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Old 6th June 2016, 14:26   #31
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Default re: Fiat rejects warranty because of slightly overshooting service intervals. EDIT: Fiat agrees to help!

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
We aren't sure if the timeliness right. Only thing posted is the kms that service was done.

Service may have been done at 44675 for the 45K service but time? That hasn't been mentioned by the OP.
Yes, we aren't sure of the timelines. But that shouldn't be an issue. The service center has declined warranty on basis of odo readings of service, not the timelines
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Old 6th June 2016, 14:31   #32
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Default re: Fiat rejects warranty because of slightly overshooting service intervals. EDIT: Fiat agrees to help!

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E.g. If my first service was due at 5k kms/6 months and I only drove 2k kms, it DOES NOT mean my warranty will be void if I drove the car 7000 kms in the next 6 months. I'm perfectly entitled to drive my car as many kms I please as long as I get it to second service with the ODO readind 10k kms or less and/or less than ONE year elapsed from Date of Sale, whichever happens earlier.
That is exactly the point of contention here. The assumption is different here.During your first 6 months you drove 2K Kms and a service was done. You got it serviced because you hit the time period clause. This resets the service interval to 0 and you can get it serviced by say next 6 months or 5K kms. To me the service interval matters more than overall Km driven. The moment you hit that additional 5K you hit the km clause for service interval and needs to get the car serviced. Using either of the clause as an optional parameter to suit ones needs may lead to this situation and to be honest Fiat is probably right by their definition.
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Old 6th June 2016, 14:36   #33
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Default re: Fiat rejects warranty because of slightly overshooting service intervals. EDIT: Fiat agrees to help!

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
You've got it right. All service milestones count from ODO reading '0' and time zero (Date of Sale). If in doubt, check your initial free service coupons, they'll have DoS stamped on them for dealer's reference. I also get my in-warranty automated service reminders and the kms/date always corresponds to date of sale, nothing to do with my previous service (which I always get done early to avoid last-minute hassles).

Your first service was due on/before 5k kms/6 months from date of sale (whichever happens earlier), second service due at 10k kms (net ODO reading) or 1 year from date of sale (whichever happens earlier).
Perfect! This was what my prior understanding was until I read through some posts on this thread. MS, Hyundai and Toyota never denied us service or caused any problems when I got our vehicles serviced based on my logic mentioned above.
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Old 6th June 2016, 14:38   #34
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Default re: Fiat rejects warranty because of slightly overshooting service intervals. EDIT: Fiat agrees to help!

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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
....The moment you hit that additional 5K you hit the km clause for service interval and needs to get the car serviced.
I would love to see a service manual that says that, because I've never seen one in multiple decades of vehicle ownership in the family over different brands (including Fiat once). I may be entirely wrong or warranty terms may vary by manufacturer, but I'd like to see evidence before I draw conclusions different from what I've believed and followed for decades and never had an issue.

There's a reason service clauses have both km & time on them. As long as a customer is meeting those requirements without running foul of either, it's none of the manufacturer's business how he got there.

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Fiat is probably right by their definition.
If you mean this particular instance, I don't think so. This is just some unscrupulous smart-alec taking a customer for a ride.

Service intervals are cumulative from day/time ZERO, not reset at each service.

Consider another scenario:

Say a manufacturer offers 25k kms/2 yrs warranty with 5k/6 months, 10k/1 year and 25k/2 yr split. Assume for the sake of argument I buy the car and park it for a year without driving it much (say I go abroad) but get it serviced in my absence. If I return at the end of the year and begin driving my car again, by your logic, my warranty is now reduced to only 15k kms by the end of year 2 (as I didn't drive my first year's entitlement). That makes no sense at all based on prior experience, but I'd be glad to be proven wrong with contradictory documentary evidence.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 6th June 2016 at 14:45.
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Old 6th June 2016, 14:44   #35
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Default re: Fiat rejects warranty because of slightly overshooting service intervals. EDIT: Fiat agrees to help!

