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Old 25th October 2016, 15:59   #91
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Default Re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

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Originally Posted by mangespat View Post
Here's how I see it. The easiest way to check if the airbags work is to crash a car head on. Does not mean that you should do that. Similarly I bet there are better and easier ways of checking the condition of the car instead of abusing it.
===============
I saw a different side of some of the members on this forum in this thread. The aggression, accusations and negative remarks seemed unwarranted. The guy was just looking for help and suggestions.
  • No amount of abuse could have harmed a vehicle in such a short period. Example being TATA endurance test on various TATA cars sometime last year.
  • Dealership is not bound to pay for such mechanical damages as it saved them the trouble later if they had bought the car.
  • In the end the car belonged to the owner and it was only in his interest to accompany the evaluator during the test drive. The evaluator could have been held responsible in case of accident, but a mechanical failure was just a coincidence.
  • As I see it, the damage is done and the owner needs to repair the turbo and that the only option available.

Last edited by Jaggu : 25th October 2016 at 18:01. Reason: Please avoid Quoting entire large post for short replies. Affects readability. Thanks.
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Old 25th October 2016, 16:50   #92
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Default Re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

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  • No amount of abuse could have harmed a vehicle in such a short period. Example being TATA endurance test on various TATA cars sometime last year.
The TATA endurance test was on done brand new TATA cars picked randomly from the factory. The car in question here was one that was run for over 1L kms. The car was given by the owner for an evaluation, Surely an endurance run was not something he signed up for.

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Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
  • Dealership is not bound to pay for such mechanical damages as it saved them the trouble later if they had bought the car.
A good evaluator or a Mechanic could have confirmed that the turbo was not in good shape without trying to push it to the limit and could have negotiated with the customer the cost of the turbo repair while buying it. They do this for everything else anyways.

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Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
  • In the end the car belonged to the owner and it was only in his interest to accompany the evaluator during the test drive. The evaluator could have been held responsible in case of accident, but a mechanical failure was just a coincidence.
I partly agree with you on this. It was in the owner's interest to accompany the evaluator on the TD and hence I mentioned that the decent thing to do for the sales person or the evaluator would have been to ask the owner to come along so he also could provide his inputs on the car.

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Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
  • As I see it, the damage is done and the owner needs to repair the turbo and that the only option available.
I agree with this as well however the dealer here had a golden opportunity of fixing his mistake and forging a new relationship with the owner and I am sure the thread then would have had a much different Subject.


There are countless threads on this website that are rants about a specific car brand or a dealership. If indeed the dealership is at fault then they should not be allowed to go scot-free and prospective buyers should have this information before they go in to buy a car. If the dealer or the brand has their side of the story then nothing stops them from posting here as well.

Lastly I don't intend to get in an argument but I think there is a general "Chalta hai" (Let it go) attitude that we have in India. Websites like these and Social Media helps us demand the same service from these brands as they offer in other countries. For some reason most brands are very conscious about their image in other countries than they are in India. I cant think of any of the developed countries where something like this would have been OK. This sounds way but it is true.

Last edited by mangespat : 25th October 2016 at 16:51. Reason: Error
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Old 25th October 2016, 17:19   #93
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Default Re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

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Originally Posted by mangespat View Post
I partly agree with you on this. It was in the owner's interest to accompany the evaluator on the TD and hence I mentioned that the decent thing to do for the sales person or the evaluator would have been to ask the owner to come along so he also could provide his inputs on the car.
Last month I took my car to a leading second hand car buyer for evaluation. He asked me to sit comfortably in the office and have coffee while they evaluate the car as they will take 30 minutes or more. I decided to accompany them in the afternoon sun so that they do not mess with my car. That is the right thing to do.

