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Old 7th August 2014, 12:47   #16
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Default re: Awful BMW X1 buying experience from Navnit Motors, Mangalore. UPDATE: Issue Resolved

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Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
While taking delivery of both my Fortuner and Superb as also my Harley Davidson, I had clearly instructed the dealerships in writing that I reserve the right to refuse the vehicle if I do not find it in proper condition that is 100% to my liking at the time of delivery. Also that they should not proceed for any RTO registrations/Insurance till I have taken delivery. So I find it hard to understand why a highly technical person like you missed this point. I would never have taken delivery of such a vehicle and avoided all this litigation.
I had followed a similar procedure to the T. that is till i did the PDI on 30th July and the scratches and scuffs and chipping of alloys wasn't there. These things have happened between the 31st and 4th August, in the custody of the dealer; and they had registered the car on 4th August 13:53 Hrs, when delivery was at 15.00 hrs.

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear sunilrj - I am not surprised. I just purchased my first ever brand new car. Please see my thread, it is still in the Assembly Line section. Just don't pay anything at all till you see the actual vehicle and then if you like it, pay and get out of the place fast. If the dealer disagrees, don't buy, period! This is the only way. Otherwise, this is India. Nobody really cares!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Thank you sir! I didn't pay anything till i saw the Vehicle. vehicle was inspected on 30th July and delivery scheduled for 4th August. so payment had been released on 31st July and the morons have played up in the interim period!
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Old 7th August 2014, 14:45   #17
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Default re: Awful BMW X1 buying experience from Navnit Motors, Mangalore. UPDATE: Issue Resolved

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Originally Posted by Sunilrj View Post
I didn't pay anything till I saw the vehicle. Vehicle was inspected on 30th July and delivery scheduled for 4th August, so payment had been released on 31st July and the morons have played up in the interim period!
Dear Sunilrj - I understand but I took care of that possibility also. Drivers taking their girlfriends out for a night drive with incorrect number plates fitted (temporary number cars cannot be driven after sunset by law) is well known. Morons driving like rally drivers inside the workshop is also known. I ensured that the car was parked into a corner so it need not be moved to shift other cars. I had recorded the odometer reading also and I told them, so I passively ensured that nobody would drive it. I would have told them to physically remove the battery and lock the battery inside a room but I guess I was lucky, my guys were very decent folks, not like the regular guys at all! .

Dear all - during pre-sales interactions, please be nice and polite, but also be absolutely clear and completely ruthless to protect your own car buying experience. After all, it is your money and your car. If the terms are not agreed, be prepared to physically not buy and walk out!

After the misdeed is done, actually, in India, nobody really cares, you will be holding the baby and you will not know what hit you. Believe you me, I know. Don't ask me how I know, I know!

Let's see if this process gets recognized by JDPower in SSI. Maybe someone sitting in some cubicle in some citadel tower will read and do something for a change (poor fellow)!

.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 7th August 2014 at 14:48.
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Old 7th August 2014, 15:36   #18
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Default re: Awful BMW X1 buying experience from Navnit Motors, Mangalore. UPDATE: Issue Resolved

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Sunilrj - I understand but I took care of that possibility also. Drivers taking their girlfriends out for a night drive with incorrect number plates fitted (temporary number cars cannot be driven after sunset by law) is well known. Morons driving like rally drivers inside the workshop is also known. I ensured that the car was parked into a corner so it need not be moved to shift other cars. I had recorded the odometer reading also and I told them, so I passively ensured that nobody would drive it. I would have told them to physically remove the battery and lock the battery inside a room but I guess I was lucky, my guys were very decent folks, not like the regular guys at all! .

Dear all - during pre-sales interactions, please be nice and polite, but also be absolutely clear and completely ruthless to protect your own car buying experience. After all, it is your money and your car. If the terms are not agreed, be prepared to physically not buy and walk out!

After the misdeed is done, actually, in India, nobody really cares, you will be holding the baby and you will not know what hit you. Believe you me, I know. Don't ask me how I know, I know!

