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Old 22nd October 2016, 20:04   #46
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Default re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

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Originally Posted by bblost View Post
I don't understand how anyone feels that the showroom is liable for anything.
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
I've been watching this thread all the while, and everyone including the OP seem to be stuck on the assumption that the turbo went bust.
=======
There's more to this smoky/oily saga than meets the eye...
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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
I agree.

From what we have heard of the entire incident, the car is still functional. It's not certified as a total loss or has ended up totaled, right?
============
Like SS said, we need plenty of other facts to ascertain exactly who's at fault here.
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Originally Posted by vibbs View Post
I do not understand what support you expect. F
=========
For a neutral observer, it is highly improbable that a well maintained stock car had its Turbo busted with just 15 minutes of spirited test driving.
Ok let me become the devil's advocate.

1- Majority of normal Indians who walk into a showroom, especially a premium one like Nexa will not think twice before handing over the keys to an evaluator. I am not talking about a car passionate Team BHP member here

2- If the car had met with an accident, would you all feel the same? I hand over the car to an evaluator, I expect it to be returned in same shape. It doesn't matter if it is dented or blown turbo, you break it - you fix it. I would expect that from anyone who takes my stuff. That is decency.

3- But my major gripe is none of the above, it is the ATTITUDE! You pitch this whole Nexa thing to be a premium experience, least you can do is immediately apologise and offer some basic help (say tow) to a nearest workshop. Doesn't Nexa have an RSA vehicle?

Yes the aggrieved party might have posted with a strong title but that does not let Nexa off the hook. How much would it have taken to offer an apology, a cab to get home and tow to the garage? Won't any normal person calm down and will carry a slightly positive outlook towards Nexa?

Hopefully they will do better when they get in touch with this individual.

EDIT: To evaluate a car you DON'T need to rev it hard or drive rash, a half decent service engineer can figure out issues with just a normal drive around the block.

Last edited by Jaggu : 22nd October 2016 at 20:06.
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Old 22nd October 2016, 20:19   #47
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Default re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

I've realised that this can be argued to the end of the world and back with no one wiser at any point of time.

Simple facts:

1. Yes the car is old, and no it had no performance issues till the point it did.
2. It is obviously possible that ageing turbos can give up randomly (which I've just learnt post reading all that has been posted.
3. Legally I can probably do squat (which I wasn't planning to anyway)

Having had the pleasure of working with some of the best (and worst) brands in my career, I have learnt that the ONE basic tenet of building a GREAT brand vs. otherwise is the quality of service.

Accidents happen. Hair is found in five star restaurant food, marquee brand automobiles experience engine failure. The best of products malfunction when they are brand new. Hell, this is a car with 1,18,000 Kms on it.

So yes. All those who are saying that the brand owes me nothing are correct. I am sure we ALL have seen shops with signs saying "Goods once sold, will not be returned". We all have seen people not getting reimbursed for their loss basis the smallest of technicalities.

Why am I so angry in that case?

If you refer to my original post, you will read that I avoided stepping into a Maruti Suzuki dealership since I don't consider that brand premium. The reason I stepped into Nexa was that I considered it otherwise. Which is, the convenience of a Maruti Suzuki and the service standards of a high end brand.

I have not complained once about the sales process, where I found the staff to be courteous.

I have complained about the fact that while being fully aware of the age of the car, the person pushed it like he did. I have complained about the fact that the person parked the car a good 50 meters away from me when he realised that the turbo had conked off, told me "your turbo is about to conk off", did not tell me that it had when I was driving off and realised something was amiss. He basically let me head off from the showroom, knowing well that the car is definitely going to give me trouble. Not for a moment he thought "maybe I shouldn't do something that may end up with these guys stranded in the middle of the road". I AM complaining about the fact that when I asked the manager for assistance post the initial fiasco, there came NONE.

Great / premium brands and their employees do NOT behave like that.