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Originally Posted by mangespat View Post
Lastly I don't intend to get in an argument but I think there is a general "Chalta hai" (Let it go) attitude that we have in India. Websites like these and Social Media helps us demand the same service from these brands as they offer in other countries. For some reason most brands are very conscious about their image in other countries than they are in India. I cant think of any of the developed countries where something like this would have been OK. This sounds way but it is true.
Exactly, the chalta hai attitude of the owner proved costly.
Anyways, these are my thoughts, might be wrong and definitely not binding on anyone. I would blame myself if such thing ever happens to me.
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Old 25th October 2016, 17:54   #94
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Default Re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

I have read all the 7 pages and still could not find the actual problem with the car as himalyan_ice haven't touched / is not planning to touch the car without having a resolution from Nexa. How can you say the turbo is failed without getting it checked by an experienced mechanic?

I have sold my car recently and a couple of people have evaluated the car including Maruti True Value, Ford etc. and none of them revved the car hard or rash driven it. They visually inspected the car thoroughly, checked all documents, kept the hood up and started/shut the engine a couple of times and checked for abnormal sounds and driven the car in a normal manner.

I can understand the ordeal himalyan_ice is going through, but cannot agree with him completely on this blame-game. Hope he gets a fair resolution from Nexa.

As some of the members rightly pointed out, if Nexa guys had handled the situation properly, they would have had a new customer.
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Old 25th October 2016, 18:27   #95
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Default Re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

I have a suspicion that he has worked out a solution with Nexa which probably involves him not posting about it any more, and hence, he has decided to keep mum, and given that before this thread, he had posted the grand total of 2 times for his past 8 years of membership, I guess he has gone back to his past lurker self.
His profile shows him active till yesterday evening,
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Old 25th October 2016, 19:36   #96
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Thumbs up Re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

Hey Guys,

The past week was a s**tstorm, my parents arrived at my place over the weekend for their annual winter migration .

So here is the update.

On Sunday I met with the CEO of TR Sawhney motors, who (as I believe I have posted earlier) was very courteous. He gave us his word that he'd give us the best value for our existing car and said that he'd be delighted if we chose an MSIL vehicle for our next one.
As per him it was paramount that the company stick by the adage of "Customer is king". The GM of the showroom in question was a part of the meeting, so that we could voice our concerns and they could form policies to ensure that lapses that'd taken place were not repeated in the future.

As I'd mentioned earlier, the whole process of fighting it out had left me completely surrounded by negative energy and I felt absolutely drained by the end of the third day. Also, I'd like to take the gentleman for his word when as per his suggestion it'd be best for me to let go of the car given the miles on it.
I kind of did agree with him on the fact the repairs at this stage will not help me get the vehicle to a point in driveability that I am was used to.

Moving on, I test drove three cars on Sunday evening, Ciaz Hybrid, Baleno top end diesel, and Brezza top end diesel. Found the Ciaz insipid, the Baleno absolutely fabulous (stunning in cabin experience). However Brezza was the one that impressed me the most. It felt better put together and the ground clearance has been on my mind post the recent Gurgaon floods (not that the roads are doing too well anyway).

I've decided to go for the Brezza and sell my beloved Verna to the dealership.

I haven't been able to read the entire thread, but I do remember someone asking about mods etc.

My Verna has (now that it's not working, do I use "had" instead? Can't get myself to do that somehow):

1. 15" alloy wheels
2. K&N Filter
3. Two DRLs
4. ICE with comps up front and coaxes in the rear
5. A Pete's ECU remap

ALL of the above were disclosed to the sales staff, manager, when I went in for the test drive. The same were also disclosed at the during my meeting on Sunday.

Yes. I will absolutely miss the CRAZY pick-up of my car, where it could very easily attain wheelspin even at 1,18,000 Kms. I don't think there is any other car in the price bracket that are as magnificent as the 2008 Verna VGT (not even the later 'fluidic' releases), and even though I know I'm being repetitive, it's gonna be a heartbreak to see it towed away. In fact I think I'm gonna let my wife be there when that happens.

To those who were wondering if i'd pulled off a fast one, all I have to say is that I was NOT looking at selling my car immediately. Just exploring the idea of getting a Thar, somehow finding myself in the Nexa showroom cuz no Thar available for test drive and the sentiment of "aur dekhen market mein kya hai?" "what else is there in the market?"