Let's see if this process gets recognized by JDPower in SSI. Maybe someone sitting in some cubicle in some citadel tower will read and do something for a change (poor fellow)!

.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Behram Sir,

I have received 3 calls and two mails from BMW India, which has taken this matter quite seriously and as per the insider information from the dealership, everyone concerned and involved have been whipped and explanations have been called for. the tension they have been going through has been given away in an interaction with a friend of mine to whom they have confessed that 'they mis-read and mis-judged me and never thought that i would take up this matter with the President, BMW India'
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Old 7th August 2014, 16:24   #19
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Default re: Awful BMW X1 buying experience from Navnit Motors, Mangalore. UPDATE: Issue Resolved

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Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
...I had clearly instructed the dealerships in writing that I reserve the right to refuse the vehicle if I do not find it in proper condition that is 100% to my liking at the time of delivery. Also that they should not proceed for any RTO registrations/Insurance till I have taken delivery...
Hello there!

Thanks for that wonderful piece of advice. . I had no idea this could be done in writing!
We too are looking to buy our 2nd car for the wife, a new car this time, and were wondering if you would help us with a sample template.

Do we need to talk to a lawyer/notary agent to get such a clause in the written form? Is there a template that we can use to draft such a letter?

If you have any information, please do share it with us. It will definitely help all new car buyers here, no doubt.

Also, is anyone here aware of any "Lemon Laws" in our country?
There is a "Sale of Goods Act" from 1930, but I'm not sure whether it's applicable in the case of buying a new car.
If it is applicable, how does a buyer use it to protect himself/herself from the obvious?
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Old 7th August 2014, 16:40   #20
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Default re: Awful BMW X1 buying experience from Navnit Motors, Mangalore. UPDATE: Issue Resolved

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Originally Posted by sourav9385 View Post
I had no idea this could be done in writing!
We too are looking to buy our 2nd car for the wife, a new car this time, and were wondering if you would help us with a sample template.

Do we need to talk to a lawyer/notary agent to get such a clause in the written form? Is there a template that we can use to draft such a letter?

If you have any information, please do share it with us. It will definitely help all new car buyers here, no doubt.
There is no rocket science involved here mate. Even a simple email with clear instructions to this effect should suffice. Also never make the full payment before taking delivery of the vehicle. Pay the token advance (around 1 lac in each of my cases) along with clear instructions of your right to refuse the vehicle in case it fails in your personal PDI. You can keep the balance payment ready in your hand and even send the copy of the demand drafts before hand so that they know that you are serious, but hand over the full payment only when you are fully satisfied with the vehicle and after that there should be no delay in picking up the vehicle.

Getting a lawyer involved would be going a little too far as in most cases not all dealers are sitting there just to cheat you. But clear written instructions and noting all these conditions on the booking form duly counter signed by the sales person at the time of booking would make them aware that you are a serious fish who would tolerate no hanky panky with his product and hard earned money. Being too casual about buying and servicing your vehicles is the root cause of most problems I see on TeamBhp. This does not in any way infer that Sunilrj was so in this case which he clearly was not by the amount of correspondence he has done. Sometimes bad luck/karma just happens even after taking all precautions.
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Old 7th August 2014, 16:58   #21
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Default re: Awful BMW X1 buying experience from Navnit Motors, Mangalore. UPDATE: Issue Resolved

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourav9385 View Post
Hello there!

Thanks for that wonderful piece of advice. . I had no idea this could be done in writing!
We too are looking to buy our 2nd car for the wife, a new car this time, and were wondering if you would help us with a sample template.
There is no sample template. Insist that all quotes, promises discounts are given in writing. i have a Trail of Mails from my first visit to the dealership till the latest mail from the CRM of Navnit, Bangalore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
There is no rocket science involved here mate.