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Service intervals are cumulative from day/time ZERO, not reset at each service.
For automatic service interval indicators in cars like Jetta and others you will definitely see this in effect where the intervals are reset at each service. The days reset to 365 and kms reset to 15K.

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There's a reason service clauses have both km & time on them. As long as a customer is meeting those requirements, it's none of the manufacturer's business how he got there.
I agree that i need to look at the documentation. But i am sure its not a choice but either one of them meeting the requirement. As i said our assumptions are different and we may have to find which one is correct.
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Old 6th June 2016, 14:45   #36
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Default re: Fiat rejects warranty because of slightly overshooting service intervals. EDIT: Fiat agrees to help!

I clearly remember having seen a official circular from Fiat allowing variations (both in KM as well as time) for the scheduled services. I had mentioned it here : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ml#post3531807 (The "White Knight" comes home - BNW Fiat Linea 1.3 MJD Emotion)

As a fiat owner I can only say that this is ridiculus. I have always had the engine oil change and servicing at 10K interval and I have never been shown such silly excuses to reject replacement of parts under warranty.

Try to contact mangesh dot kodalkar at fiapl dot com, if he is still there he will certainly help.
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Old 6th June 2016, 14:50   #37
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Default re: Fiat rejects warranty because of slightly overshooting service intervals. EDIT: Fiat agrees to help!

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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
That is exactly the point of contention here. The assumption is different here.During your first 6 months you drove 2K Kms and a service was done. You got it serviced because you hit the time period clause. This resets the service interval to 0 and you can get it serviced by say next 6 months or 5K kms. To me the service interval matters more than overall Km driven. The moment you hit that additional 5K you hit the km clause for service interval and needs to get the car serviced. Using either of the clause as an optional parameter to suit ones needs may lead to this situation and to be honest Fiat is probably right by their definition.
I think in that case the manufacturer would have clearly specified this in the manual that the next count of 5000kms or 6 months is from the date of previous service but if you actually see the service manual it says just 10k kms, 15k kms and so on which is basically nothing but a cumulative count.

Likewise for the time period as well. It could have been said every 12 months after each service than a cumulative 12, 24, 36 etc which indicates its from an earlier time frame that the calculation needs to be done. This is my interpretation though
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Old 6th June 2016, 14:52   #38
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Default re: Fiat rejects warranty because of slightly overshooting service intervals. EDIT: Fiat agrees to help!

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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
For automatic service interval indicators in cars like Jetta and others you will definitely see this in effect where the intervals are reset at each service. The days reset to 365 and kms reset to 15K.
Same here.
This happens in our Polo also.
Whenever the car goes to service, the reverse countdown of 365 days and 15,000 KMs starts from that point.
Once the 365 days or KMs are going to get over, the spanner symbol comes in the MFD while starting the car.

Just to clarify, VW recommends service at prescribed 'intervals' of 15,000 KMs or One year whichever higher.
15,000 & 1year is an 'interval'. Not a 'milestone'. So, 15,000 KM has to measured from previous service Odo reading.
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Old 6th June 2016, 14:59   #39
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Default re: Fiat rejects warranty because of slightly overshooting service intervals. EDIT: Fiat agrees to help!

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Fiat India Spare Parts & Service Cost
Fiat Punto and Linea are Performance Cars with Solid Build Quality and Performance Feature

With a focus on :-

Build Quality

Reliable Engine Performance

Solid Suspension to offer best in class Handling

Premium Feel with Best in Segment Space

Fiat India Service Interval is 15,000 Kms or 12 Months and offers 2 Labor Free Services @ 15,000 & 30,000 Kms.