In fact I was looking at selling off my Zen Estilo. It just happened that my Verna was there, and I thought "let's check out the value at least".

It's not the end of the episode yet. My car hasn't been bought and I don't have the new one yet.

However, I'd like to believe that what happened was purely chance. Also, the excellent behaviour and customer handling of the CEO, taking cognizance of the fact that the car was in their possession when it went kaput and the fact that I've been told that it could've gone bust any time soon by multiple people on this thread convinces me that the decision taken by me and my wife is the best way forward.

I hope this cleared a lot of doubts. As of what actually has gone wrong is still not absolutely clear to me, but I am not willing to find it out on my own. I know jack about engines, bores, strokes, pistons, exhausts etc. and I'd rather place my faith in a person who is in a position of authority and has assured me that our best interests will be kept in mind, while staying in the realm of possibilities available to him.

Phew! Long one!

As mentioned in one of the posts here, I've been mostly a lurker around these parts. That is by the virtue of the fact that though I love watching every darn episode of Top Gear, I'd draw a blank if someone asks me how a modern automobile functions. I love driving exciting cars, but the knowledge of how they become like that isn't something I have bandwidth for. I used to come to the forum whenever I needed some insight into something I needed getting done, and move one (referring to the Bible only when I needed God )

However, please do understand that I have nothing but gratitude for the people who come here, talk about their passions and help thousands of other souls in the process. This portal was the first one that came to my head when I was firmly stuck in the s*itter and didn't know what to do.

I have no regrets that I came here with my grievance. Even though a LOT of people expressed their doubts on my integrity. I understand that these doubts come from experiences. Human beings aren't the Gold Standard of all things we refer to under the blanket term of "humanity".

For the ones that supported me, THANK YOU! You guys gave me hope at a time where I believed that I'd been messed over for good.

For all the support that I have gotten here, I promise one thing. I will diligently post my experiences with the new car (as and when I get it), my travelogues and even little nuggets of information I run into sometimes.

No longer a lurker, but a contributor.

Also, please stay with me on this thread till I get to a point where the financials are taken care of, and the issue stands as good as closed. It's always awesome to know that someone's got my back.

Thanks again!

Aditya Sharma

P.S. Please feel free to get in touch with me here over PM.

Last edited by GTO : 25th October 2016 at 21:33. Reason: Editing out alcohol and blog part. Please go through the rules section. Thanks.
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Old 25th October 2016, 19:59   #97
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Default Re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

Another one of those incidents in which having a dash cam would have helped. Glad to know that the issue is on track to being resolved.

Can't imagine what the outcome would have been had it been one of the infamous manufacturers. Not going to name names.
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Old 25th October 2016, 20:13   #98
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Default Re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

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Originally Posted by himalyan_ice View Post
Hey Guys,

The past week was a s**tstorm, my parents arrived at my place over the weekend for their annual winter migration
===========
Aditya Sharma

P.S. Please feel free to get in touch with me here over PM.
All is well that ends well, and really hope it does.

Good to know that you have also understood the reality of the situation and working towards a resolution with the dealership.

Hat's off to the CEO of the dealership, atleast he knew how to treat the customer as the king. MUL should actually take notice and appreciate such efforts, only wished the ground staff had better grip of the situation and avoided all this flare up in the first place. Truly appreciate CEO's approach of setting up a process to fix the situation atleast in future, instead of getting into a blame game towards a staff.
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Old 25th October 2016, 22:41   #99
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Default Re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

After 7 pages, we still do not know to what extent the turbo(or any other component) was damaged and whether any independent expert/garage inspected and spelt it out. How is a value going to be arrived at(in dollars and cents)? Still a lot of ambiguity here.

P.S I'm not casting aspersions on your integrity, but I feel there are a few more things that need to be disclosed.
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Old 26th October 2016, 01:07   #100
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After 7 pages, we still do not know to what extent the turbo(or any other component) was damaged and whether any independent expert/garage inspected and spelt it out. How is a value going to be arrived at(in dollars and cents)? Still a lot of ambiguity here.
You'll never know the finer details buddy. It'll not be disclosed.