This does not in any way infer that Sunilrj was so in this case which he clearly was not by the amount of correspondence he has done. Sometimes bad luck/karma just happens even after taking all precautions.
Right said Dhiraj. in my case, it was not bad luck as i had noticed those scuff marks on the wheels before delivery and noted them on the Delivery note and gate pass. if it had been after delivery then it would have bad karma for me. right now its Bad karma for Navnit as they have been too casual in their approach of selling a premium Luxury car, without a proper PDI
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Old 7th August 2014, 17:36   #22
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Default re: Awful BMW X1 buying experience from Navnit Motors, Mangalore. UPDATE: Issue Resolved

and to think that BMW who was No 1 in Customer satisfaction Survey Conducted by JD Power is being represented by such a Pathetic dealer in several locations!!

Awful BMW X1 buying experience from Navnit Motors, Mangalore. UPDATE: Issue Resolved-screen-shot-20140807-5.33.20-pm.png
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Old 7th August 2014, 17:40   #23
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Default re: Awful BMW X1 buying experience from Navnit Motors, Mangalore. UPDATE: Issue Resolved

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Originally Posted by Sunilrj View Post
I have received 3 calls and two mails from BMW India, which has taken this matter quite seriously and everyone concerned and involved have been whipped and explanations have been called for. The tension they have been going through has been confessed that "they mis-read and mis-judged me and never thought that I would take up this matter with the President, BMW India"
Dear Sunilrj - it is very good of the OEM to do what they are doing, I hope it is by intent and not by reaction to escalation. If it is by escalation in your case, I hope the top brass ensures that it happens by intent next time. It's a tough target but it can be done if the desire is there and the content in the process has substence. Presentations do not solve customer problems. I repeat - the content in the process must have substence!

Normal customers do not have access to anybody, they deserve a good purchase experience in a simple way. After all, now in 2014, "Customer is King"! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 7th August 2014, 18:03   #24
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Default re: Awful BMW X1 buying experience from Navnit Motors, Mangalore. UPDATE: Issue Resolved

Fantastic job, SunilRJ ! Give it right to these arrogant cocky dimwits. Unfortunately, in our country people think making money is possible only by conning customers and hoping that they (customers) are foolish and do not figure it out. We recently bought an Innova and I made sure that there are enough precautions taken but the fact is with so many precautions and constant hanging of the sword on your head, one begins to think "Why am I even buying a new car!" The customer always has to do follow-ups and reminders - never a pro-active approach from the dealer; and the practise appears to be common across the gamut of brands. *End of rant*

P.S: I'm very interested in knowing how BMW has whopped Navnit's backside and hope you have permission to post the relevant bits on the forum.

Have fun with the car !
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Old 7th August 2014, 18:15   #25
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Default re: Awful BMW X1 buying experience from Navnit Motors, Mangalore. UPDATE: Issue Resolved

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Sunilrj - it is very good of the OEM to do what they are doing, I hope it is by intent and not by reaction to escalation. If it is by escalation in your case, I hope the top brass ensures that it happens by intent next time. It's a tough target but it can be done if the desire is there and the content in the process has substence. Presentations do not solve customer problems. I repeat - the content in the process must have substence!

Normal customers do not have access to anybody, they deserve a good purchase experience in a simple way. After all, now in 2014, "Customer is King"! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Behram Sir, as of now its because of escalation as i had escalated the issue even before delivery to the office the President, BMW India. Delivery was at 5.30 pm. at 4.15 Pm from the dealers location i had forwarded the pictures of the scuffed wheels!

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Originally Posted by RJK View Post
Fantastic job, SunilRJ ! Give it right to these arrogant cocky dimwits.
P.S: I'm very interested in knowing how BMW has whopped Navnit's backside and hope you have permission to post the relevant bits on the forum.