Know Fiat India Service Schedule and Maintenance Costs in India

Below is Service Schedule

Engine Oil Every 15,000 Kms or 12 Months
Oil Filter Every 15,000 Kms or 12 Months
Air Filter Every 15,000 Kms or 12 Months
Fuel Filter Every 15,000 Kms or 12 Months
Cabin AC Filter Every 15,000 Kms or 12 Months
Replace Spark Plug Every 30,000 Kms
Gear Transmission Oil Top Up If Required
Brake / Clutch Fluid Every 60,000 Kms or 24 Months
Engine Coolant Every 60,000 Kms or 24 Months
Power Steering Oil Every 24 Months
Wheel Alignment, Balancing & Rotation Every 15,000 Kms or 12 Months
Replace Drive Belt Every 60,000 Kms
Timing Belt Replacement - Punto 90 hp / Linea MJD - also check for Punto 75hp basis noise and inspection levels Every 60,000 Kms
Found this online. I dont know what to interpret here. To me it clearly says every 15K kms as service interval. Can someone post the actual information in the manual. Sorry to digress on this topic, but it is important for us to clarify what these terms means for the overall benefit of the forum i think.
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Old 6th June 2016, 15:06   #40
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Default re: Fiat rejects warranty because of slightly overshooting service intervals. EDIT: Fiat agrees to help!

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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
For automatic service interval indicators in cars like Jetta and others you will definitely see this in effect where the intervals are reset at each service. The days reset to 365 and kms reset to 15K.
Entirely different thing. I don't have first-hand experience but someone who owns a high-end performance car can confirm that those cars can actually adjust service reminders dynamically on-the-go based on how the car is driven. E.g. An M5 put through a few grueling track days might pop a service reminder well in advance of the regular set interval. Owners may clarify.



Quote:
But i am sure its not a choice but either one of them meeting the requirement.......
My apologies, I edited my comment while you were responding. It's not an either/or choice, but the customer is free to utilize both criteria as long as he doesn't fall foul of either. So a high-usage customer is needed to service ahead of the time clause, while a low-usage customer is required to service ahead of the km clause.

Quoting Fiat's own Extended Warranty document:
Quote:
Fiat Group Automobiles India Pvt. Limited offers you an extended warranty program for your Fiat car*. Now your Fiat car* is covered under extended warranty for additional 24 months or total up to 150,000 Kms (cumulative) from the date of delivery of new Fiat car* whichever occurs earlier after expiry of new car warranty.
Quote:
About Fiat Extended Warranty Program
The period for extended warranty is additional 24 months or total up to 150, 000 Kms from the date of delivery of new Fiat car* whichever occurs earlier after expiry of new car warranty.
I also read through a Punto Owner Manual online - not India-specific version so it would help for an actual owner to post excerpts from his manual - and every official document from FIAT mentions cumulative time/mileage explicitly, not split intervals.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 6th June 2016 at 15:18.
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Old 6th June 2016, 15:17   #41
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Default re: Fiat rejects warranty because of slightly overshooting service intervals. EDIT: Fiat agrees to help!

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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
Found this online. I dont know what to interpret here. To me it clearly says every 15K kms as service interval. Can someone post the actual information in the manual. Sorry to digress on this topic, but it is important for us to clarify what these terms means for the overall benefit of the forum i think.
What is the source for this info because I just did a check for the i20 and it posts similar info on a website but the owners manual gives a cumulative number of 10k,20k..../12 months, 24 months.....etc. Unfortunately, came to work on my bike today else could have checked the manual right away. This seems to be getting even more confusing by the minute.
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Old 6th June 2016, 15:18   #42
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Default re: Fiat rejects warranty because of slightly overshooting service intervals. EDIT: Fiat agrees to help!

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
Entirely different thing. I don't have first-hand experience but someone who owns a high-end performance car can confirm that those cars can actually adjust service reminders dynamically on-the-go based on how the car is driven. E.g. An M5 put through a few grueling track days might pop a service reminder well in advance of the regular set interval. Owners may clarify.
Not really, sir. The automated reminder is nothing fancy, it simply records the date and the odo when the service is performed (this is entered manually in the MID) and then reminds you before the next one is due based on either time or distance covered.

The interval definition makes sense: Imagine if you had a 15k/1 year service interval and only did 2k km in the first year. After the service, you cannot expect the car to go another 28k km in the second year without a service. Rather you must service it at 17k or 2 years, whichever comes first.
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Old 6th June 2016, 15:28   #43
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Default re: Fiat rejects warranty because of slightly overshooting service intervals. EDIT: Fiat agrees to help!

