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Old 27th November 2012, 19:28   #121
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

Absolute kudos to you Amit Jain. That is a very well writen post and at least for me the arguments that you have put forth address all misgivings in this thread about your company. The proactive manner in which you stepped forward to protect your brand should hold you and your company in good stead over the years.
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Old 27th November 2012, 19:39   #122
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

Let me be a bit blunt out here. I see a very bad pattern out here
  • Cause: @dkaile starts the thread and @quickdraw adds on with details providing the owner's data points. Effect: People start blaming the workshop/Audi/VW
  • Cause: @speedy raises some valid questions (even if the tone was questionable). Effect: People start blaming the owner/GPS company of PR tactics.
  • Cause: @quickdraw reverts to @speedy's questions/accusations. Effect: People start condeming @speedy's post.
  • Cause: @TechnoPurple gives a clarification giving their stand on this topic. Effect: People start focusing on the dealer again.

I respect @speedy in coming out with his opinion - whether it was biased/negative/one-sided, it had a fresh look at the incident. More important, I really appreciate Mr. Jain in coming forward and putting his point forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrman View Post
Is it just me or is VW having a huge following (Critics and fans) on TBHP where each thread will run into a few pages in no time. It at least elicits the most responses and opinions compared to other manufacturers, myself included.
I believe we all need to take a step back and stop ourselves on posting "accusatory" posts on any such "problem" thread that comes up; unless we have something concrete that will help the OP. Gone are the days when Skoda could be by default assumed the bad guy on this forum. Probably that's what is happening out here with VW (companies) where the bad guy is already assumed and several bhpians post "solutions" that hardly help the OP.

For e.g. search for "consumer forum" in the forum and you'll get the point I'm suggesting.



Disclaimer 1: I was the first one to raise the possibility of TechnoPurple using this incident to their benefit; and questioning the owner's connections with the GPS product company. @TechnoPurple - my sincere apologies and I hope you understand the reasoning behind my post.

Disclaimer 2: There are quite a few reasonable posts that defy the cause-effect flow as mentioned above. Just that I wanted to describe the overall theme of the thread and the opinion (changes) in the posts. Apologies to these bhpians - you'll understand what I'm stating.

Last edited by ninjatalli : 27th November 2012 at 19:43.
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Old 27th November 2012, 19:59   #123
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

Lets be reasonable and assume that the GPS data is accurate and that Gondal is being honest.

Assuming the above, there's only two possible situations i can think of:
A) The car was indeed taken out for a spin (a joyride someone thought he'd get away with)
B) The GPS device was taken out for a spin separate from the car (Someone trying to steal/sell the GPS device?)


Quote:
Originally Posted by quickdraw View Post
Apart from that they claim they have CCTV footage of the car, but the numberplate of the car is not visible in the video.
- Does the CCTV footage have a date & time-stamp?
- Surely the car moves later on in the footage, are the number plates visible then?
- What model GPS tracker did Gondal have, was is a removable / cigarette lighter model? Pic please?
- There's a fairly good chance that the guilty person's house is at one of those turn-around way-points on the GPS tracks
- Which employee/s signed in to work just after the time the Q7 reached back to the workshop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy View Post
....and the information given in the press dont match at all.
I haven't read the press article -- but i think we all know we should take whats written in the papers with a pinch of salt!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick5490 View Post
What nailed it was receiving a call from Techno-Purple asking if we would like to install GPS trackers on BMW's
I think thats just them making hay while the sun shines. Nothing wrong with it. They could try selling the devices to Audi as well right now!

[If they wanted to use this as a publicity tactic, why on earth would they choose to malign Audi in the process. They would just fake a "theft" and then just recover the car while the 'thief' managed to 'get away'.]

Quote:
Originally Posted by amoghchaphalkar View Post
The Techno Purple device requires a sim card to work right? The location is picked up from cell phone towers.
No, location is not picked up from (just) cellphone towers.

It says it works on GPS and GSM.

GPS = Global Positioning Satellites (ie. very accurate location)
GSM = Global System for Mobile Communications (for sending the GPS data to the customer in this case -- also can help with coarse location for GPS lock)

So assume that its accurate!!

