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Old 12th October 2016, 10:41   #16
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Default Re: Lakshmi Ford (Guntur) damages customer's EcoSport

Ford should make the dealer repair the car, provide the customer with a replacement car till the repairs are done and deduct some points/penalize the dealer so that they learn something from this incident and be careful from next time around.

Those of you who say, accidents do happen and can happen...yes, that is right, especially if the customer car is driven in that manner by the mechanic/trainee. Have you seen them driving?
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Old 12th October 2016, 12:52   #17
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Default Re: Lakshmi Ford (Guntur) damages customer's EcoSport

I remember one more incident of an Ecosport meeting a similar fate, not too long ago. And what Ford did offer to the customer was quite a satisfactory solution. I believe a price agreed up on the old car and a discount on a new Ford.

A similar solution here should do good.

The pickup and drop is a service provided by the dealers and always comes with the risk of car being damaged. Customer was aware of the risk he is taking when he handed over the keys to his car to the driver.
Now that the unfortunate incident has happened, he should sit on the table, discuss his options, bargain and then settle in for one of the options.
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Old 12th October 2016, 14:54   #18
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Default Re: Lakshmi Ford (Guntur) damages customer's EcoSport

I am unable to open the FB page but did the driver hit another car or something else? If it was another vehicle did that vehicle owner ask for damages?

While Ford might not have any responsibility in this directly, they can indirectly surely help make a customer smile and take the dealer to task. Here what we have on hand is an almost new car and anyone is bound to feel bad about it. I am not sure why we say asking for a new car is not reasonable? Given the amount of damage, this car will most likely never even be close to stock and problems will keep cropping up every now and then. Adding to it, given the accident, the resale value will drastically reduce as and when the owner plans to sell it.

These dealers get an undertaking signed (on a normal piece of paper and not a stamp paper, so not sure of its legal validity) saying that we are getting it serviced it at our risk but on the other side when we go for a TD, they also get another undertaking signed saying that any damaged during the test drive will be paid for by the driver. Hypocrisy at its best!!! Why the dual standards? When the vehicle is theirs and the driver damages, the driver pays, but then the vehicle is ours and the driver theirs, the vehicle owner pays? I feel this undertaking is nothing but bull crap and if challenged in the court of law will be squashed down like the "Handling Charges" these dealers used to charge which was later turned down by SC.

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Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post
I remember one more incident of an Ecosport meeting a similar fate, not too long ago. And what Ford did offer to the customer was quite a satisfactory solution. I believe a price agreed up on the old car and a discount on a new Ford.

The pickup and drop is a service provided by the dealers and always comes with the risk of car being damaged. Customer was aware of the risk he is taking when he handed over the keys to his car to the driver.
Now that the unfortunate incident has happened, he should sit on the table, discuss his options, bargain and then settle in for one of the options.
The link to that incident is provided in the posts earlier. In that case the car was 30k run and even the damages were not so bad IIRC

If I go by the logic you present, then the dealer cannot be held responsible for anything because the moment you had over the car keys to them, even at the service center, the risks there are numerous including theft, damaged car because of say a roof collapse (a skoda superb met with this fate and has a thread on the forums), replacing of original with fake parts etc. The list is endless. Hopefully there was no loss of life in this case. What would we say if the case was otherwise?
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Old 12th October 2016, 15:08   #19
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Default Re: Lakshmi Ford (Guntur) damages customer's EcoSport

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Originally Posted by centaur View Post
If I go by the logic you present, then the dealer cannot be held responsible for anything because the moment you had over the car keys to them, even at the service center, the risks there are numerous including theft, damaged car because of say a roof collapse (a skoda superb met with this fate and has a thread on the forums)
That indeed is correct. Dealer is not responsible here. Ask them to give you a guarantee of car being safe in their driver's hand, in writing, and they will flatly refuse to provide the service on these terms and ask you to bring the car yourself.
But we, on the other hand, do hand over our cars knowing the liability in case of damage by the driver is ours, since the asset is ours.

What would be the reaction if the car was say 4 years old and 50k run?

What Ford did earlier to the 30k run car was a goodwill gesture. Ford was not legally bound to compensate.

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replacing of original with fake parts etc. The list is endless.
Two different things. What you refer here is malpractice/fraud and dealer will and should be held liable for it.

Quote:
Hopefully there was no loss of life in this case. What would we say if the case was otherwise?
This is exactly why its best to drive the car to the A.S.S. ourself, instead of handing it over to an unknown driver.