They go out of their way to keep a customer / potential customer happy. Let alone an aggrieved one. Most of us have read about the importance of customer retention and anyway (I have two more Marutis in my house).

So yes, Nexa can ask me to sod off, saying that they owe me nothing. What will they lose? I won't buy their products? Won't let my family and friends buy them? Try and influence my network not to either? What is that? 10, maximum 20 sales?
Peanuts for big brands.

However, if they were aspiring to become a great brand, they wouldn't let me stay aggrieved. Especially so, since the damage happened when the car was in their custody. Given that my fasting wife and me were left to our own ends in the middle of the road, on a festival. They would make sure that not only do I leave this episode behind me minus a nasty flavour, but I actually advocate FOR the brand. They would make sure, that there would be a person like me on a thread like this, saying "but i've had a wonderful experience with the brand, I swear by it. Let me help you sort your issues out".

That would be the making of a premium brand.

I have now consumed myself with this episode for three days straight and am not going to answer each conjecture since it's draining beyond measure.

I WILL update the community as and when something moves forward, and would thank you for any support that comes my way.

Thanks a lot guys!

Aditya
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Old 22nd October 2016, 20:28   #48
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Default re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Ok let me become the devil's advocate.

3- But my major gripe is none of the above, it is the ATTITUDE!
...least you can do is immediately apologise and offer some basic help (say tow) to a nearest workshop. Doesn't Nexa have an RSA vehicle?

Yes the aggrieved party might have posted with a strong title but that does not let Nexa off the hook. How much would it have taken to offer an apology, a cab to get home and tow to the garage? Won't any normal person calm down and will carry a slightly positive outlook towards Nexa?
Devil's advocate indeed!

An apology would be tantamount to a frank admission of guilt by the Nexa management. Not happening as a first instance. OTOH, premium or not, this country does not have a tradition of trust between individuals today (hey, a lot of us don't even trust our doctors!).

Why would anyone trust Nexa people to be too careful with one's car, and why should a Nexa manager trust a walk-in customer's version saying his car was perfect before the evaluators touched it? And why should members of this forum trust the OP's version without hearing from the Nexa chaps?

OP hasn't even taken a second opinion about what's wrong with the car.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 22nd October 2016 at 20:31.
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Old 22nd October 2016, 20:33   #49
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Default re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

I believe Hyundai Engine control units record the maximum speed/rpm hit in every gear. I am not sure if they record the time stamp though. Service centre should be able to get this data. This may help identify if the evaluator took the engine beyond its limits.
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Old 22nd October 2016, 20:39   #50
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Default re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

Valid points.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
2- If the car had met with an accident, would you all feel the same? I hand over the car to an evaluator, I expect it to be returned in same shape. It doesn't matter if it is dented or blown turbo, you break it - you fix it. I would expect that from anyone who takes my stuff. That is decency.
It's different in case of an accident - because the car is clearly seen with outer physical damage. Witnesses can be called, witnesses can certify too.

In this case, it's an issue with an engine component under the hood, hidden away from watching eyes, and in what condition, nobody knows. Maybe the OP himself didn't know what was going to happen, or maybe he did. How can we be sure of this particular aspect?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
3- But my major gripe is none of the above, it is the ATTITUDE! You pitch this whole Nexa thing to be a premium experience, least you can do is immediately apologise and offer some basic help (say tow) to a nearest workshop. Doesn't Nexa have an RSA vehicle?

Yes the aggrieved party might have posted with a strong title but that does not let Nexa off the hook. How much would it have taken to offer an apology, a cab to get home and tow to the garage? Won't any normal person calm down and will carry a slightly positive outlook towards Nexa?
This, I agree with.