The post made by OP is clear that there was some mutual understanding between the GM of NEXA and Mr OP. All that can be put is All is well that ends well
How it ended, God alone knows.

********************************************

Honestly, no offence to the OP, such type of posts where no part is disclosed as to

1) What was discussed?

2) How was the arrival at conclusion?

3) What were the actual damage to the car IF ever the car was taken to Hyundai ASC for evaluation?

4) What is selling price for the Verna given by NEXA in exchange to any new car bought from either NEXA or Maruti Suzuki directly?

If one person is ready to start a thread to get opinions, help regarding the odor being faced and how one should go about to tackle the problem, I expect the same clarity to be posted when the issue is solved. It can't be brushed under the carpet saying all is well and matter closed. Sad.

I know it is OP's wish if he wants to post the finer details or no so that there is some sense in clarity when one goes through the whole thread from start to end. It can be used as a reference thread of someone else faces a similar issue.

EDIT 2: MODS, Please close the thread. Some the issue is clear and mutually agreed, why have the thread open.
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Old 26th October 2016, 02:00   #101
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Default Re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post

1) What was discussed?

2) How was the arrival at conclusion?

3) What were the actual damage to the car IF ever the car was taken to Hyundai ASC for evaluation?

4) What is selling price for the Verna given by NEXA in exchange to any new car bought from either NEXA or Maruti Suzuki directly?

If one person is ready to start a thread to get opinions, help regarding the odor being faced and how one should go about to tackle the problem, I expect the same clarity to be posted when the issue is solved. It can't be brushed under the carpet saying all is well and matter closed. Sad.

I know it is OP's wish if he wants to post the finer details or no so that there is some sense in clarity when one goes through the whole thread from start to end. It can be used as a reference thread of someone else faces a similar issue.
Valid point sir.

1. We put our point forth that the car was in the custody of the dealership when it went kaput. There was a realisation that systems need to be put in place to not let such incidents take place. Mr. Sawhney suggested it'd be a better idea to not go for repairs, but sell old and buy new instead. Given the available options, and in light of efforts made for service recovery, we agreed.

2. Arrival at conclusion was basis mutual consent. I have been in the service industry. Stuff has gone wrong. With great brands we always tried service recovery and the happiest customers were those who understood that the service provider made an error, had faith that it wasn't done on purpose, and walked out post being served real well, and as a friend of the staff. The next time those customers stepped in, they were VIPs just because of the humane and reasonable approach. Mr. Sawhney offered excellent service recovery, and we decided to be the kind of customer he'd love to interact with.

3. The car has not been taken anywhere and stands exactly where it did, on the day I drove back from the incident.

4. The expected selling point was X (basis running through online evaluators) the actual selling point is X minus enough not to rattle us proper. Even I will never know if what I actually got was a fair deal, but I want to place my trust in Mr. Sawhney's assertion that he will do the best possible within his means.

At this point it is my choice to either continue feeling aggrieved or move on with a positive frame of mind. Choosing to do the latter. Yes, maybe I could have gotten a few grands extra, maybe I wouldn't, but (and correct me if I'm wrong) isn't it better to walk off from an incident a happy person, one who'd rather look at the glass half full?

Yes, if TR Sawhney Pvt. Ltd. would've asked me to sod off, I'd have raged and taken it to a point where social and professional networks would've been hustled to a point of a mini tsunami.

But that didn't happen, and I'm hoping to close this episode on a positive note where everyone walks away feeling good about life.

I would request the mods to close this thread once I report the settlement signed and stamped.

Let's let the fat lady sing?

Last edited by SDP : 26th October 2016 at 06:13.
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Old 26th October 2016, 09:10   #102
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Default Re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

This is another live incident, where "knowledgeable" public support has been gathered, very close to accurate technical inferences drawn, and used entirely to the customer advantage against a national brand. Kudos to TBHP.