Last edited by vinit.merchant : 12th October 2016 at 15:09.
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Old 12th October 2016, 15:39   #20
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Default Re: Lakshmi Ford (Guntur) damages customer's EcoSport

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Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post
That indeed is correct. Dealer is not responsible here. Ask them to give you a guarantee of car being safe in their driver's hand, in writing, and they will flatly refuse to provide the service on these terms and ask you to bring the car yourself.
But we, on the other hand, do hand over our cars knowing the liability in case of damage by the driver is ours, since the asset is ours.
I am sorry but I beg to differ here. I can understand not blaming the dealer for something not in their control like floods, earthquakes etc but somethings which is within their control, surely they are ones to be blamed for. We hand over our cars for service assuming that the dealer will take some bare minimum care of the car else all of us are better of servicing the cars at our homes.

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Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post
What would be the reaction if the car was say 4 years old and 50k run?

What Ford did earlier to the 30k run car was a goodwill gesture. Ford was not legally bound to compensate.
Two different things. What you refer here is malpractice/fraud and dealer will and should be held liable for it.
The scenario would change a lot then and in that case probably a different arrangement would have been worked out.

Completely agree with you on the second point and even the third point except that in the third one also is a risk of giving a car at a dealership for service even if categorized as fraud.

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Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post
This is exactly why its best to drive the car to the A.S.S. ourself, instead of handing it over to an unknown driver.
IN this very thread itself, a bhpian has posted about an experience where his Scross was damaged in the service center when being taken for a wash. For this very reason I say that just driving to the service center does not ascertain that your car wont be damaged and that going by what you say, we should be servicing our cars at home or be ready to risk getting returned damaged cars (if you are one of the chosen few unlucky ones that is)

Last edited by centaur : 12th October 2016 at 15:40. Reason: spelling mistake
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Old 12th October 2016, 16:01   #21
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Default Re: Lakshmi Ford (Guntur) damages customer's EcoSport

My point to drive ourself to the A.S.S. was with regards to the driver accidentally harming a human. We all know how people drive cars that do not belong to them. It is no secret and the person handing his car to a driver for pick up and drop ought to know this fact.
A car can after all be replaced.

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Originally Posted by centaur View Post
IN this very thread itself, a bhpian has posted about an experience where his Scross was damaged in the service center when being taken for a wash. For this very reason I say that just driving to the service center does not ascertain that your car wont be damaged and that going by what you say, we should be servicing our cars at home or be ready to risk getting returned damaged cars (if you are one of the chosen few unlucky ones that is)
What can I say. Its life, and it happens. Thats why these are called accidents.
Life is not always fair.
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Old 12th October 2016, 18:35   #22
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Default Re: Lakshmi Ford (Guntur) damages customer's EcoSport

At least 4-5 people in my Facebook friend list have shared this post. It currently has more than 20k likes and innumerable comments. If even 1% of them decide to not buy Ford cars now or in the future, it will be a financial loss to Ford much more than the cost price of an EcoSport. Not so much for the dealer since only a handful people might be directly near the dealership, but on a pan India basis will hurt Ford and its dealers. So rather than relying on dealer to solve the issue, Ford should take suo moto cognizance and promptly resolve this.
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Old 12th October 2016, 19:30   #23
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Default Re: Lakshmi Ford (Guntur) damages customer's EcoSport

I think in this kind of situations companies like Ford need to understand that

1. potential bad publicity (negligence, by you or your agents) is far more costly in the long run than satisfying the customer and closing the case
2. this is not a regular business negotiation where you try to drive up your business bargaining expertise to minimize the upfront monetory costs. At the end of the day if you saved a lakh or two in the bargain it may still prove costly later. Thing to remember is that you have a shell shocked customer who gave his car to the company workshop and thus has a sudden depletion of faith on your systems after such an irresponsible incident by your agents. Any persuasive negotiations will bring in far stronger response from him and in turn from so many others who are watching the drama unfold on the social media

In my opinion a middle ground exists. How about Ford asking the dealer to first bring the car back to its pristine shape either at the dealership's cost (to be inspected by Ford to ensure no cost cutting) or else by claiming the customer insurance but at the same time paying for the claim payout shortfall as well as making good the lost NCB for the next and subsequent years till the NCB catches up with the current NCB (in this case only first year NCB).