Have fun with the car !
The Detailed whopping of Navnit's backside is being relayed to me through a few of their customers who have been visiting them ever since i escalated matters. some persons from the sales and service side have been complaining of loss of sleep and tension!

now coming to the issue, i get a strange feeling that the alloy rims of the New car have been swapped by the dealership to a 'friend' of theirs in exchange for some personal gratification!!
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Old 7th August 2014, 20:58   #26
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Default re: Awful BMW X1 buying experience from Navnit Motors, Mangalore. UPDATE: Issue Resolved

The latest Position:

Awful BMW X1 buying experience from Navnit Motors, Mangalore. UPDATE: Issue Resolved-screen-shot-20140807-8.55.58-pm.jpg

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Old 8th August 2014, 18:43   #27
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Default re: Awful BMW X1 buying experience from Navnit Motors, Mangalore. UPDATE: Issue Resolved

No resolution today except that i sent a mail which read:

Mr. Gopinath

Still awaiting your email that was to reach me by end of day of 6th August 2014.

CA, Sunil R.J. Gonsalves

and then i get this email:

Awful BMW X1 buying experience from Navnit Motors, Mangalore. UPDATE: Issue Resolved-screen-shot-20140808-6.38.24-pm.png

to which this reply is given

Awful BMW X1 buying experience from Navnit Motors, Mangalore. UPDATE: Issue Resolved-screen-shot-20140808-6.38.41-pm.png

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Old 11th August 2014, 07:10   #28
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Default re: Awful BMW X1 buying experience from Navnit Motors, Mangalore. UPDATE: Issue Resolved

and now a Serious and Grave issue:

Here is the letter addressed to the Gentleman, Gopinath Subramanian of Navnit Motors on 9th August

Mr. Gopinath

In Continuation of my two mails of last evening, where you have stressed on Transparency and concurrence i note that, the temporary registration was done as early as on 1st August, from RTO KA-51, which is valid unto 31st August 2014. So delivery was possible on 1st August itself; but was delayed until 4th August for some reason which has not been disclosed to me. when the vehicle had arrived in Mangalore on 30th July, How and why was the temporary registration obtained from KA-51; when the same could be obtained from KA-19. further why was Road Tax paid on 4th August just before effecting delivery,if the Temporary registration was valid till 31st August 2014; Specially when the sales executive had informed me that it would be done on friday 8th August or later, after the DD from Bangalore arrived. Quite a few questions which cast a doubt on the statements made in para 2 of your mail; and confirm my doubts expressed in my first mail to you, yesterday.



and my Observations in my mail of 11th August


Mr. Gopinath


in continuation to my earlier mails and the observation made by me on the temporary Registration with RTO Electronic City, when the Vehicle was actually in Mangalore, i am now making a few more observations

1. The Signature on the Invoices, Debit Note and the Signature of the RTO on the Temporary Registration Certificate appears to be the same. is the Person / Cashier/ accountant of Navnit Motors who is signing the invoices employed by the RTO department or is the RTO working for Navnit Motors ? i am sending a copy of the TR certificate to RTO, Electronic City as well as the Transport Commissioner, Karnataka to ascertain the Genuineness of the same. Misuse / Forgery of the Signature, Seal etc of a Government Authority is a serious offence.

2. The Road tax has been paid for VIN Number: WBAVN970X0VV11165 and not for the BMW X1 delivered to me whose VIN Number is WBAVN970X0VV11166. in other words i am driving a vehicle which has no right to be on the Roads. This again is gross Negligence on the part of your organisation. i shall not be held responsible for any fines and penalties that are levied on me for this Lapse, and all such fines, penalties and legal action shall be directed towards Navnit Motors Pvt. Ltd. further in case the vehicle is impounded by the Authorities, Navnit Motors Pvt Ltd, shall be responsible to Pay me Interest at 18% p.a. calculated on a daily basis on the sum of Rs. 39,50,000 that has been paid to you towards the purchase of the vehicle, for the number of days the Vehicle remains unused. further the EMI on the Finance Obtained shall be also payable by you, till such time the Vehicle is not in my possession.

so looks like Navnit Motors, Mangalore has gotten itself into deep sh*t. Forgery of the RTO Seals, Signing on Behalf of the RTO etc!
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Old 11th August 2014, 14:53   #29
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Default re: Awful BMW X1 buying experience from Navnit Motors, Mangalore. UPDATE: Issue Resolved