----

For those doubting the accuracy of the tracks, anyone with basic GPS experience can tell you that those logs look like the GPS had a decent signal all through, and wasn't "shooting around" without a signal, which would look very different on the map and be contained in a much smaller area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TechnoPurple View Post
I, Amit Jain, Managing Director - TechnoPurple IT Solutions Pvt Ltd.
Q: Does the GPS have a battery back-up, or does it require a constant 12v input?

(Also if you could answer the question about the form factor / location of the device in Gondal's car)

cya
R

Last edited by Rehaan : 27th November 2012 at 20:45.
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Old 27th November 2012, 20:15   #124
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

Unfortunately, in all this heated discussion this thread seems to have missed the best thing about this whole ordeal....

.... Vishal's comments for the GPS logs

Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker-screenshot-20121127200841.png

Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker-screenshot-20121127200907.png

Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker-screenshot-20121127200912.png

Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker-screenshot-20121127200929.png

Probably had bhel puri and gola... - this one is my favourite
Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker-screenshot-20121127200925.png


cya
R

Last edited by Rehaan : 28th November 2012 at 00:54.
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Old 27th November 2012, 20:34   #125
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post

No, location is not picked up from (just) cellphone towers.

It says it works on GPS and GSM.
I guess you have completely missed my point. My post was in response to the various posts that were questioning the accuracy of the tracking device. The earlier posts in this thread suggest that the data is inaccurate since it shows the car visiting mangroves, railway tracks, non-motorable places etc

Some of the posts earlier in this thread:

Quote:
I just saw this area in Google Maps in satellite view and noticed that most of the places the car is showing GPS markers are located on Railtracks in and around Lokmanya Tilak Terminus on non-motorable places.
Quote:
If you see the tracking picture provided it shows gone through mangrves and driven on railway tracks..do you think the car would be in the condition it was in the press picture if it was driven through the mangroves...I offroad and have seen first hand if a car is taken through such places there would be millions of scratches on the car, which is not the case with this vehicle.
Quote:
That is my point a removable GPS or Tracking device can go erratic and log things that did not happen.
Quote:
Also when the GPS loses the satellites (this is my theory and I speak from experience using other trackers) it just shows a straight line between last known location and current location.
Quote:
There is a possibility of the gps unit not being accurate and having flaws in it.
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Old 27th November 2012, 21:09   #126
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Vishal's comments for the GPS logs
Thanks for sharing the facebook posts.

"also poor guy did not have money for Toll Sea Link" - didn't quite get this. Does this mean that the Audi turned around before a toll? Can Vishal get hold of the proof for this, like any CCTV footage at the toll?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Assuming the above, there's only two possible situations i can think of:
A) The car was indeed taken out for a spin (a joyride someone thought he'd get away with)
B) The GPS device was taken out for a spin separate from the car (Someone trying to steal/sell the GPS device?)
We cannot plainly ignore the remotest possibility of C) The GPS software system (or whatever) going wrong too. Can we?

Quote:
I think thats just them making hay while the sun shines.
But this does not make them innocent either.
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Old 27th November 2012, 21:21   #127
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
- What model GPS tracker did Gondal have, was is a removable / cigarette lighter model? Pic please?
I'd be surprised if we get any info on this, because the device is supposed to be 'stealth' and no tracking company would like to get this information public.
Also if I were to place a tracking device in my car, the dash facia would be the last place to stick it (and never a cig lighter socket!)

Also from the info on this thread, the device was non-intrusive - meaning no alteration to the vehicle's wiring harness. The device would have just tapped power off the 12V outlet - could be placed anywhere in the car (Q7 probably have many 'strategic' power outlets), with a remote antenna (device hidden in that case) or with an inbuilt antenna (underneath the dashboard somewhere) [remember GPS signals are just radio signals, they can pass through plastic].