These things spread like wild fire, not only through forums but through hearsay and discussions by the dealership staff as well, to other brand dealerships. This is starting to become a gradual but "sure-fire" trend, utilizing the collective wisdom on TBHP and creating "effective" solutions favouring customers often to disadvantage of dealers.

The dealerships are taking note, and I hope this doesn't start to backfire and start affecting even "day to day" cases not as gross as this.

e.g.

1) Detailed scans to see if ECUs have been modded : engine warranty gone.
2) Even more scrutiny of tyre upsizes : suspension, power steering etc. warranty gone.

so on and so forth
....

Just a silly thought...

Last edited by lapis_lazuli : 26th October 2016 at 09:11.
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Old 26th October 2016, 09:45   #103
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Default Re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

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Originally Posted by lapis_lazuli View Post
The dealerships are taking note, and I hope this doesn't start to backfire and start affecting even "day to day" cases not as gross as this.

e.g.

1) Detailed scans to see if ECUs have been modded : engine warranty gone.
2) Even more scrutiny of tyre upsizes : suspension, power steering etc. warranty gone.
.
If you had to claim warranty at the manufacturer level, then yes all these would have mattered. Since it is done at the dealer level, accountability matrix differs. Indeed the dealers also can refuse suspension warranty claims due to modifications to the tyre, alloys etc but at the same time should do it technically and not just by word of mouth. Imagine a customer installs alloy wheels of a different offset which protrudes out of the wheel arch, and the wheel bearings fail prematurely. In this case warranty claim can be refused.

Similarly, finding a remap at a dealer level may be difficult, but not at the manufacturer R&D level. Hence, the whole warranty system here is not a process oriented one. It all depends upon the dealer and the goodwill factor like in this case.

But with respect to this case, its good that the dealer offered to accept the car for exchange, and yes this is something not everyone would do, nor is the dealer responsible to do. Its just like a bonus for the OP.

One general thought - This was a technical issue and hence the dealer would get it repaired before selling the car. What would have been the case if the test drive ended in an accident? Or even something like totalling the car? What would an ideal resolution be? Point is, its better not to let people take cars on test drives of all whims and fancies. You dont know what can happen in a small time frame, of even two minutes.
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Old 26th October 2016, 14:01   #104
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Default Re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

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This is another live incident, where "knowledgeable" public support has been gathered, very close to accurate technical inferences drawn, and used entirely to the customer advantage against a national brand. Kudos to TBHP.
"Customer advantage against a national brand?" Wow! Do you know why you refer to a brand as "national brand"? It's because of millions of customers that decided to place their faith in them. Re-read the entire thread, you will find that MOST posts were supporting the dealership. A lot of them placing the blame on the customer (me) and quite a few even insinuating foul play (including your post, and I'm not even going to say "no offence", since I wouldn't mean it). So I am assuming that the brand has enough goodwill.

As far as "customer advantage" goes, I SINCERELY hope you get to enjoy the same sir. Maybe you'll have a slightly different opinion of it once you are in the shoes I wear at the moment.

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Originally Posted by lapis_lazuli View Post
These things spread like wild fire, not only through forums but through hearsay and discussions by the dealership staff as well, to other brand dealerships. This is starting to become a gradual but "sure-fire" trend, utilizing the collective wisdom on TBHP and creating "effective" solutions favouring customers often to disadvantage of dealers.
That sir, is the nature of social media. Let's not just single out TBHP here (I'd quote the number of impressions, engagements, hits & shares here, but that'd just be in bad taste).

Yes, social media CAN be used by nefarious elements to their advantage (the AAP case, the Mumbai auto case). However, that in most cases does not last for long. Please understand that once you put your case in social media, you open yourself to scrutiny as well. Having had extensive experience with the media, I'd say that nine times out of ten, the lie comes back like a homing pigeon.

