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Old 5th November 2013, 11:54   #16
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Default re: Blog on Terrible accidental repair experience at VW Bhopal

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Originally Posted by eq24 View Post
Yes let's try to be objective, you say that we should remove any anti VW bias from this post, why?. Not saying that to incite negative sentiments for VW but in this position finding a positive is really impossible.
Yes, it is difficult to find a positive, but there have to be proofs for any allegations that are made, which I dont find in the OP.

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And the dealer is an extension of the company itself isn't it? So if the dealer is wrong and the company does not do anything arent they equally responsible.
Answered above by VBSAN,

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And in many cases, a dispute with a dealer may prove costly for the manufacturer due to the monopoly (of the dealer) across various cities.
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I agree there are people who have got good service from VW but looks like that is an exception, the rule being clearly that after you buy our car you are pretty much on your own.
I dont think thats the case. There are several VW customers of the forum and I dont think all of them share the same sentiment.
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Old 5th November 2013, 13:11   #17
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Default re: Blog on Terrible accidental repair experience at VW Bhopal

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Originally Posted by F150 View Post
The oil indicator is faulty, how was this conclusion arrived at ?
Can you please let the whole forum know, objectively of course, how a person would ever come to know the engine is leaking oil?

Lets say if it was proven beyond the doubt that the oil indicator was INDEED faulty, what should VW do then? What should Insurance company do then?

Also, note, I am asking these questions not because I love or hate VW, but simply because this whole consequential damage dung ultimately affects only the customer, the person who paid for the nasty vehicle which cannot even announce properly that is is no longer road worthy (and any act henceforth can cause consequential damage); the person who paid for insurance to take care of accidental damages, but then even in accidental cases he has to take care of what is initial (and thus accidental) and what is consequential.

Anyone of us can be in a similar situation with ANY vehicle, not particularly VW.
Please stop exonerating the corporate houses = manufactures, dealers, service setup, insurance companies.

All corporates and concerns are there to take YOUR money. That is how they make profits.

Last edited by GTO : 5th November 2013 at 13:18. Reason: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers. Thanks!
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Old 5th November 2013, 13:34   #18
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Default re: Blog on Terrible accidental repair experience at VW Bhopal

I am a victim of a similar incident when my Figo's oil strainer broke inside the chamber even as the sump survived the hit. I had to tow the vehicle back from Kufri to NCR at my expense. Even though I had a zero dep policy, I had not opted for an additional engine cover rider.

I got the car repaired from an outside garage and am wiser on two fronts. 1) Be very careful while driving these low clearance cars on rough ground. 2) Go in for an engine protection rider.

As a customer I feel cheated that such reputed car manufacturers do not design/modify their products to cope with Indian conditions. The least they can do is to provide a sump guard to protect the engine from such hits. Some of the manufacturers do offer sump guards at a exorbitant cost ( eg the Ecosport). I believe that Indian courts should pull these manufacturers up. I do not believe they follow such customer unfriendly policies in the developed markets where the courts are more active in protecting customer rights.
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Old 5th November 2013, 15:21   #19
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Default re: Blog on Terrible accidental repair experience at VW Bhopal

First Thing first! i have taken permission from owner to post it here.

Now second thing is that, I would request members to read the whole post first and then jump to conclusion. Sad its not have been the case here.

Everybody knows the wear and tear accidental damage is not covered under warranty. Main point here is that The oil indicator was faulty hence it failed to detect the leak.

Now if i were driving i would have sensed the oil leak, Please keep in mind the owner is just a layman.
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Old 5th November 2013, 15:35   #20
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Default re: Blog on Terrible accidental repair experience at VW Bhopal

In cases like this - its best to hire a trucking company at whatever the cost, get the car to the city where he lives right now and drop it off at the nearest authorized service station. He can then visit the service station daily to yell at the service advisor!

To me, it looks the VW dealer is taking advantage of the fact that the owner is not from the same city.

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Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
The oil indicator was faulty hence it failed to detect the leak. Now if i were driving i would have sensed the oil leak,
How does one detect an engine oil leak if the indicator is faulty?