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Originally Posted by Sunilrj View Post

so looks like Navnit Motors, Mangalore has gotten itself into deep sh*t. Forgery of the RTO Seals, Signing on Behalf of the RTO etc!
Although I feel bad about your purchase and your experience, BMW and the dealership are now in some serious trouble. RTO rules down south are pretty strict!
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Old 12th August 2014, 06:11   #30
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Default re: Awful BMW X1 buying experience from Navnit Motors, Mangalore. UPDATE: Issue Resolved

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Although I feel bad about your purchase and your experience, BMW and the dealership are now in some serious trouble. RTO rules down south are pretty strict!
After the mistake in the Life Time Tax receipt was pointed out, someone from Navnit Motors rushed to the RTO at the speed of lightning and got the receipt corrected

as far as the KA-51 temporary registration is concerned, there has still been no clarification issued by Navnit Motors.

another mail sent to the dealer dated 11.08.2014

QUOTE:

Mr. Warad

Finally you found the time to meet me. Thanks for that! coming to the points raised by me regarding the defects here is a brief recap

1. Chipped, Scuffed and Scratched Alloy Wheels - Whose Responsibility and what resolution - Change of Rims with the Tyres ?
2. Mutilple Scratches on rear Hatch Glass - whose responsibility and what resolution - Change of Car ?
3. Multiple Scratches on the Right Side Running Board - whose responsibility and what resolution ? - Change of Car ?
4. Pathetic PDI and delivery experience (mutilple Tar spots on the Body and wheels) - Responsibility of Dealer . What resolution to be offered ?
5. Non Recording of alloy wheel damage, rear hatch glass damage and scratch on right side running board on PDI report - Dealers responsibility - what resolution ?
6. Irresponsible statements as regards Rusting, the BMW FS Quote - Dealers responsibility and dealer has to offer resolution
7. Rusting of Underbody - wishbones, Transmission Box, Transmission Shaft - Whose responsibility and what resolution ?
8. Not taking responsibility for the damages noted in 1,2,3, 4 and 7 above and stating that the car was received from BMW in that condition (at 4.30 pm of 4th August ) even before i had taken delivery - Dealers responsibility and dealer has to offer resolution
9. Insurance Quote confusion - dealers responsibility and dealer has to offer resolution and apology
10. I for the moment am willing to forgive the sales consultant for his irresponsible comments about the full payment for the car; the payment of Road Tax for a wrong VIN (since rectified), hurrying up with the payment of LTT stating that it is Company Policy, provided the Other issues related to the dealer are resolved to my satisfaction.

I would like to remind you that when Mr. Gopinath was in Mangalore on 15th July 2014, he and promised to deliver a defect free car to me. further in my mail addressed to the senior sales consultant and dated 12th July 2014, i had called for a confirmation in writing within a ‘reasonable time’ as regards certain issues failing which i shall consider that Navnit Motors, have tacitly assented to the same which is tantamount to confirmation. 30 days is more than the reasonable time permissible under any law of this country.

i once again state that my patience is wearing thin and at least the issues relating to the bad sales experience that can be set right by the dealer are resolved by 10.30 am tomorrow and the issues beyond the Control of the Dealer are resolved by 4 p.m. tomorrow. The Judgements in the case of Jose Philip Mampillil V/s Premier Automobiles and Another, Bharat Kariya v/s KSM Motors and Volskwagen Passenger Cars India (June 2014, MUM), Veena Amlani V/s Maruti udyog Ltd, (July 2014, DEL), Viney Sagar Sahgal V/s Skoda Auto India (December 2012 DEL) being directly applicable in this case, the District Consumer Disputes Redressal Forum / Karnataka State Consumer Disputes Redressal Forum, should have no difficulty in deciding the case as legal / judicial precedents are already existing.

further the application of Criminal laws of the country in respect to the Transaction is also possible based on the Case of BMW India Pvt Ltd v/s Managing Director GMR Projects, (AP) where BMW India had been accused of Cheating.

awaiting your reply on the same.

Yours faithfully

CA. Sunil R.J. Gonsalves

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