Coming to the capabilities of the device, it could range from very basic - just sending out SMS with the GPS co-ordinates and time stamp; to complex ones having GSM tower tracking (lot of processing power, complex code is required for this), logging, vehicle integration, etc. If it is a 16k device, I would think it is a basic one.
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Old 27th November 2012, 22:06   #128
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

Is there any concrete information on the type of so called tracking device installed and the location of it ? Seems highly unlikely that it would have escaped attention of the service guys unless it was hidden well. Cutting any wires to install also would have resulted in error codes being displayed during software diagnosis. Is it self powered ?

is it mentioned or technical details given as to how and where this device can be installed & how it works !?

Mods : I feel this thread needs to be renamed as there is no concrete proof that the car actually was misused, except for some so called data, which is inconclusive as to whether it was in a Q7 or an autorickshaw, could have been any vehicle !

This thread is only defaming Audi and the dealer with no conclusive evidence being presented apart from the debatable GPS logs.
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Old 27th November 2012, 22:15   #129
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

As a cyclist I use the gps in my phone quite a bit to track routes, elevation profiles, time etc.

I have used my old Asus P527 and my current Samsung Android phone quite a bit.

Only once have I gotten a wrong reading.
It showed me in a point, I did not go to. This point was about 1 km from the route I had followed.
And the gpx file when rendered on a map showed the error in a very glaring, difficult to miss manner.

I vouch for the accuracy of gps data.
The uploaded screens look genuine to me.
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Old 27th November 2012, 22:25   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nirmaljusdoit
Is there any concrete information on the type of so called tracking device installed and the location of it ? Seems highly unlikely that it would have escaped attention of the service guys unless it was hidden well. Cutting any wires to install also would have resulted in error codes being displayed during software diagnosis. Is it self powered ?

is it mentioned or technical details given as to how and where this device can be installed & how it works !?

Mods : I feel this thread needs to be renamed as there is no concrete proof that the car actually was misused, except for some so called data, which is inconclusive as to whether it was in a Q7 or an autorickshaw, could have been any vehicle !

This thread is only defaming Audi and the dealer with no conclusive evidence being presented apart from the debatable GPS logs.
Er, trackers usually ARE hidden well in private vehicles, else there's no point, init?
And if a hidden tracker was taken out, and was traveling with someone in a bag, and then put back in,I smell something much more fishy.

Most trackers work on similar principles, and there's a plethora of information available.
On the forum itself,a member relocated his stolen bolero,I think, using a tracker.
He found his car, not an auto.
And how is a gps log more debatable than manual entries in a register??
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Old 27th November 2012, 22:56   #131
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

An update........

Waiting for more updates..
Attached Thumbnails
Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker-audi.jpg  


Last edited by KALINGA : 27th November 2012 at 22:59.
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Old 28th November 2012, 00:08   #132
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

Dear Team BHPians,

Here my response to questions posted for TechnoPurple between this post and the last one:

Important Device Specifications:
In-Built GPS: SiRF Star IV with -163 dBm sensitivity
In-Built GSM: Sierra Wireless, FCC Certified
A-GPS Assisted
Max Current Consumption: 104 mA @ 12V DC
Suply Voltage Range: 6 to 32 V
Operating Temperature: -30 0C to +80 0C
Dimension: 6 cms x 6 cms x 1.3 cms, 45 gms
FCC, CE, RoHS, PTCRB Certified
540 mAh Back-Up Battery

Installation Procedure:
Standard Installation Procedures followed by TechnoPurple in 99% of installations requires splicing of 3 wires (Ignition, Power, Earthing) for any kind of vehicle from bike to truck. To prevent any adverse effect on warranty in high end vehicles, we power the device using a Car Charger Circuit and hide the device under the dashboard so that only the Car Charger Plug is visible outside and no trace of device is found. There is a backup battery connected to the device which triggers an SMS alert from the Server in case the Car Charger Socket is plugged out while driving.
Hence the disclaimer that there is a remote chance that the device was removed from Q7 but if that’s true, it has been plugged in some other car. I let the forum decide whether anyone removed the device – why, when, which car it was connected to.

Tracks:
We have attached tracks on a daily basis:
20th Nov: Bat – Mobile exits Vishal Home Geo Fence and goes to Audi Kalina Workshop
21st Nov: Bat – Mobile remains mostly in the Workshop with a small test drive
22nd Nov: Bat – Mobile mysteriously leaves the Workshop around 23.40 pm

It there is any movement reported on 23rd Nov don’t you all think it is normal to link it to misuse in the first place. Here is a device which has reporting data for the same vehicle since past many months and you have always found the data to be correct. Why has a doubt this time, just because it is at a service center?