Will the engine sound gruff? Will the engine become hot, and hence show up in the temperature gauge of the instrument cluster?

Last edited by smartcat : 5th November 2013 at 15:37.
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Old 5th November 2013, 15:46   #21
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Default re: Blog on Terrible accidental repair experience at VW Bhopal

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
In cases like this - its best to hire a trucking company at whatever the cost, get the car to the city where he lives right now and drop it off at the nearest authorized service station. He can then visit the service station daily to yell at the service advisor!

To me, it looks the VW dealer is taking advantage of the fact that the owner is not from the same city.



How does one detect an engine oil leak if the indicator is faulty?

Will the engine sound gruff? Will the engine become hot, and hence show up in the temperature gauge of the instrument cluster?

engine will heat exponentially. drop in pickup, A/c if running will cut off and start dissipating hot air.

Also, Simplest of practice is, if you hit anything hear any noise, For me even if i scrap over a weird speed bump, i will park the car on side and assess the damage. Very bad practice to drive on.
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Old 5th November 2013, 15:49   #22
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Default re: Blog on Terrible accidental repair experience at VW Bhopal

Without taking any sides and being unbiased, this is what we should be doing in a similar situation.

If the vehicle under-body or the engine sump takes a hit, one must stop the vehicle safely, get down, and inspect the damage for leakage of oil, etc.

If there is oil leakage, obviously you cannot drive without plugging the leak on a temporary basis with M-Seal or equivalent, especially if you are long distance away from service centre. This option will not be available if there has been extensive damage and all the oil is spilled.

Top up and drive slow and steady. Stop periodically and inspect the oil level and any leaks below.
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Old 5th November 2013, 15:49   #23
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Default re: Blog on Terrible accidental repair experience at VW Bhopal

Don't VW engines have tendency to drink oil during run-in period or within the first 10K kms. It is usually not attributed to a leak too. It just drinks oil.

Is this a problem with only the turbo-petrol VW engines or is this the case with diesels too.

I had similarly suggested to a new Polo TDI owner to fit a metal sump guard on his new car to be doubly sure, since someone mentioned about this oil sump being damaged over an Okhla speedbreaker and he went on to see quite a few VW cars lying in a NOIDA dealers garage with same issue.

Last edited by lurker : 5th November 2013 at 15:51.
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Old 5th November 2013, 15:58   #24
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Default re: Blog on Terrible accidental repair experience at VW Bhopal

I agree with what F150 said. The only real issue here is poor after sales service from the dealer and lack of support from VW to resolve the issue.

Here are the lessons for car owners based on this experience:

1. Insurance: If you travel to smaller towns make sure you buy insurance from companies that have good road side assistance coverage. Stick to Bajaj Allianz like companies and don't go for the lowest-quote guys like AXA. In the case of a breakdown, you just have to hand over the car to tow-truck sent by your RSA and get home. From that point, the car is insurer's responsibility. Also plan your route such that road side assistance can reach your quickly if needed.

2. Under body damage is serious stuff. Quickly move to the side for safety, turn off the engine, inspect and drive off only if you are sure it is safe to drive.

3. Preferable to take engine+transmission protection add-on covers. Especially if you have EU cars where dealers typically refuse to repair and insist on replacing the part.

4. Better to get the car towed to your city of residence unless it is a minor repair.

5. Understand that repair estimation is lot of guess work at the beginning especially for damage inside the engine bay. So don't be too eager to know the estimate overnight, give them time to assess thoroughly.

6. If you don't trust the dealer, look for other dealers. Engage the dealer to repair only if you fully trust the dealership.

7. Have an option to sell the car instead of repairing for peace of mind. I know it is not an option for many but still go for it if you can afford it. If you consider the value of your time spent and other intangible things, it is not such a bad option.