Maybe the Nexa team lacked some decency, or were afraid of getting involved further with a guy who's in love with his car and just saw it's turbo blow. (Or maybe after the OP and his wife drove off, the evaluator told them that the car had a sick turbo inside, that's why the OP had come in for exchange, hence any/all apprehension of getting involved any further)

Either way, with the OP's wife repeatedly complaining of feeling sick, they should have gone out of their way to extend a helping hand and do whatever they could to make the couple reach home safely, instead of leaving them to their state.

It could have added to the "premium" experience.

They (the Nexa team) themselves could have highlighted this incident to other customers and/or social media and used it as a marketing ploy to show everyone that, not only do they provide the best sales/service experience, but when the time comes, they can prove to be really helpful as well!

But why should they apologise? Wouldn't that make them a guilty party? They could have helped the couple without offering any apology.


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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
To evaluate a car you DON'T need to rev it hard or drive rash, a half decent service engineer can figure out issues with just a normal drive around the block.
True, but maybe the evaluator noticed the ODO with the 1,18,000+ kms reading and wanted to see if the engine could still be pushed to it's limits. I have seen how these guys drive showroom display/test drive cars, and now that one of them was left unattended inside a car and whose owner had no way of knowing what his car was going to be subjected to, he could have taken full liberties with it. (sort of how private fleet drivers drive their Scorpios!)

I still say that the car's service records and it's modding record (if any) might shed more light on this situation.

As things stand, there's too many variables to cover and too many assumptions being made to find out exactly what happened here.

Last edited by RavenAvi : 22nd October 2016 at 20:52. Reason: minor typo
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Old 22nd October 2016, 20:41   #51
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Default re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post

EDIT: To evaluate a car you DON'T need to rev it hard or drive rash, a half decent service engineer can figure out issues with just a normal drive around the block.
The biggest hole in the whole episode in my opinion is that we don't even know if they did in fact revv the car hard or drive rash nor do we know for sure that the Turbo has indeed conked off. We are just assuming all that based on circumstantial evidence. As pointed out before, we don't know Nexa's side of story. Maybe its a completely different story that side.

Last edited by vibbs : 22nd October 2016 at 20:43.
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Old 22nd October 2016, 20:44   #52
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Originally Posted by himalyan_ice View Post
I drove back home at the speed of 10 kph, with enough smoke coming out of it that I had zero visibility of the cars behind me.
Also were there any warning signs on the instrumentation console while you were driving back?

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Originally Posted by himalyan_ice View Post
Getting home I realised that there was engine oil flowing out of the exhaust. I could do nothing at that late an hour as all mechanics were closed and my wife was feeling extremely unwell.
Can you post a few pictures?

Plus, as you have noticed oil from the exhaust flowing out, could be blown turbo seal or a head gasket giving way. I hope there is oil in the engine now or has it gone dry by the time you reached home? This would have caused more damage than the evaluators TD (Not that you could do anything since your wife wasn't feeling well).

Where is the car now and what is the current status of the issue and if any update from NEXA?

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by himalyan_ice View Post
The reason I stepped into Nexa was that I considered it otherwise. Which is, the convenience of a Maruti Suzuki and the service standards of a high end brand.
You just seem to hate everything about Maruti Suzuki be it in any form.

Quote:
Originally Posted by himalyan_ice View Post
I have complained about the fact that while being fully aware of the age of the car, the person pushed it like he did.
Any evaluator would go the hard way as it be so going to negotiate and get the right price according to him for the car that is bought from the customer. If he pays high for the car, he loses his brownie points so every evaluator would hit the maximum limit be it 1000 kms run car or a 2 lakh kms run car.

Pretty normal for any evaluator IMO.

It is the Attitude as pointed by Jaggu is what matters and was lost in the whole episode.

