with you. People all over dont varify the facts and just jump the gun at blaming people..I did take 2 days to meet the people at AMW and hear their side of the story too before making any post. Its someones reputation at stake here.

It also could be to defame AMW and Promote the New Dealership in south Mumbai. Anything is possible.
Woo hoo conspiracy theories. They seem to be the rage now-a-days. (Also its verified not varified). I'll try and answer most of the things you've mentioned here as someone who knows whats been happening first-hand. Cool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy View Post
This seems to be a publicity stunt
How is this relevant? The people came, took the interview and left. No one has control over what they print. They never asked Vishal for all this information. A simple google search will yield you information about Vishal and what he does. Disclaimer, I work for Vishal but we've been friends for long before I started working for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy View Post
If you further note the first reaction of a person is to file a police complain and not sit watching your phone or compter updates for 4 hours. Then take your sweet time to come in the afternoon to the service center to check on your car and collect it too. The person could have even gone to the Service center to check if his car is there along with the cops..i am sure he would have either seen his car there or then found it mssing.. if the car was there a simple touch on the bonnett would have indicated if the car has been driven of been standing there. The first thing to do is varify the truth before going to the media or social pages.
He was out of station, he saw the update at 3am in the night and he never went to the service station, the car was collected by the driver. He posted online because thats what he does, he is a social media nut (His 13000+ Subscribers on Facebook and 22,000+ followers on Twitter is proof of that). Everybody who knows Vishal knows that he didn't do this for Publicity or to defame Audi or to sell that GPS gadget, your entire post seems biased and is actually personally attacking and questioning someone's (not corporation, individual) integrity. I have no clue why you would do that, I've been around here posting regular updates. You even know how to get in touch with me, howcome you never asked me what's going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy View Post
The tracker on his car is an external cigrette lighter one as to not hamper warrenties and i doubt it being 100% accurate or even proper. In the FB page Mr.Vishal. has been provided with the entry and exit log By AMW and it clearly states the entry and exit time and kms of the vehicle which add to 11 kms driven in the day time. To add to this Mr.Gondal has mentioned he is not sure what to believe his tracker or the log provided. He was also provided with the picture of the speedo of his car to which he doubts the authenticity. AMW themselves have 30 cars of their own which included the S4, R8 and the RS5, why would they want to take a customers car to joy ride.

If you see the tracking picture provided it shows gone through mangrves and driven on railway tracks..do you think the car would be in the condition it was in the press picture if it was driven through the mangroves...I offroad and have seen first hand if a car is taken through such places there would be millions of scratches on the car, which is not the case with this vehicle.
Vishal has the GPS log of that 11 km drive (I can post that if you want), he is not challenging that, he is challenging the register. The register is not maintained within 12am - Opening time anyways. Also when the GPS loses the satellites (this is my theory and I speak from experience using other trackers) it just shows a straight line between last known location and current location. Also again, he doesn't have any personal vendetta against AMW I have no idea why you brought that up again? And the part about the 30+ cars?? He is till date waiting for a response on this issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy View Post
The car movement is recorded but the distance 11.00 could have been read by tired eyes as 100. The divice being a removable accesory could have gone haywire if its not plugged in properly. I too have asked to be shown the cars internal log as that would not be wrong.

I just got off the phone with AMW, not only them but even for the Tata Nano a customer is asked to remove all expensive and removable accesories from the vehicle. In this case the person who came to drop the car mentioned it to be a GPS device and said he would like to keep it in the vehicle itself, AMW cannot force a customer to remove articles but warns the customer its done so at the owners risk. The removable tracker device was in the vehicle at the time.

I am just analysing things with a cool and unbiased view and stated my observations above. As informed to AMW the person was not in the city at the point and the next morning his people came to take the car from the service center in a hurry. He was busy making allegations on a social forum though on the same day.

Mr.Gondal has deleted posts that have questioned the actions on FB as well as put up a thank you note for BMW in regards to sending the Mini countryman to him for a test drive and further mentioned is it the next Batmobile. So doubts do get raised.
Although I will agree with the fact that you are analyzing whats been happening with a keen eye, your statements do come off as biased. Since you contacted AMW but never got in touch with me. You blame the tracker and Vishal on a number of occasions but never remotely accept the possibility what happened to be the truth.