I will also point out that big brands aren't exactly defenceless babies you've made them to be. I am sure you know of hundreds / thousands of auto journos, bloggers and influencers that enjoy brand hospitality during new launches and events. I am sure you know that pay-for-play bloggers are available in hoards and for peanuts.

Now I am not sure that you are aware of cases where someone tried to play smart and lived to regret every moment of it.

If David decides to challenge Goliath, he might as well have a very justifiable and compelling reason to do so. If not, the odds are stacked against him not only with Goliath, but also with the collective. The collective is a scarier Goliath.

Yes. People will try to go the Social Media route to harness people power, but most that do not have a case will fail. In some cases even those who do will not get any justice.

This has gotten . So if you'd want to discuss this any further, please feel free to PM me.

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But with respect to this case, its good that the dealer offered to accept the car for exchange, and yes this is something not everyone would do, nor is the dealer responsible to do. Its just like a bonus for the OP.
"Bonus" SMH

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Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
One general thought - This was a technical issue and hence the dealer would get it repaired before selling the car. What would have been the case if the test drive ended in an accident? Or even something like totalling the car? What would an ideal resolution be? Point is, its better not to let people take cars on test drives of all whims and fancies. You dont know what can happen in a small time frame, of even two minutes.
Yes. Anything can happen in a very short frame of time (and that's why you shouldn't borrow stuff from people, unless you are willing to take full responsibility of it, while it is in your possession). Now in a case of used car dealerships, if something happens during a TD, and the dealer takes responsibility for it (which, I believe is the right thing to do), it'll be written off as a loss. In business you make lots of profit, and in the process, some losses. Those are inevitable.
Now if you are making more losses than profit, it is evident that something is grossly amiss, and most such businesses shutter ops soon.

But banks make money out of interests on loans right? Please read up on NPAs in Indian banking, the US subprime crisis etc. and you will understand that like everything else in life, business has its own set of risks and rewards. However you don't stop running because you MIGHT get an ankle injury (which you will :P)

My assertion to all is to, if possible, try and appreciate the fact that forums like TBHP have grown to a stature where they can support just causes towards reasonable solutions, and not disrespect them by suggesting that they've become instruments of widespread malpractice, being used by crooks to achieve their dishonest aims.

Having put all facts, defences and insights forth, I will here on refrain from posting on this thread till the spit & shake.

Last edited by Aditya : 26th October 2016 at 15:49. Reason: Only two smileys per post allowed.
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Old 26th October 2016, 14:55   #105
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Default Re: Smoke & oil from tailpipe after Nexa showroom test-drives my Verna

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Originally Posted by himalyan_ice View Post
I've decided to go for the Brezza and sell my beloved Verna to the dealership.

Yes. I will absolutely miss the CRAZY pick-up of my car, where it could very easily attain wheelspin even at 1,18,000 Kms. I don't think there is any other car in the price bracket that are as magnificent as the 2008 Verna VGT (not even the later 'fluidic' releases), and even though I know I'm being repetitive, it's gonna be a heartbreak to see it towed away. In fact I think I'm gonna let my wife be there when that happens.
My two cents- If you love the verna that much and you aren't really in the market for a new car(not a thar), just rebuild the turbo or get a used one and swap it in. No matter what you may want to believe, that turbo would have given up in the next 2-4k kms. In your place, unless I were getting a fabulous-too-good-to-be-true deal on the brezza, I would fix the verna. Doesn't the brezza also have a long wait?

Now let me give you a ballpark figure of costs involved- In Bangalore, there are shops that can rebuild your turbo to factory spec for about 17-19k. You could also find used turbos for about 10-15k(condition unknown). Apart from this, all you need is new oil and filter. Now, if pieces of the turbo on the compressor side have broken off or the blades are broken or have made contact with the housing, you will have to do a bit more than just swap out the turbo and oil. If pieces have broken off, you'd be lucky if they didn't make it past the Intercooler.

You can easily get a used turbo at some yards outside Gurgaon.

Cheers!

Last edited by james : 26th October 2016 at 14:56. Reason: typo
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