Last edited by a4anurag : 22nd October 2016 at 20:54.
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Old 22nd October 2016, 20:51   #53
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Default re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

Dear OP,
Unless you clarify on the below points you are not going to get any helpful advice from this forum.
1) This happened on Oct 19. 4 working days have passed. Why are you not making any effort to find out what actually is wrong with your car from a Hyundai service center?
2) Was your car modded?
3) Why did you drive home the car in such a bad state? That should have aggravated the damage. Why did you not call a Hyundai service center for towing the car?
4) Suppose you were taking a test drive at the dealership and the turbo conks off or similar damage happens to the car. Will you hold yourself liable for that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
EDIT: To evaluate a car you DON'T need to rev it hard or drive rash, a half decent service engineer can figure out issues with just a normal drive around the block.
A very simplistic statement to make when you are a seller. But as a buyer will you go by what a service engineer blindly tells you about a 1Lac KM driven car? That test driver guy would have surely lost his job if the issue had developed after he gave a green signal. His job was just what he did.

Last edited by poloman : 22nd October 2016 at 21:11.
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Old 22nd October 2016, 21:27   #54
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Default re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

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Originally Posted by wrongturn View Post
I am very sure the nexa evaluator must have bombed up the RPMs to maximum causing an old turbo to fail. He has to be experienced enough to understand what he is doing. High revving and sudden increase in the RPM must have destroyed the turbo, would I do that while evaluating some ones car, NO.
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Originally Posted by himalyan_ice View Post

Absolutely not insinuating a turbo change. However would ANY sensible person knowing well that the car has those sort of miles on it, push it relentlessly? I live in Gurgaon and get enough opportunities to push the car, and not ONCE have I faced an issue. I'm hard pressed to believe that a car driving perfectly would basically self-destruct with one or two pedal to metal pushes. I am absolutely convinced however, that it was pushed consistently and relentlessly in lower gears for the entire time it was gone.
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Originally Posted by gopalnayak View Post
I believe Hyundai Engine control units record the maximum speed/rpm hit in every gear. I am not sure if they record the time stamp though. Service centre should be able to get this data. This may help identify if the evaluator took the engine beyond its limits.
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Originally Posted by vibbs View Post
The biggest hole in the whole episode in my opinion is that we don't even know if they did in fact revv the car hard ...
Umm.. Very surprised to see this general trend of posts that say revving a car engine is soo bad. That too on an enthusiasts forum like this. There is a reason why the rpm limiter is built into the ECU, and it is to prevent revving the engine being revved beyond capable limits.

A well maintained and healthy engine, even if it is done 1L kms, can be revved to the redline.

Quote:
pushed consistently and relentlessly in lower gears for the entire time it was gone
How can you expect someone that buys your car to baby it the entire time? A good high speed highway drive is all it needs for a car to be on the higher rpm side.
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Old 22nd October 2016, 21:31   #55
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Default re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
4) Suppose you were taking a test drive at the dealership and the turbo conks off or similar damage happens to the car. Will you hold yourself liable for that?
Couldn't agree more. We rip new TD cars of the dealers to decide on the right car during a purchase decision process and when a prospective buyer tries to do the same we object.

Although I too agree one need not to "rip" an used car but revving it up to redline and observing for any unwanted/strange noise is pretty common and in fact required to judge car's "health".
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Old 23rd October 2016, 00:27   #56
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Default re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
An apology would be tantamount to a frank admission of guilt by the Nexa management. Not happening as a first instance. OTOH, premium or not, this country does not have a tradition of trust between individuals today (hey, a lot of us don't even trust our doctors!).
Any good or services brand would know, trust is the most important factor if they were to succeed.

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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
It's different in case of an accident - because the car is clearly seen with outer physical damage. Witnesses can be called, witnesses can certify too.
====
How can we be sure of this particular aspect?
That is why a simple apology would mean a lot. And move on.

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Originally Posted by vibbs View Post
Maybe its a completely different story that side.
Well it is a free forum, they can send an email through our contact id.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman View Post
Dear OP,
Unless you clarify on the below points you are not going to get any helpful advice from this forum.
1) This happened on Oct 19. 4 working days have passed. Why are you not making any effort to find out what actually is wrong with your car from a Hyundai service center?
2) Was your car modded?
3) Why did you drive home the car in such a bad state? That should have aggravated the damage. Why did you not call a Hyundai service center for towing the car?
Even i wouldn't move it an inch, if i need evidence. If i were him i would have parked in front of their gate and walked off.