Post the repair of the car if the customer wants to not retain the repaired car give him a few choices like

1. Buy back the car at a fixed price agreeable to both (based on the depreciated value after a year of an otherwise accident-free car)

2. Let the customer sell off the car against the best possible offer that he/she can get and then make good the shortfall from the agreed price as per point 1 above

Whether Ford bears the above cost themselves or make the dealer pay is up to them but they need to decide that and implement themselves.

Both parties will have to agree to bend a little since this is an accident (no one does it knowingly) but nonetheless one that happened at the authorized dealer's negligence and hence Ford needs to agree to get involved. This is not something where they can keep themselves off at an arm's length.
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Old 13th October 2016, 01:18   #24
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Default Re: Lakshmi Ford (Guntur) damages customer's EcoSport

Well i respectfully disagree with everyone who says its unreasonable for the customer to demand a new car. Keep in mind, this is a 3000 km driven car which was sold less than a half year ago. Y'all reading this? 3000 kms on ODO under 6 months. So apparently this Mr. Harish Kara took this car to the service centre. Some problems and service guys say they'll have a look and sort it out. And then BAAAM. You all have seen how the car looks, that baby looks nearly totalled. It'll definitely have rattles and niggles throughout its life span. Is that a consequence you would want to live with?

See if i buy a Ferrari today. Not just any Ferrari. I buy the La Ferrari. So its a 1 of 499. 12 minutes out the showroom i crash it. I crash it so bad, it absolutely totals right here on the road in front of the showroom. Thats okay by me, cause i did that. I screwed the pooch. The consequences lie solely on me. Not anyone else. But would you, anyone out here, be okay with a service centre guy doing this? I mean I'm a pretty reasonable guy, so if he like scratched the door or completely blew it out, id be like okay. Thats fixable right from the factory. If the windows and the roof and the windshield is all cracked, its still fine. But this baby has been beat up pretty badly. This one will have issues through out. They estimated 2 lakhs for fix up. Really? y'all know how much 2 lakhs cover in a 10 lakh vehicle? Thats a lot. A lot a lot. Not just "oh okay, ill let this slide". 2 Lakhs could mean the difference in someones life and death situation.

Now as i mentioned, i seem to think I'm a reasonable person. I don't like to negotiate and settle for anything, id rather have it all but i understand its not possible for me to get what i want every time. So i sit down with these Ford dealers/service centre. The ones who wrecked my hypothetical car. This hypothetical car is that of Mr Harish Kara. So a 4 month old, 3000 km out the showroom. The only possible compromise i will come up to, is this.
The car, pre accident gets evaluated. So i take about a 10-15% depreciation hit So in a 10 lakh car thats about 100,000 to 150,000. I mean heck, ill even let a 20% depreciation slide. So about 8 to 9 lakhs. That is the price these service centre guys take it back at. So i effectively lose 1-2 lakhs over night. But that is me. Someone whose completely okay with a lakh or 2 of losses. But would someone else be? Would Mr. Harish be? What if 1-2 lakhs is what he makes in 5 months. What if 1-2 lakhs means his daughter can shift from public to private coaching? Or mean that he can save his or someone else's life with that money. That is a big ask. Even bigger sum to some.

However, all what I've ranted on about is an ethical approach needs to be taken from Ford. This is not a 5 year old, 100,000 km driven Ecosport. This is effectively brand new. Even if they agree to pay up the cost for the repair, ill never take this car back. And why would Mr Harish too. Thats plain stupidity in my eyes. I mean if it were me, id take all the lawyers at my disposal and tear Ford a new one. I don't even get how they can just wash their hands off this clean like that. That is just unethical. I was in the market for an SUV, and now it seems the Endeavour will be given the miss from me. First the dealer attitude is just too casual. They aren't even interested. Its almost as if they feel they own this out here, where in fact the customers run the show. I've said this before on this very forum, Ford could and probably still could take the game away from MSIL. They could not only surpass the 20 lakh bridge and cars within this budget but even take over in the 40-50 lakh market. But such instances need to be sorted out. This is completely unacceptable in my eyes. Though perhaps the only option here in a legal sense would be look over all the documents. Insurance papers, terms of sale, term of service and all that. From then on a legal issue can follow. But ethically, completely unacceptable. Id buy a spot in front of the Ford Showroom/Service centre and display this car there so everyone knows the incompetence and unprofessionalism that has been displayed by these arrogant so called personnel. Calling themselves professionals and taking us for banter.