8. In general, don't go on offensive from the word go. Leave scope for reconciliation :-) Don't make it "I win, you lose" contest.
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Old 5th November 2013, 16:00   #25
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Default re: Blog on Terrible accidental repair experience at VW Bhopal

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Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
engine will heat exponentially. drop in pickup, A/c if running will cut off and start dissipating hot air.
Won't there be irreversible damage to the engine right from the moment the oil starvation starts? All these modern engines have tight tolerances and low oil quantity(3-4 litres). And the turbo definitely will be gone.
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Old 5th November 2013, 16:56   #26
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Default re: Blog on Terrible accidental repair experience at VW Bhopal

Making an estimate on these kind of repairs will be a time consuming process, it needs thorough inspection and keep on changing on each steps. You will come to know of a damage only after opening something else since these are inter related. For eg, the turbo, the lubricant used is the same engine oil which lubricates the engine also. Since the engine is seized due to the oil leak there will be a high probability of damaging the turbo due to lack of lubrication. A symptom would be less pickup even in the turbo range. Dont know what to say in this tricky situation. Its very difficult to prove the oil pressure / level indicator was not showing proper data. Also I am not sure whether the owner had noticed the sudden increase in the engine coolant temperature.

Last edited by ::CMS:: : 5th November 2013 at 16:58.
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Old 5th November 2013, 22:33   #27
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Default re: Blog on Terrible accidental repair experience at VW Bhopal

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Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
Can you please let the whole forum know, objectively of course, how a person would ever come to know the engine is leaking oil?
Answers below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
engine will heat exponentially. drop in pickup, A/c if running will cut off and start dissipating hot air.

Also, Simplest of practice is, if you hit anything hear any noise, For me even if i scrap over a weird speed bump, i will park the car on side and assess the damage. Very bad practice to drive on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by risga View Post
Without taking any sides and being unbiased, this is what we should be doing in a similar situation.

If the vehicle under-body or the engine sump takes a hit, one must stop the vehicle safely, get down, and inspect the damage for leakage of oil, etc.

If there is oil leakage, obviously you cannot drive without plugging the leak on a temporary basis with M-Seal or equivalent, especially if you are long distance away from service centre. This option will not be available if there has been extensive damage and all the oil is spilled.

Top up and drive slow and steady. Stop periodically and inspect the oil level and any leaks below.


Quote:
Lets say if it was proven beyond the doubt that the oil indicator was INDEED faulty, what should VW do then?
What should Insurance company do then?
Then we may have a case and can push for warranty replacement from VW.


Quote:
Also, note, I am asking these questions not because I love or hate VW, but simply because this whole consequential damage dung ultimately affects only the customer, the person who paid for the nasty vehicle which cannot even announce properly that is is no longer road worthy (and any act henceforth can cause consequential damage); the person who paid for insurance to take care of accidental damages, but then even in accidental cases he has to take care of what is initial (and thus accidental) and what is consequential.
the terms and conditions of any insurance are pretty clear and simple.nice read though.

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Please stop exonerating the corporate houses = manufactures, dealers, service setup, insurance companies.
All corporates and concerns are there to take YOUR money. That is how they make profits.
Request to pay attention and read the posts. Good Night !
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Old 6th November 2013, 00:15   #28
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Default re: Blog on Terrible accidental repair experience at VW Bhopal

I wonder if the sump getting damaged is a common issue. It happened a friend of mine, though his oil loss was gradual, and he was able to drive it to a workshop. He was charged 40K, which eventually was paid for by insurance.

How many others have faced this problem? Can whatever was done for the newer polos be retrofitted?
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Old 6th November 2013, 09:25   #29
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Default re: Blog on Terrible accidental repair experience at VW Bhopal

@All, As a preventive measure, its always good to have an OBD reader in your car so that these kind of issues can be detected early and can prevent a huge loss.

On a side note, not to hurt anyone's sentiments, if the insurance is able to wash their hands on these situations, I think its better we create an accident by hitting a tree / pole so that they will consider as an accident.
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Old 6th November 2013, 10:00   #30
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Default re: Blog on Terrible accidental repair experience at VW Bhopal

I don't buy this "the sump slightly touched a small bump" story. For the sump to be damaged and leak out all the oil quickly, it must have hit a sizeable bump at considerable speed. Whatever car we drive, we must have a mental picture of it's underbelly and subconsciously calculate the size of a hump, bump or speed breaker and adjust our speed before going over it.

Sometimes we may be taken by surprise on an unfamiliar road, but that will be an act of God!
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