Quote:
A very simplistic statement to make when you are a seller. But as a buyer will you go by what a service engineer blindly tells you about a 1Lac KM driven car? That test driver guy would have surely lost his job if the issue had developed after he gave a green signal. His job was just what he did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_skyliner View Post
Couldn't agree more. We rip new TD cars of the dealers to decide on the right car during a purchase decision process and when a prospective buyer tries to do the same we object.

Although I too agree one need not to "rip" an used car but revving it up to redline and observing for any unwanted/strange noise is pretty common and in fact required to judge car's "health".
He is not worth being employed at any dealership, to figure out a car if he needed to do that like an excited new car buyer, god help that dealer.

I can talk for myself only , maybe i am an exception, but i don't abuse car's be it test or be it a review, something that i learned young. I have crashed my cars, but not someone else's (touch wood), even in situation where i would never be held responsible i have kept well within very safe limits that i have been called a chicken. Again i am an exception.

Few also suggested that they would never allow their car to be test driven alone or even when they are present they reprimand. Why? are they scared their car would fall apart? To me, this is plain careless dealer action, very immature and unprofessional thing to do. Own it up, settle with simple gesture, earn respect and move on.

It is high time we as customers realised what we should expect from any manufacturer or dealership, to me being complacent is the last thing i would do if i am paying hard earned money. However passionate or car knowledgable i am.

Last but not least, forget all the assumptions and technical hoo haa. What would you have done if that is you and it was your car that leaked oil from exhaust after a used car evaluation?
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Old 23rd October 2016, 00:47   #57
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Default re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
...forget all the assumptions and technical hoo haa. What would you have done if that is you and it was your car that leaked oil from exhaust after a used car evaluation?
Good question.

Opened the bonnet and checked as soon as the smoke and smell were noticed, perhaps? Called my trustworthy mechanic if I couldn’t figure out what is wrong? Not driven off (and risk being stranded halfway home)? Sent the wife home in a cab?

How can one skip the technical part (hoo haa in your terms) and expect to sort out the issue, or come to any fair conclusion?

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 23rd October 2016 at 00:48.
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Old 23rd October 2016, 01:01   #58
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Default re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
That is why a simple apology would mean a lot. And move on.
Apology=plead guilty=pay the price. Why would they apologise for oil leak from a 1.2L kms driven car which they tested for 15 mins and was most probably might have been on the edge of technical failure? It is not like they crashed it or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
He is not worth being employed at any dealership, to figure out a car if he needed...
Well, in fact he is more than worthy of being employed as he just saved his employer from buying a potentially faulty car.
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Old 23rd October 2016, 01:02   #59
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Default re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

In a 10-15 minute test drive, its does not seem very likely for car internals to get damaged unless something was already on the verge of failure which is entirely possible given the age of the car and the total distance done. It's not unusual for people to rev hard during test drives for both pre-owned and new cars. Given how much the car has been used, it's entirely possible that the guy doing the test drive did so at a time when his luck was not running good.
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Old 23rd October 2016, 01:40   #60
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Default re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Good question..
---
How can one skip the technical part (hoo haa in your terms) and expect to sort out the issue, or come to any fair conclusion?
Aren't your an exception also?

You can do whatever technical evaluation, as if it will prove anything in Indian nexa context.

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Originally Posted by the_skyliner View Post
Well, in fact he is more than worthy of being employed as he just saved his employer from buying a potentially faulty car.
Precisely what i meant, complacent and not thinking like a customer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vikramk View Post
which is entirely possible given the age of the car and the total distance done.
So a Hyundai product at 1 lakh plus is unreliable? I truely want to believe modern cars are better off.
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