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Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
NThe automated reminder is nothing fancy.....
Note that I mentioned high-end performance cars, not run-of-the mill commuters that have a static reminder option that's nothing more than a preset electronic alarm. Performance cars have dynamic reminder systems that are pretty fancy. Consider BMW's CBS (Condition Based Service) System. Here's an extract on how it calculates the Oil Service reminder for an example:

Quote:
BMW uses an "adaptive" strategy to compute estimated oil life based on how much fuel the vehicle has consumed (which BMW says is more accurate than tracking the number of miles driven and hours of engine operation). The CBS system also considers input from an oil quality sensor in the bottom of the oil pan. The oil quality sensor measures the electrical conductivity of the oil. As the additives in the oil wear out, the resistance of the fluid changes.......

.....As the CBS system tracks fuel usage, it deducts mileage in 1,000-mile chunks from the remaining oil life. When there is an estimated 1,250 miles of oil life left, or if the oil quality sensor indicates a change is due sooner, the service reminder light comes on, and the oil status indicator changes color from green to yellow....
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Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
The interval definition makes sense: Imagine if you had a 15k/1 year service interval and only did 2k km in the first year. After the service, you cannot expect the car to go another 28k km in the second year without a service. Rather you must service it at 17k or 2 years, whichever comes first.
That makes perfect common sense if I loved my car (no doubt), but warranty documentation does not mention individual intervals explicitly, it only says my warranty is valid for a cumulative amount of time/kms as long as I meet service requirements.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 6th June 2016 at 15:33.
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Old 6th June 2016, 15:29   #44
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Default re: Fiat rejects warranty because of slightly overshooting service intervals. EDIT: Fiat agrees to help!

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
Entirely different thing. I don't have first-hand experience but someone who owns a high-end performance car can confirm that those cars can actually adjust service reminders dynamically on-the-go based on how the car is driven. E.g. An M5 put through a few grueling track days might pop a service reminder well in advance of the regular set interval. Owners may clarify.
Regarding the duration of service intervals, as mentioned by few already, it is 15K/1Y, 30K/2Y, 45K/3Y. But if 15K service is done at 10K then the next one should be done at 25K or within a year from the date of last servicing. Basically the duration between two servicing will have to be 15K Kms or 1 year whichever comes earlier.

And if you don't do it at 25K Kms in the above scenario, then you are not meeting the warranty conditions.
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Old 6th June 2016, 15:34   #45
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Default re: Fiat rejects warranty because of slightly overshooting service intervals. EDIT: Fiat agrees to help!

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
I have never seen a factory manual that counts scheduled service intervals from previous service. They all begin counting from ZERO on the clock and odo, and go upto whatever the warranty period is, not resetting count at every service. Of course there are high-end cars with smart on-board diagnostics that adjust service reminders based on how the car is driven, but that's irrelevant here.
VW has this system on its lowest end cars; my Vento has it. The MID starts reminding you of the first impending service inspection at 15,000 km/1 year and after that it is 15,000 km/1 year from the km/time of the first service, and so on.

Even in such a case, the grounds for refusal are quite ridiculous. You typically call the service centre when you start getting the alerts/ your car reaches the 15,000/1 year mark after its last service and by the time you get an appointment and bring your car in, naturally a bit more miles may have been crunched. Are you supposed to put your car on ice to comply with the service schedule?

For example: VW Pune West typically has a 2-3 week waiting period for a service appointment. That's over 1000 km given my current run rate. I haven't had anyone splitting hairs with me over whether my car is 500 over or 90 under or whatever. The only time I was faced with a comparable situation is when I wanted to do a 2,000 km road trip with 11,000 km on the odo. Checked with them and they insisted that I should come in for a courtesy check-up but did the actual service only when it was due. I thought that made sense since the margin was still 2,000 km even after the road trip.

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Originally Posted by sukrit7 View Post
Surprisingly, I had a trouble free time with warranty. I think a lot depends on the dealer too. Oberoi (though it no longer exists) was brilliant!
Is that why it no longer exists?
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