Yes, TechnoPurple agrees that there have been fluctuations in data but as rightly pointed out by some forum members that if it was only fluctuation the movement would have been restricted to a very small geographical area. Before posting on Public Forums we have analysed each data point thoroughly, GPS signal strength related to number of satellites that were visible, GSM signal strength, battery voltage in car, heading of coordinates and time stamps. There is a definite pattern of movement which starts at workshop and end at workshop after 50+ KM of sequential movement.

Marketing Calls:

I assure the community that no marketing calls or sales proposals have been sent to any individual, dealership or manufacturer from our end without it being enquired for. Also, I am sure few Team BHPians here who have received the call for installation in their BMWs or otherwise, have received it only after they have filled contact form on website or given details on LIVE CHAT. Our foundation is pretty strong thanks to our enterprise focus and company’s future is not dependent on occurrence of incidents like these.

As far as this forum is concerned, we are here to contribute. You can count on TechnoPurple for any suggestion regarding different applications of GPS Technology, different types of hardware, positives and negative (loopholes) related to its implementation provided the information required is not any company/product specific.

Thanks and regards,

Amit Jain
Managing Director
TechnoPurple IT Solutions Pvt Ltd
Mumbai
Attached Thumbnails
Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker-vishal-home-kalina-track-20th-nov.png  

Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker-vehicle-remains-mostly-workshop-21st-nov-small-test-drive.png  

Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker-vehicle-leaves-workshop-around-23.40-22nd-nov.png  

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Old 28th November 2012, 08:24   #133
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

Thanks for the technical clarifications. I have a few observations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TechnoPurple View Post
There is a backup battery connected to the device which triggers an SMS alert from the Server in case the Car Charger Socket is plugged out while driving.
Hence the disclaimer that there is a remote chance that the device was removed from Q7 but if that’s true, it has been plugged in some other car.
Is there any trace of an SMS alert on your server for Bat-Mobile from 20th to 22nd? If not why do we still think that the GPS system has been transplanted to another one?

Quote:
GPS signal strength related to number of satellites that were visible, GSM signal strength, battery voltage in car, heading of coordinates and time stamps.
Pretty much convincing. But some members on the forum had raised a doubt that the path shown is much un-motorable? Is this true? If yes, how could that be?

Quote:
Also, I am sure few Team BHPians here who have received the call for installation in their BMWs or otherwise, have received it only after they have filled contact form on website or given details on LIVE CHAT.
If that indeed was the case, it is sad to report receiving marketing calls. Till those BHPains revert, we'll have to believe you.

Last edited by thoma : 28th November 2012 at 08:43.
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Old 28th November 2012, 08:59   #134
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

Quote:
Originally Posted by amoghchaphalkar View Post
I guess you have completely missed my point. My post was in response to the various posts that were questioning the accuracy of the tracking device. The earlier posts in this thread suggest that the data is inaccurate since it shows the car visiting mangroves, railway tracks, non-motorable places etc

Some of the posts earlier in this thread:
The GSM isn't there to track, it is to send out SMS'es to user and updates to facebook. Tracking is solely done by GPS. So the mangroves are the locations of the nearest GSM tower perhaps because it saves the volume of data bytes transferred if you send out the nearest GSM tower locations and not the route per se.
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Old 28th November 2012, 09:04   #135
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Default Re: Customer's Q7 being misused by Audi Dealership @ Vakola. Caught by GPS Tracker

Quote:
Originally Posted by thoma View Post
Is there any trace of an SMS alert on your server for Bat-Mobile from 20th to 22nd? If not why do we still think that the GPS system has been transplanted to another one?
I had the same question, until i re-read the post. The SMS is sent only if the tracker is unplugged while the vehicle is moving. So, if it is removed when the vehicle is stationery, then no SMS is sent. That was my interpretation. I could be wrong though. But if i am right, then i think this is a bug in the software
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