Just to set the record straight, Vishal is a well known VC but does not hold any stake in the GPS tracker company. He called me recently asking about this Team-Bhp post where people are taking pot-shots at his integrity and questioning why he brought this to light. I would like to further clarify there is no ill will between AMW or Audi in general and Vishal. He is just awaiting an explanation on this to his satisfaction. Just like a normal man he is worried and scared about his car. When MINI sent over the car, he called me first thing. I actually drove the Cooper S Countryman and clicked that picture, we put up the picture because its a brilliant marketing exercise by BMW and they need to be applauded for that, and not because of some big conspiracy. Aaaand I am tired of typing now.

Also for the people writing this off as a GPS malfunction, with data in such vivid detail with timestamps, heading, speed etc. doesn't convince you I don't know what will. Unfortunately this is the only data Vishal has, and we've put it up for discussion and its certainly a possibility (I've explained above regarding the errors) but its highly unlikely.

Last edited by GTO : 27th November 2012 at 13:38. Reason: Personal attack bits removed from speedy's post. Hence, removing it from the quote here
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Old 26th November 2012, 16:57   #85
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

WOW! This looked fishy right from the beginning, and speedy's comments are just re-enforcing the same.

What nailed it was receiving a call from Techno-Purple asking if we would like to install GPS trackers on BMW's (Me being an ex employee at a BMW dealership). Since I was busy could not take much details, but for sure they would have advertised this incident!

Also it is not possible to tamper with odometer readings at an Authorised dealer using official equipment (Speaking of BMW) and I am sure Audi, Merc folllows the same.

Again BMW/Mini pitching in immediately to Mr. Gondals rescue does make it look like a big PR campaign!!

Last edited by Maverick5490 : 26th November 2012 at 16:58.
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Old 26th November 2012, 17:22   #86
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

Without speculating, I believe the following should be done at the earliest :-

1. Mr. Gondal gets the position verified by the GPS-Tracking company. And basis that files an official complaint. Honestly, I have more faith in a malfunctioning GPS than I do in a manually functioning register for in-out.

2. AMW should call for the car back and bring out the logs from the car, it could be a rogue employee who does this without AMWs knowledge. If they have a CCTV footage make it public. I'd be quite shocked if they do not have CCTV footage.

If Audi/AMW is so much in the clear, let them go public and nail the lie. Else, accept that it could have happened and apologise and move on.
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Old 26th November 2012, 17:26   #87
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I don't know what the actual reality is. The right thing to do might be to wait and find out.

But for those of you questioning this gondal chap (which is fine per se), you are all (speedy in particular) making some pretty personal comments. I do agree with speedy and the others that lets wait for more facts to come out before sledging audi. however, those same people who are claiming to undertake and professing making due inquiry before defaming Audi are themselves jumping to conclusions and making some pretty strongly worded allegations towards the individual here. You may think no end of yourselves, that's your prerogative but have the courtesy to try and find out some fact before sledging someone or alternately express your views in a little more balanced manner.

Disclaimer: I don't know AMW, Gondal, Gondal's colleague nor do I have investments in this purple whatever tracker or any other competing tracking device.
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Old 26th November 2012, 17:33   #88
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

I don't know why people are saying its a big deal to tamper with digital odos. I have seen such tampering happen on a number of ocassions and on cars of all shapes and sizes - including the European ones. And if you think that it is time consuming and expensive to alter digital odos - think again. Last month in front of my own eyes a car dealer sent over a Merc to reset odo to a person who does these kind of things. The car came back in less than an hour clocked back 40k kms. All for a royal sum of Rs 500.

Honestly I am very much inclined to believe Mr Gondal's version of things until Audi comes out with better proofs (CCTV footage of their workshop gates for instance) than pics of the odo and their in and out register. The second one is really funny

@Axe77 - Very sensible post mate.

Last edited by Cesc : 26th November 2012 at 17:37.
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Old 26th November 2012, 17:46   #89
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

What I found surprising in these 6 pages was that the dealer uses a handwritten notebook to keep track of vehicle movements, with millions of dollars of customers' assets under his watchful eye.

Not that Hyundai's service center that I use is any different, but made me wonder about Audi's "vorsprung durch technik"

Cheers,

Last edited by diffsoft : 26th November 2012 at 17:47.
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Old 26th November 2012, 17:52   #90
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

Quote:
Not that Hyundai's service center that I use is any different, but made me wonder about Audi's "vorsprung durch technik"
I think its just another additional record in any service station. The car would have been received in the system with VIN based record of service request.

More of common sense to have this additional check over Vorsprun durch technik.
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