Last edited by mijnoirhammer67 : 13th October 2016 at 01:24.
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Old 13th October 2016, 19:03   #25
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Default Re: Lakshmi Ford (Guntur) damages customer's EcoSport

Until a new law is drafted to address all the gaps in the current system, we have to operate within the existing framework.
One needs to remember the concept of depreciation. All insurance policies are defined based on depreciation. Unless you have zero depreciation and restore to invoice value addon, depreciation is the fact of life. We can get emotional about depreciation loss but facts cannot be changed, unless there is a new framework, which says dealers or manufacturer has to replace the car with brand new car in case of any untoward incident .

The customer has to fight till he gets a satisfactory solution, and what is a satisfactory solution depends on person to person.

But demanding for a new car without paying anything extra is an unrealistic expectation. If one has the time and inclination they can try the courts for fulfilling this expectation.

Last edited by F150 : 13th October 2016 at 19:04.
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Old 13th October 2016, 19:47   #26
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Default Re: Lakshmi Ford (Guntur) damages customer's EcoSport

I don't understand why it's unreasonable to demand a new car. But when it happens to our 3000Km run car bought with our hard earned money, it becomes very reasonable. Also, saying it could've happened to the car in the hands of the owner is as logical as a stranger beating some kid on the street and saying "he would've got beaten anyway by his dad." - see there's a difference.
Also, Ford Ecosport or BMW or Maruti Alto, it doesn't matter. It's our hard earned money. Period.

Last edited by Torqy : 13th October 2016 at 19:49.
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Old 14th October 2016, 09:03   #27
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Default Re: Lakshmi Ford (Guntur) damages customer's EcoSport

We have been signing this disclaimer letter from the dealer that they are not responsible for any damages caused by them in their premises. Don't we need to change that? A change.org petition or a letter to the transport ministry suggesting this change is something we should do?
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Old 14th October 2016, 09:27   #28
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Default Re: Lakshmi Ford (Guntur) damages customer's EcoSport

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Originally Posted by chakri400 View Post
We have been signing this disclaimer letter from the dealer that they are not responsible for any damages caused by them in their premises. Don't we need to change that? A change.org petition or a letter to the transport ministry suggesting this change is something we should do?
Its definitely the service center responsibility, once they take in a car for service. I always make it clear to them that there are no known damages. In fact, all service centers do have a picture of a car (on the job card) on which they mark any scratches and dents. This is to provide a clear demarc.

However, when a problem arises, the A.S.S does wash their hands off, similar to my case at the Holiday Inn Express, OMR, Chennai and the loss was solely on me.

The laws are never in favor of the customer or end-user.

Last edited by nitinbose : 14th October 2016 at 09:28.
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Old 14th October 2016, 09:50   #29
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Default Re: Lakshmi Ford (Guntur) damages customer's EcoSport

Its not everyday that you buy a 10 lakh car. It takes a lot of effort for most of us to save up and buy such a car. Totally unfortunate how reckless such drivers handle others hard earned assets. For the SA / driver, its just another car. But for me and you, its a lot more. I really hope Ford India steps in and fixes the damage to the owner and itself soon. This is definitely not the first time dealers are causing major damage, we have an example in the forum itself recently. I definitely am not in favor of repairing the car. An accident car is an accident car. When I am shopping for a used example, I would definitely walk away from an accident damaged vehicle. And this is no small mishap here.

Ideally I would like the dealer to bear the entire expense and give the customer a new car. This would definitely server as a reminder to other dealers. If the dealer goes scott free here, God save other Ford owners and their vehicles. And now, I am even scared to even let the dealer take the car for a test drive!

I do have faith in Ford regarding this. They have stepped in quite a lot of times during my ownership with resolving issues with dealers. The last one being with Elite Ford, who wouldn't refund my money back despite sending repeated reminders. Ford finally stepped in and got my refund after 3 months!

Last edited by glenmz : 14th October 2016 at 09:53.
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Old 14th October 2016, 10:14   #30
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Default Re: Lakshmi Ford (Guntur) damages customer's EcoSport

My point is simple i.e When we handover the car to anyone in our circle be it friends, family,colleagues,driver etc, we have considered the risk element and taken the same. If anyone had damaged the car, we would have at most asked them to get it repaired at their cost and not asked for a new car. In a similar way, we have handed the car to the dealer despite knowing very well that there is a risk associated with it.
I would agree with almost all options except for a brand new car.
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